New Florida law addresses "fake" service animals with possible jail time

[arko]

But there should also be common sense limits that if the same thing can be achieved with something that doesn't involve bringing a live animal in... you shouldn't need the animal.

I can wear a medical braclet that tells someone I am diabetic, or allergic, etc. You don't need a service animal in public to bring me my meds since the dog isn't going to administer it anyways.

no diabetic service animals are trained to let the owner or parent in many cases know when their blood sugar levels are out of whack, they do this by scent and are trained to recognize and alert so that you resolve the issue before you need someone else to have to administer your meds. You see this in many cases with children and the elderly, having that alarm system in place can be a life saver. For those who control and monitor blood sugar levels well they are generally not needed, and its why you don't see every diabetic with a service animal.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't normally post, but I feel compelled to correct you on this important point. Under the ADA, PTSD is a disability for which a service dog is recognized

You will notice in my first post.. I asked what tasks the dog is performing for the owner. Unless that is answered... it's not a service dog. It all boils down to that.

I am also a person with PTSD who has a small service dog who is trained to help me when I am triggered. It is the attitude of people like you that make me afraid to bring my dog with me to places where I need her, making me even more vulnerable to PTSD triggers. It is not the fault of people with disabilities that there is no legitimate federal registry for service animals. Please be more thoughtful and considerate with your comments.

But it is society's problem to deal with that many members of it are selfish and in turn hurt those truly in need. And no I'm not sorry about scrutiny because otherwise the problem grows uncontrollably (which is one of the flaws of the ADA.. by trying to force inclusion by avoiding scrutiny, it leaves the law ripe for abuse).

So I'll take back my comment about 'no such thing' - but the argument stands until the dog is shown to provide a specific task.
And personal opinion wise... I think these comfort 'tasks' are crap.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

With most condos restricting the size of pet you can live with, I would expect more and more service dogs to be generally smaller in size.

 

[arko]

And that's a great list of tasks that a service dog maybe trained to do and arguably a doctor may suggest for someone with symptoms that maybe related to PSTD. So let's bring it back to the case at hand here.... do we really think the dog in question is trained for any of those tasks or similar given the information we have been given?



Which is really the key point here. Simply having an identified disability, and having an animal that you get comfort from (even if related to your disability) does not make the animal a service animal.. and isn't regulated the same.

When we continue to go down the road of 'well it makes them feel better'.. we have the adults who won't give up their security blanket.. and people will keep pushing for greater and greater accommodations.

When I look at a claimed service dog I look for a few things that usually give me a good idea as to whether its been actually trained, and the fakes are usually pretty easy to spot

• Easiest is dog behavior. Is it focused, watch a real trained service dog and it is focused on its task at all times and does not waiver or get distracted.Depending on its training it is either watching its owner or watching out for them. Also watch the leash a trained service dog will very rarely if ever drag their owner on a tight leash.
• The vest, if its a generic "this is a service dog" vest I get a little leery, most organizations that train service dogs have patches and vests that tell you exactly what the dog is trained for and who it was trained by. Most of these organizations get by on donations and they are not shy about getting the word out about who they and what they do. However this can get a little tricky if the dog was trained privately, but usually behavior and actions will confirm or deny initial suspicions
• If I see a "pet me I am friendly" patch that is another red flag, most real service dogs have a "do not pet me I am working" patch, and are specifically trained using the vest as an indicator whether they are on duty or not. Vest on they are working, vest off they can play.

Even with all this I am not going to challenge somebody unless the dog becomes a nuisance or danger to others. I think the important thing to remember is that trained or not the owner is still resonsible for the dogs actions, and even being trained does not make the dog immune from being removed if its not behaving. This law gives the police some bite when that happens because they can start investigating the legitimacy of the service dog claim if the owner refuses to leave or the dog causes damage or injury. If its a legitimate service dog they have to determine whether the dog was acting correctly based on its training and if the dog is not trained and the owner made that claim they can charge the owner on top of any charges that may apply.

 

[ChrisM]

The other day at Epcot, I have never seen so many dogs inside a theme park.

Ahem. Korean Food & Wine Festival booth.

 

[flynnibus]

no diabetic service animals are trained to let the owner or parent in many cases know when their blood sugar levels are out of whack, they do this by scent and are trained to recognize and alert so that you resolve the issue before you need someone else to have to administer your meds.

I am aware of that and it was a poor choice of example (I was just adding flavor to the 'get the meds' task a dog can be trained for). But continuous monitoring is something we don't really need service dogs for... this coming from a poorly controlled diabetic himself.

As long as people abuse freedoms, we will have people scrutinizing and challenging them. Be it the freedom to go take a smoke when you want, or head to the watercooler... the selfish ones always make it worse for others.

