New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Splash4eva]

Back when FP+ was still around, there were people on another forum who insisted that
- you couldn’t modify times
- you couldn’t book for a different park from the one you were in at the time
- you had to pre-book 3
etc.
Why? Because that was what was true when it first came in and they didn’t bother to try and keep up to date with the changes.

And we’re not even talking about all the features that had been discovered by those of us who took the time to really learn the nuances.

That’s why!

Again im
Not saying everyone but are you and others really saying that its the “norm” to only ride and get that little amount out of Genie?!? Some can pull double digits easily i know thats not the norm either…

 

[nickys]

Again im
Not saying everyone but are you and others really saying that it’s the “norm” to only ride and get that little amount out of Genie?!? Some can pull double digits easily i know thats not the norm either…

No idea but I assume the figures are coming from somewhere.

Anecdotal but there have been reports from people who clearly didn’t understand the 2hr rule. That in itself is key.

I even remember one person who thought you could only book again after 2 hours. So even after riding they were waiting 2 hrs before trying to book another one.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I too would like a discounted G+ so I can afford to visit more often with low waits.

 

[Touchdown]

None of that supports your claim that first time visitors only experience 4-6 attractions on average or that the number has been dropping since Covid.

4-6 rides a day has been quoted on this website since before I’ve been posting. Also why else do you think guest satisfaction is dropping? Just look at Lens post above. The DAS changes caused a significant change. It’s over, there’s no point in arguing.

 

[Kingoglow]

Again im
Not saying everyone but are you and others really saying that its the “norm” to only ride and get that little amount out of Genie?!? Some can pull double digits easily i know thats not the norm either…

Disney itself advertises these numbers in order to set expectations. From the Disney World website on the Genie+ (Lightning Lane) page. Disney tells guests:
Purchase Disney Genie+ service to use the Lightning Lane entrances at select attractions and experiences (subject to change without notice). On average, Guests can enter 2 to 3 attractions or experiences per day using the Lightning Lane entrance if the first selection is made early in the day.

We know how to get more LL's, obviously, but any guests that focuses their research on Disney's site itself might have an expectation of up to 3 LL's.

 

[Disstevefan1]

On average, Guests can enter 2 to 3 attractions or experiences per day using the Lightning Lane entrance if the first selection is made early in the day.

Its good Disney is fully transparent on just how bad the system is.

 

[Splash4eva]

No idea but I assume the figures are coming from somewhere.

Anecdotal but there have been reports from people who clearly didn’t understand the 2hr rule. That in itself is key.

I even remember one person who thought you could only book again after 2 hours. So even after riding they were waiting 2 hrs before trying to book another one.

Disney is selling probably north of 10k my guess more daily. So yes there will always be outliers on both ends but again that is not the norm. Before you or anyone ask next NO i dont have proof its just common sense and from literally everyone ive spoken to who have gone to parka from novice to expert and spent the majority of day in the park

 

[Splash4eva]

Disney itself advertises these numbers in order to set expectations. From the Disney World website on the Genie+ (Lightning Lane) page. Disney tells guests:
Purchase Disney Genie+ service to use the Lightning Lane entrances at select attractions and experiences (subject to change without notice). On average, Guests can enter 2 to 3 attractions or experiences per day using the Lightning Lane entrance if the first selection is made early in the day.

We know how to get more LL's, obviously, but any guests that focuses their research on Disney's site itself might have an expectation of up to 3 LL's.

Again im fully aware of the disclaimer Disney put out but if you truly feel majority of guests only were able to pull 2-3 so be it

 

[Kingoglow]

I was just chiming in to share where the numbers come from.

I do think it is reasonable to assume that a majority of new guests (first timers) would focus their research on the Disney World website. In my experience, very few people are Google power users either. There is a reason that bad actors are buying sponsored links that appear at the top of a Google results page to drive traffic to malicious sites; users don't navigate through the search results.

In any event, we are off topic.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Some data from in the parks related to this.

We've been counting the number of guests getting in both the standby line and the Lightning Lane line, by minute, on various days at various attractions, for the past year. (So tens of thousands of guests per attraction overall.)

We're doing it to test a new way to predict actual wait times. It has the side effect of measuring Lightning Lane usage over time.

The data are preliminary.

But as an example, we see the ratio of Lightning Lane guests to Standby guests at Haunted Mansion has dropped significantly since the "DAS Switch" May 20

A year ago, on July 8, 2023, we counted 7 Lightning Lane guests for every 10 standby guests at Mansion. And on other days, that ratio was as high as 13 Lightning Lane guests for every 10 guests.

Prior to the DAS switch, we never saw less than 4 LL to 10 Standby at Mansion.

