News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[Creathir]

People, this is not a reincarnation of the Skyway. There are no buckets and the gondolas detach from the drive line. Some systems have multiple loading lines but we dont have the design available so we can only speculate.

Understood that we are talking about 50 years of technological differences, but the Skyway was a detachable gondola system was it not?

It just was an older design.

The cars detached from the main lift cable, and swung thru the stations on a separate track.

 

[marni1971]

People, this is not a reincarnation of the Skyway. There are no buckets and the gondolas detach from the drive line. Some systems have multiple loading lines but we dont have the design available so we can only speculate.

They generally do detach anyway.

So far as I know there's no multiple loading. Just one load and one unload per direction per station. The DVC station is undergoing a design review and could potentially double up on load platforms.

 

[networkpro]

They generally do detach anyway.

So far as I know there's no multiple loading. Just one load and one unload per direction per station. The DVC station is undergoing a design review and could potentially double up on load platforms.

It would be interesting to see the specifications. If you look at some of the larger modern manufacturers like Dopplemayr, they have systems such as Funitel, Funifore which can both withstand high winds while transporting 4,000 passengers per hour per ropeway each direction. Whats not known is how many ropeways will be in each direction and if they will be contiguous.

 

[marni1971]

Whats not known is how many ropeways will be in each direction and if they will be contiguous.

Three separate lines; CBR south to POP. CBR South to DHS. CBR south to Epcot via DVC.

 

[HauntedPirate]

To me, LRT seems impractical, if not bordering on impossible, due to costs. LRT needs a solid foundation, something that Florida doesn't exactly provide. Footings for an LRT line would get prohibitively expensive.

 

[mmascari]

Right, but they still need to load fast enough so that the load station doesn't get filled with cars because that would cause a stop as well. Its not like you have to move quickly, but you do have to move.

This is more related to the capacity of the slower moving detached section of gondola path.

If you dump 10 units in every minute, 10 units need to exit every minute too. If the slow section is big enough to hold 10 units, they need to transit it every minute too. But, change this, make the slow section bigger so it holds 20 units instead, now each one only needs to transit the slow section every 2 minutes, twice as slow. Even bigger, so the slow section holds 30 units, now it makes this transit in 3 minutes. The cars are packed much much tighter in the slow section, so increasing capacity adds distance very slow instead instead of linear forcing the speed to increase too.

They generally do detach anyway.

So far as I know there's no multiple loading. Just one load and one unload per direction per station. The DVC station is undergoing a design review and could potentially double up on load platforms.

This is unfortunate.

It's possible that they're moving slow enough for nobody to ever have any issues at all. Certainly nobody walking or using a stroller will ever have an issue.

In at least the building with the maintenance shed, there will have to be a secondary slower track for diverting off the main line to the shed for removing and adding cars. Things like storage and repair.

It would be a nice to have, to have a secondary line like this, that's manually selected not automatic, for guests that have particular needs where even the slow moving isn't slow enough and need actually stopped. At the station with the maintenance facility, it could even be part of the maintenance side track. But, would still need something at the other loading stations too. Little slow diversion tracks with capacity for 3 to 5 cars probably.

The overall goal should be to never stop the line under any planned use case. Stopping the main line is something that only happens when there is a problem that needs the big red safety button pressed. Not something that should ever happen under normal operation.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Even if a group took an inordinate amount of time to load, they don't have to stop the loading process, they can just let one or more gondolas go out empty to catch up.

 

[marni1971]

In at least the building with the maintenance shed, there will have to be a secondary slower track for diverting off the main line to the shed for removing and adding cars. Things like storage and repair.

It would be a nice to have, to have a secondary line like this, that's manually selected not automatic, for guests that have particular needs where even the slow moving isn't slow enough and need actually stopped. At the station with the maintenance facility, it could even be part of the maintenance side track. But, would still need something at the other loading stations too. Little slow diversion tracks with capacity for 3 to 5 cars probably.

The overall goal should be to never stop the line under any planned use case. Stopping the main line is something that only happens when there is a problem that needs the big red safety button pressed. Not something that should ever happen under normal operation.

I believe the maintainence shed (CBR south) will be strictly pull out / slot in to remove / add cars. There won't be a parallel line.

 

[Kamikaze]

Even if a group took an inordinate amount of time to load, they don't have to stop the loading process, they can just let one or more gondolas go out empty to catch up.

Well, no, they would just have a gap in the line.

 

[mmascari]

I believe the maintainence shed (CBR south) will be strictly pull out / slot in to remove / add cars. There won't be a parallel line.

When I said the maintenance shed needed a pull out, I didn't mean to imply that it would be used for a secondary stopped load platform. Just that it would have to have a way to divert cars out of the normal path in the slow part. A pull out, and then track to hold the cars into the shed, probably multiple parallel tracks and some switching all in the shed itself would certainly do this. All for maintenance and storage, nothing for normal use or guests. Presumably stuff that guests will not even be able to see behind some doors. For all of those use cases, it doesn't even need power or to support for moving the car, the maintenance worker just pushes it down the storage and repair shop tracks.

