Not well I'm afraid. Thus, the lackage of donkey on my last trip.
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New Florida law addresses "fake" service animals with possible jail time
- Thread starter MissM
- Start date
Not well I'm afraid. Thus, the lackage of donkey on my last trip.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Can your donkey make waffles? Mine can!
WDWSDH
New Member
Hi. I'm new to the forums and just posted a very similar post to what I'm about to say, at the end of a different "service dog" thread. My profile picture is of my fully-trained, 6 year old, 5.9 lb. PTSD service dog, whom I have worked with most of her life. She is a Maltese-yorkie. Just to make a quick point that maybe some have not considered before, but the service dogs coming to WDW, and especially the ones with little legs like mine, need breaks. I'm not being naïve and saying that all of these people that have been mentioned have legitimately trained service animals -- mostl likely not all of them do. However, it is still legitimate and legal to let your dog rest, even in a stroller, or maybe a "sling" (Bjorn type) like I have (granted, it hasn't been used in a long time because she walks with me most of the time) but I've considered bringing something like the sling to WDW when my family and service dog and I travel there this winter for a vacation. Being a previous annual pass holder at DLR, I know the fireworks freak her out and hurt her ears and parade traffic could cause her to be trampled if I at didn't at least carry her.
Now, if these objects are actually preventing the dog from ever being able to be in a working position (like all day long) that would be a problem, as they would not be "working." However, strollers, slings (like a Bjorn), etc. are conveniences for small dogs to rest. They may be a little silly seeming, and may not make immediate sense to onlookers, but don't judge people by what you're seeing in just a singular moment (I am not denying some things appear pretty obvious at any given time... such as having 3 tiny dogs in a stroller, meaning both parents and the child had their own service dog, which is possible but unlikely, given the situation.) Also, remember, even if it is silly to use something like a stroller (eg) you don't know what the person's disability is. That person may at times be quite regressive and this just plays into it. Mental illness can be difficult to ascertain without a conversation, and maybe a degree.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Sorry you're dealing with PTSD. That's horrible.
Anyways, your Ire should be more towards those who bring in service dogs with fake vests than anything IMO. That seems to be the larger point that most of us are making.
WDWSDH
New Member
PhotoDave,
I hear what you're saying. And you're right, posers ruin it for the legitimate service dog teams. (Thank you for your kindness regarding my PTSD, by the way.) However, since I'm using a very tiny service dog at this point in time, I get "accused" of these things a lot -- people believing I'm faking and just trying to bring my pet everywhere with me just for the fun of it, simply because she looks like a puppy and they cannot imagine she could be legit. It's better than it used to be, but it's always happened. People also laugh as I walk by with her. I know not everyone is mean-spirited, but my PTSD makes me vulnerable to these things as it is, and it kills me and can be very triggering as we walk by and people think it's (read: I am) a joke. I am really sensitive about it, but feel somewhat justified, as it's really a part of my disability. So, all that to say, I totally acknowledge your point, but I have my own feelings about what get's "dismissed" as a joke from my own experiences. It completely ticks me off when I know someone's faking their pet as an SD, but it also really screws with my head when I get lumped in too, because people simply are not aware that dogs of all sizes can be used if they have the correct temperament.
I hear what you're saying. And you're right, posers ruin it for the legitimate service dog teams. (Thank you for your kindness regarding my PTSD, by the way.) However, since I'm using a very tiny service dog at this point in time, I get "accused" of these things a lot -- people believing I'm faking and just trying to bring my pet everywhere with me just for the fun of it, simply because she looks like a puppy and they cannot imagine she could be legit. It's better than it used to be, but it's always happened. People also laugh as I walk by with her. I know not everyone is mean-spirited, but my PTSD makes me vulnerable to these things as it is, and it kills me and can be very triggering as we walk by and people think it's (read: I am) a joke. I am really sensitive about it, but feel somewhat justified, as it's really a part of my disability. So, all that to say, I totally acknowledge your point, but I have my own feelings about what get's "dismissed" as a joke from my own experiences. It completely ticks me off when I know someone's faking their pet as an SD, but it also really screws with my head when I get lumped in too, because people simply are not aware that dogs of all sizes can be used if they have the correct temperament.
asianway
Well-Known Member
There's some lady in a fb group bringing in 6 dogs to the mk for service dog training And inviting members to come up and cuddle and ride attractions with them.
Legit?
DisneyOutsider
Well-Known Member
This conversation is becoming incredibly insensitive towards those with emotional disorders.
I'm not usually the first guy to call the PC-Police, but this is getting embarrassing for the community here. There is an individual posting directly above you who needs a trained and certified emotional support animal in order to function to their full capacity in public spaces due to PTSD (my apologies to @WDWSDH if any of that was off). @WDWSDH is not alone in this disorder, and if a well-trained and certified support dog is the medicine that allows him/her to experience WDW, far be it from me to shame them for it.