Like a pet peeve of mine.. pulled into the grocery store this morning... a woman pulls up and parks along the curb in the shopping plaza with her flashers on.. when the parking lot is empty and the parking spots are literally just on the other side of the road she is standing on. Just freaking self-centered behavior that knows no shame.

 

[arko]

I don't normally post, but I feel compelled to correct you on this important point. Under the ADA, PTSD is a disability for which a service dog is recognized. I am also a person with PTSD who has a small service dog who is trained to help me when I am triggered. It is the attitude of people like you that make me afraid to bring my dog with me to places where I need her, making me even more vulnerable to PTSD triggers. It is not the fault of people with disabilities that there is no legitimate federal registry for service animals. Please be more thoughtful and considerate with your comments.

Service Animals
The Department of Justice published revised final regulations implementing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) for title II (State and local government services) and title III (public accommodations and commercial facilities) on September 15, 2010, in the Federal Register. These requirements, or rules, clarify and refine issues that have arisen over the past 20 years and contain new, and updated, requirements, including the 2010 Standards for Accessible Design (2010 Standards).
Overview
This publication provides guidance on the term “service animal” and the service animal provisions in the Department’s new regulations.

• Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA.
• A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability.
• Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.

How “Service Animal” Is Defined
Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

If your dog is a properly trained service dog, then you shouldn't be afraid to take it anywhere, if someone challenges you they are allowed to ask the following
1) Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability?

2) What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?

If you have the answer to both then you should never be denied access.

 

[arko]

I am aware of that and it was a poor choice of example (I was just adding flavor to the 'get the meds' task a dog can be trained for). But continuous monitoring is something we don't really need service dogs for... this coming from a poorly controlled diabetic himself.

As long as people abuse freedoms, we will have people scrutinizing and challenging them. Be it the freedom to go take a smoke when you want, or head to the watercooler... the selfish ones always make it worse for others.

Like a pet peeve of mine.. pulled into the grocery store this morning... a woman pulls up and parks along the curb in the shopping plaza with her flashers on.. when the parking lot is empty and the parking spots are literally just on the other side of the road she is standing on. Just freaking self-centered behavior that knows no shame.

Just like the GAC and the DAS there will always be people who will abuse the system, because they can. The internet has made an existing issue worse because it makes it that much easier for people to learn how to abuse it and gives them the tools to do so. The main victims are those with a real need who get lumped in with the abusers.

 

[Victor Kelly]

I have documented PTSD, I carry meds for when it flares. I am also able to focus and reduce the anxiety through training from professionals in the field if it is not too bad. I have a dog and two cats, they always come running when it happens at home. They are not trained, but if I am HOME, they are a great help. That is where they live. There are animals trained for PTSD, our vets are finally getting them. I do not know what or how they help, but imagine it is to stay close and provide comfort as only a dog can do.

As others have said, you can tell a real service dog from a BS artist. It is all behavior of the animal. Some people will ruin it for everyone, that is why people like me and other are willing to challenge, so the people that really need the animal can have it, all the time. Just like the card you can get for handicapped, people will abuse it, eventually people will be required to show proof they need the card, laws can be amended and changed. So keep screwing it up posers, enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

That's where the Doctors note - and perhaps X-rays come in.
My post was meant as sarcasm.
I think scooters have been a wonderful way for people to get out, who's physical condition had previously prevented them from doing so.
Of course, I also believe that - people being people - there are multitudes of able bodied people taking advantage.
I also believe that there are a lot of people who are letting there bodies atrophy by giving up on walking.

Personally - I BellyDance - like the gal in your avatar...who is that anyway...Is that "Mo-Rockin"?? I always missed seeing her

 

[rob0519]

Simple... places of public accommodation aren't allowed to quiz people and require proof... that doesn't mean the police can't. If they suspect you are in violation of the law, they will have to provide proof of the dog's training/purpose.. if not, citation. The police are enforcing the state law... it's not a subject of discrimination in a public accommodation (which is what the federal law covers).

Yep, most police forces will get right on this. Just like they enforce state laws by writing citations for talking on the phone while driving, speeding, littering, jay walking, etc., etc., etc.

 

[flynnibus]

Yep, most police forces will get right on this. Just like they enforce state laws by writing citations for talking on the phone while driving, speeding, littering, jay walking, etc., etc., etc.

The context of my post was not that the police would seek out enforcement... but rather there is a MEANS to do it now.

While the police may not go out of their way to cite you for cell phone use, etc... it becomes something they can cite you for if you are wrapped up in some trouble because of it. Just like the topic here... by having a MEANS to involve the police, you create a legal foundation to discourage abuse and a way to actually prosecute if they so desire. It is a TOOL and allows businesses/etc to involve the police if needed and they will actually have laws to enforce... instead of pure ADA topics which would be civil suits only.