I'm disappointed that this isn't being thought of and expanded to have a path for guests with particular needs. It feels like it wouldn't take much to do this. But, then, I don't design or pay for these things, and what seems easy could add tons of cost.

And it may be that they move so slow, and with cast member help, it's not needed and is just me over engineering for a problem. If only a few guests a day need super super slow not just normal, cast member help could certainly be a way to guide them on in a normal time. After all, skiers with little kids in ski boots have been loading for years, and those are hard to even walk in.


What's still true though is, the line should never stop under normal use cases. Anyone still worried about that can relax. I'm sure the expectation is that the line starts moving in the morning and doesn't stop until shutdown at the end of the day. Barring some issue that requires pushing an emergency button.

 

[JoeCamel]

When I said the maintenance shed needed a pull out, I didn't mean to imply that it would be used for a secondary stopped load platform. Just that it would have to have a way to divert cars out of the normal path in the slow part. A pull out, and then track to hold the cars into the shed, probably multiple parallel tracks and some switching all in the shed itself would certainly do this. All for maintenance and storage, nothing for normal use or guests. Presumably stuff that guests will not even be able to see behind some doors. For all of those use cases, it doesn't even need power or to support for moving the car, the maintenance worker just pushes it down the storage and repair shop tracks.

I'm disappointed that this isn't being thought of and expanded to have a path for guests with particular needs. It feels like it wouldn't take much to do this. But, then, I don't design or pay for these things, and what seems easy could add tons of cost.

And it may be that they move so slow, and with cast member help, it's not needed and is just me over engineering for a problem. If only a few guests a day need super super slow not just normal, cast member help could certainly be a way to guide them on in a normal time. After all, skiers with little kids in ski boots have been loading for years, and those are hard to even walk in.


What's still true though is, the line should never stop under normal use cases. Anyone still worried about that can relax. I'm sure the expectation is that the line starts moving in the morning and doesn't stop until shutdown at the end of the day. Barring some issue that requires pushing an emergency button.

Maybe if you see it in action you will understand that loading is not an issue

 

[marni1971]

What's still true though is, the line should never stop under normal use cases. Anyone still worried about that can relax. I'm sure the expectation is that the line starts moving in the morning and doesn't stop until shutdown at the end of the day. Barring some issue that requires pushing an emergency button.

This.

 

[Lift Blog]

To give you guys some perspective, here is what an operator will see control-wise in multiple places at each station. The fast-medium-slow selector (top right) is key when there is a loading issue. Each of these speed steps can be set to any value between zero and the lift's design speed. The goal is to keep the lift moving at full speed as much as possible. I'd say an average day on the gondolas I work at sees a couple stops and maybe a dozen slows. On a good day, a gondola with LWI (level walk-in) never stops.

The single largest source of stops is last-second loading at door closing, which can trigger a door fault, access control barrier stop, or both. Adding a second loading area at a single station merely adds another place for these problems to happen. In my opinion, there is already ample time to load and a 10-second slow of the line for someone with special needs is a better approach than doubling the number of loading areas.

By the way, I came across this video today which really highlights the efficiency and "coolness" of gondolas. While not the exact system WDW is getting, anyone concerned about safety or efficiency of gondolas should watch and learn.

 

[Creathir]

To give you guys some perspective, here is what an operator will see control-wise in multiple places at each station. The fast-medium-slow selector (top right) is key when there is a loading issue. Each of these speed steps can be set to any value between zero and the lift's design speed. The goal is to keep the lift moving at full speed as much as possible. I'd say an average day on the gondolas I work at sees a couple stops and maybe a dozen slows. On a good day, a gondola with LWI (level walk-in) never stops.

The single largest source of stops is last-second loading at door closing, which can trigger a door fault, access control barrier stop, or both. Adding a second loading area at a single station merely adds another place for these problems to happen. In my opinion, there is already ample time to load and a 10-second slow of the line for someone with special needs is a better better approach than doubling the number of loading areas.

By the way, I came across this video today which really highlights the efficiency and "coolness" of gondolas. While not the exact system WDW is getting, anyone concerned about safety or efficiency of gondolas should watch and learn.

Quick question, have you ever seen someone drive an electric wheelchair or an ECV on/off a gondola?

 

[Ripken10]

Just to give you guys some perspective, here is what an operator will see control-wise in multiple places at each station. The fast-medium-slow selector (top right) is key when there is a loading issue. The goal is to keep the lift moving at full speed as much as possible. I'd say an average day on the gondolas I work at sees a couple stops and maybe a dozen slows. On a good day, a gondola with LWI (level walk-in) never stops.