DrewmanS
Well-Known Member
I think your feelings, sensitivity, and perceived judgement by others (which may be accurate) all indicate why some official process of registering and certifying a service animal is needed. Some standard should be established to determine if a service dog is needed/required by an individual (whether physical, mental, or emotional). As long as that standard is met and the service animal is properly professionally trained to provide the necessary support in a public environment, then some form of certification/permit/tag should be issued by an official agency and displayed by the animal. While some would still try to abuse the system (like people at my gym running on a treadmill but using a handicap permit), it would likely drastically reduce those who simply game the system to take their pets anywhere they want. It won't stop all the looks of judgement by others when the need for a service animal is not visually apparent, but at least it would provide some sense of confirmation to those with legitimate needs.
flynnibus
Premium Member
It's not insensitive - the person is passing wrong information and basing statements on MISINFORMATION to support their belief.
The guy says he has a 'PSTD service animal' - there is no such thing. A service animal performs some tasks for the individual with the disability. Even the VA says there is no clinical support for the concept of a PSTD 'service animal' (http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/treatment/cope/dogs_and_ptsd.asp)
Which is why I asked, what tasks does this dog perform? A dog, that somehow has been trained (as being a service animal), yet has been in service with the poster most of the animal's life?? Service dogs can take up to 2 years or more to be trained... Which of these points do you believe support the poster's needs of having a 'PSTD Service animal' and trying to defend against scrutiny for acting like he has a service dog? It's a emotional support dog... and why it can function in a stroller, in a sling, etc.
Except... emotional support animals ARE NOT SERVICE ANIMALS and are not covered under the law the same as service animals. And there is no such thing as 'trained and certified emotional support animals'. There are protections for the use of emotional support animals - but they are not interchangable with service animals. Sorry if you feel its insensitive to stand up to people who try to blur that line.... fire away, I'm right here.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Fenchurch42
New Member
I don't normally post, but I feel compelled to correct you on this important point. Under the ADA, PTSD is a disability for which a service dog is recognized. I am also a person with PTSD who has a small service dog who is trained to help me when I am triggered. It is the attitude of people like you that make me afraid to bring my dog with me to places where I need her, making me even more vulnerable to PTSD triggers. It is not the fault of people with disabilities that there is no legitimate federal registry for service animals. Please be more thoughtful and considerate with your comments.
Service Animals
The Department of Justice published revised final regulations implementing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) for title II (State and local government services) and title III (public accommodations and commercial facilities) on September 15, 2010, in the Federal Register. These requirements, or rules, clarify and refine issues that have arisen over the past 20 years and contain new, and updated, requirements, including the 2010 Standards for Accessible Design (2010 Standards).
Overview
This publication provides guidance on the term “service animal” and the service animal provisions in the Department’s new regulations.
- Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA.
- A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability.
- Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.
Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.
PTSD service animals exist and many perform tasks that are vital. The differentiation between support and service animal is the key, a service animal can also serve as a support animal but that in of itself is not a service.
Here is a list from one website that is quite extensive
In each of these cases the dog is trained to perform a service, simply being a comforting influence is not enough to categorize the dog as a service animal.
Edit: these tasks are for anybody who suffers from the symptoms described above and are not limited to PTSD sufferers.
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That would require creating a standard of training and certification which nobody can agree on.
asianway
Well-Known Member
Every lifestyler has an angle
aladdin2007
Well-Known Member
The other day at Epcot, I have never seen so many dogs inside a theme park. In fact too many, and they were mostly small dogs so not sure whats going on all of the sudden but it never use to be.
because nobody wants to be the person who questions it and gets it wrong.
Its seems the type of dogs that get the most scrutiny are small dogs, especially if they are in a carrier. The logical question is what type of service can they perform if they are being carried around, well not all service dogs provide a physical service, diabetic service dogs just need a good nose and proper training and many small breeds will do.
Being able to tell the difference between a fully trained dog and a well behaved dog can be tricky. Fully trained service dogs are not just trained in their respective tasks but are trained in how to behave in public and to consciously ignore distracting stimuli such as toys small children who want to pet them etc.A well behaved dog might be fine in most circumstances but may react badly given the right circumstances. But nobody wants to or is allowed to test the dogs abilities so challenging someone is difficult until the dog actually misbehaves. And the reality is the new law really only covers situations when a dog does misbehave, because its the only time law enforcement or business owners will challenge the owner. Its important to understand that regardless of whether a dog is actually trained or not if it becomes a nuisance the business owner/manager has every right to ask the dog be removed. It is the responisiblity of the owner to ensure the dog is well behaved and does not disturb others, and this trumps any service dog claims.
flynnibus
Premium Member
And that's a great list of tasks that a service dog maybe trained to do and arguably a doctor may suggest for someone with symptoms that maybe related to PSTD. So let's bring it back to the case at hand here.... do we really think the dog in question is trained for any of those tasks or similar given the information we have been given?
Which is really the key point here. Simply having an identified disability, and having an animal that you get comfort from (even if related to your disability) does not make the animal a service animal.. and isn't regulated the same.
When we continue to go down the road of 'well it makes them feel better'.. we have the adults who won't give up their security blanket.. and people will keep pushing for greater and greater accommodations.
flynnibus
Premium Member
But there should also be common sense limits that if the same thing can be achieved with something that doesn't involve bringing a live animal in... you shouldn't need the animal.
I can wear a medical braclet that tells someone I am diabetic, or allergic, etc. You don't need a service animal in public to bring me my meds since the dog isn't going to administer it anyways.