 

[JourneysEnd]

I agree. Without some kind of official credential system, it seems impossible to determine if someone is lying or not if they won't admit to it.

Then you have the PTSD dogs. I don't think they have any special training.

 

[JourneysEnd]

I would be ****ed if someone brought a miniature horse into my business.

Here is what I found on miniature horse.

What animals are eligible to be service animals?
As of the last revision on March 15, 2011, the law specifies that only dogs are currently recognized as service animals under titles II and III. There is a provision listed for miniature horses that are 24 to 34 inches in height and 70 to 100 pounds in weight. The miniature horse provision does list requirements for the horses.

Miniature horses used as service animals must:

• Be housebroken
• Be under the owner’s control
• Not compromise the facility’s operations
• Be able to be accommodated by the facility based on type, size and weight

Entities that serve the public are required to accommodate miniature horses as service animals based on the above provisions.

I raise and show miniature horses. Very few are under 100 lbs. My smallest right now is 31" and he's right at 190 lbs.
I also don't think they are particularly suitable for most service work. Just my opinion.

 

[StageFrenzy]

Then you have the PTSD dogs. I don't think they have any special training.

Then it's not a service dog.

 

[bhg469]

I'll just interject that over the summer my company is contracted to do work wit h a festival here in WNY. It draws around 60k people on some days. Most of my work is done at the gates and this year's especially, service dogs were very aboundant. Most of the dogs were not what I would consider well trained. The people had documents in most cases and were allowed entry. The problem is that people cannot be allowed to assess the situation for fear of being chastised by the public. I recall one lady who brought in 2 dogs. They were fairly well behaved but it was one person with two dogs.. I can't imagine the benefit of two service animals. Anyway my point is, this is definitely on the increase and I noticed it a lot more this year than the past 6 I have been doing this same job.

 

[fngoofy]

Seems like a giant can of worms. I like it in principle, but the issue becomes "prove it."

Well, the woman I just saw last week at MK carrying a chihuahua I would put in the "Fake" category.

 

[LAKid53]

What the Florida Legislature is trying to address and as @NowInc mentioned, are the people bring untrained animals, especially large dogs, into businesses like restaurants, grocery stores and shops and the animals causing major problems - my grocery store ISN'T Petco. Yes, I actually saw a college age student at the deli counter at Publix with a puppy in her arms - she was trying to hide it in her shirt. I informed her that under Florida law (this was several years ago) it was illegal to bring an animal into the store unless it was a bona fide service animal and I was going to report her to the store manager. She mouthed off the usually string of four letter words so I proceeded to flag down a manager and he escorted her and her friends out the door.

I remember going through bag check at WDW and there was a woman behind me with a purse dog - in her tote bag. She told security at bag check it was a service dog, to which I let out a laugh loud enough for her to hear since I had turned around when the dog barked at security. As I walked away, she was in an intense discussion with security as they were concerned the dog might try to bite guests since it clearly had exhibited behavior not common to a trained service animal.

 

[LAKid53]

Id agree with you except one thing......

Its Florida.

But the law will give ample grounds for lawsuits - and as you said, this IS Florida. I have friends who need service animals - dogs. I want a pet like that. But these are so much more than pets. And I've seen people who train service animals taking those animals in training - and they are CLEARLY marked as such - through Disney. I've stopped and chatted with them and also asked if I could pet the dog.

Any animal, including one as well trained as a service animal, in a stressful situation (and WDW is the ultimate environment for things that cause the best of us to go nuts), can react negatively. And bite someone. So my hopes is this law will make those who cannot function without their purse dog by their side 24/7 think about both the dog AND the people around them and leave the poor thing at home. Dogs, unless they are service animals, don't belong in a major theme park, in the grocery store, riding around town with you leaning out the car window, sitting in your lap when you drive (yes, I've actually seen that), etc., etc. They belong at home, where they (and others) can be safe and discourage that guy trying to break into your house.

Don't get me wrong, I love animals and have owned several dogs and currently own the cutest cat on the planet. However, I'm not going to anthropomorphize my pet and lessen her dignity as a cat.

 

[fosse76]

Simple... places of public accommodation aren't allowed to quiz people and require proof... that doesn't mean the police can't. If they suspect you are in violation of the law, they will have to provide proof of the dog's training/purpose.. if not, citation. The police are enforcing the state law... it's not a subject of discrimination in a public accommodation (which is what the federal law covers).

But they have to violate the Federal law to do it. I would argue that this simply allows businesses to have the police do their "dirty work" for them. The police are not going to be going into businesses and set up "road blocks" for service animals. It will entirely rely on a business calling the police. And in my opinion, in this situation the police are acting almost as de facto employees of the business and not as police. I don't see why Congress simply doesn't change the law to permit proof (i.e., some sort of specialised tag as opposed to paperwork).