The single largest source of stops is last-second loading at door closing. Adding a second loading area at a single station merely adds another place for these problems to happen. In my opinion, there is already ample time to load and a 10-second slow of the line for someone with special needs is better a better approach than doubling the number of loading areas.

By the way, I came across this video today which really highlights the efficiency and coolness of gondolas. While not the exact system WDW is getting, anyone concerned about safety or efficiency of gondolas should watch and learn.

I do find it amusing how many people are worried about the time it takes to load and unload. I realize that most people just haven't experienced these first hand...but if they would realize that ski resorts are a lot closer to the idea of a theme park -- guest (skiers) are not always the most graceful, because most people are not experts, moreover, they are dealing with ice and snow when they are trying to get on these gondolas at ski resorts. People fall, or struggle putting the skis on the outside of the gondola (for those designed that way) and more. The putting skiis on the outside is actually a perfect example of how long it can take sometimes. People will miss the holes (not great hand-eye coordination). Despite all of this, as LiftBlogger has said, there is rarely a slow down. One of the many reasons experienced skiiers love gondolas in my opinion -- while ski lifts are constantly slowing down/stopping when someone struggles getting on, you rarely see it on a gondola, thus less time to get to the top (plus gondolas are faster).

(and before any of my skier friends respond about ski lifts constantly slowing down - I know it varies depending on the slope and resort you are at because the type of skiiers getting on the lifts varies)

 

[Lift Blog]

I do find it amusing how many people are worried about the time it takes to load and unload. I realize that most people just haven't experienced these first hand...but if they would realize that ski resorts are a lot closer to the idea of a theme park -- guest (skiers) are not always the most graceful, because most people are not experts, moreover, they are dealing with ice and snow when they are trying to get on these gondolas at ski resorts. People fall, or struggle putting the skis on the outside of the gondola (for those designed that way) and more. The putting skiis on the outside is actually a perfect example of how long it can take sometimes. People will miss the holes (not great hand-eye coordination). Despite all of this, as LiftBlogger has said, there is rarely a slow down. One of the many reasons experienced skiiers love gondolas in my opinion -- while ski lifts are constantly slowing down/stopping when someone struggles getting on, you rarely see it on a gondola, thus less time to get to the top (plus gondolas are faster).

(and before any of my skier friends respond about ski lifts constantly slowing down - I know it varies depending on the slope and resort you are at because the type of skiiers getting on the lifts varies)

Great point, the newer gondola where I work serves beginner skiers. These guests literally show up in plastic boots they have never worn before carrying two skis and two poles and we still can get 8 people in every cabin for hours on end without a stop. It all comes down to having professional, well-trained staff to anticipate problems and act on them quickly.

Quick question, have you ever seen someone drive an electric wheelchair or an ECV on/off a gondola?

Yes, every day in the summer.

 

[Ripken10]

Great point, the newer gondola where I work serves beginner skiers. These guests literally show up in plastic boots they have never worn before carrying two skis and two poles and we still can get 8 people in every cabin for hours on end without a stop. It all comes down to having professional, well-trained staff.


Yes, every day in the summer.

I am sure I am not the only person to see someone try to get on the gondola with their skis still on. That is always a funny scene.

 

[Creathir]

Yes, every day in the summer.

Cool. Thanks for answering so quickly.

Maybe you could get a video of someone doing that in the coming season?

It might help to alleviate this fear many have about the ability for someone to get on/off a gondola with one of these devices.

 

[Kamikaze]

What's still true though is, the line should never stop under normal use cases. Anyone still worried about that can relax. I'm sure the expectation is that the line starts moving in the morning and doesn't stop until shutdown at the end of the day. Barring some issue that requires pushing an emergency button.

While true, I have been on enough chairlifts and gondolas at ski resorts to know that it does happen, and usually not for 'emergencies'.

 

[danlb_2000]

I do find it amusing how many people are worried about the time it takes to load and unload. I realize that most people just haven't experienced these first hand...but if they would realize that ski resorts are a lot closer to the idea of a theme park -- guest (skiers) are not always the most graceful, because most people are not experts, moreover, they are dealing with ice and snow when they are trying to get on these gondolas at ski resorts. People fall, or struggle putting the skis on the outside of the gondola (for those designed that way) and more. The putting skiis on the outside is actually a perfect example of how long it can take sometimes. People will miss the holes (not great hand-eye coordination). Despite all of this, as LiftBlogger has said, there is rarely a slow down. One of the many reasons experienced skiiers love gondolas in my opinion -- while ski lifts are constantly slowing down/stopping when someone struggles getting on, you rarely see it on a gondola, thus less time to get to the top (plus gondolas are faster).

(and before any of my skier friends respond about ski lifts constantly slowing down - I know it varies depending on the slope and resort you are at because the type of skiiers getting on the lifts varies)

But on the flip side I would think that at a ski resort you are going to see far fewer people with infants or little kids in tow, or people with mobility problems which are more common at Disney.