As a ballpark estimate, the "pre-DAS Switch" average ratio might have been 8 or 9 LL guests for every 10 Standby.

Post-DAs the ratio is closer to 2 LL to 10 Standby at Mansion.

That's a significant drop. I am reasonably confident that a look into the park's internal metrics would show a similar trend.

The practical impact of that is that guests who don't pay for Lightning Lane are seeing significantly shorter waits in line.
And I think that's a good thing.

I haven't done the numbers, but I would have a whole bunch of questions if it was proposed that the drop in LL usage was entirely due to guests with legitimate DAS needs being denied DAS, and thus not going to the parks.

For one thing, that'd be 70% of the Lightning Lane usage and 25% of the entire ride's usage. And keep in mind, people are still getting DAS. So that's a large number to accept otherwise.

This certainly matches my (admittedly anecdotal) experience using the genie+ lightning lanes from June 22 - June 30th where basically every single lightning lane was a "walk-on" straight through to the merge point. That was not my experience on my previous 17 trips.

 

[lentesta]

You know that Disney does not provide direct numbers. However we know:
-Guest attendance is down
-Disney is making drastic, unpopular, politically damaging decisions
-Lens data further up in this thread (and the knowledge he has been NDAd by Disney from sharing more data)

Why else do you think Disney is doing this now? It always comes back to money and Disney is losing money.

I haven't signed an NDA with Disney about anything related to data or my work. And I wouldn't.

As you can imagine with a company of 70,000-ish people, knowledge is exchanged without attribution all the time. And that goes both ways.

 

[Angel Ariel]

This is a shockingly ableist thing to say; not everyone with a disability also has a severe intellectual disability. The disabled are able to formulate arguments, hold jobs, be in positions of responsibility, etc., all of which make us subject to criticism just like any other non-disabled person.

People with intellectual disabilities can also hold jobs, be in positions of responsibility, formulate arguments, etc. Yes, this includes people with "severe" intellectual disabilities. They deserve to be treated, spoken of and spoken with the same way we interact with all humans.

 

[lentesta]

The average first time guest only goes on 4-6 attractions per day.

Disney's on the record with the NYT here saying the average guest sees 10 attractions.

They didn't say what counts as an "attraction", so it's plausible that the afternoon parade, evening parade (at that time), and fireworks counted as 3.

If they really wanted to stretch the definition of "attraction," the website lists things like Casey's Corner Pianist, Cinderella Castle, and the park opening ceremony as well.

I would disagree that those should be counted - nobody's paying $175 per person for that.

So if your definition of attraction did not include those, and the definition was limited to rides, shows, parades, and fireworks, I could see 4-6 as that number.

I don't think they separated out first-timers, though. If you have those numbers, I'd love to see them.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This certainly matches my (admittedly anecdotal) experience using the genie+ lightning lanes from June 22 - June 30th where basically every single lightning lane was a "walk-on" straight through to the merge point. That was not my experience on my previous 17 trips.

The system seems to work well for AK where less folks visit and "off peak" times which now seems to be summertime.

In peak times, I am not so sure.

But if attendance in WDW continues to go down in all seasons the system will work.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Disney's on the record with the NYT here saying the average guest sees 10 attractions.

Including fireworks / parades I think that’s correct.

I did 10 attractions at DHS with no genie / lightning lane, a relaxing lunch at brown derby, and lots of wandering the park just to see it. And that was without trying.

At Disneyland I’ve gotten 12 attractions in 3 hours but that was a good morning and I was there at open.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney's on the record with the NYT here saying the average guest sees 10 attractions.

In NYT, it said, " In the last few months, however, the operations center has managed to make enough nips and tucks to lift that average to 10."

I think we need a fact check here

 

[DoubleSwitchback]

People with intellectual disabilities can also hold jobs, be in positions of responsibility, formulate arguments, etc. Yes, this includes people with "severe" intellectual disabilities. They deserve to be treated, spoken of and spoken with the same way we interact with all humans.

Great point! How about this instead: "just because she's a young woman in a chair with a trach, don't assume she's beneath taking seriously; engage with her ideas and proposals just like you would anyone else"

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Yes, she has her 15 minutes of fame now...and still no explanation as to why she can't wait in a standby line or wait outside the queue while her party waits in line.

Also, they (disney) seemed to be concerned with her pattern of returning every weekend with more people and more family. I think they saw a pattern here for abuse with her getting them perks associated with her DAS. It seems a little extreme to me to go every weekend with more and more different people. But who knows??

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Also, they (disney) seemed to be concerned with her pattern of returning every weekend with more people and more family.

Source?

It seems a little extreme to me to go every weekend with more and more different people.

I don’t even live near the parks and I visit with a mix of family and friends - nothing extreme about it.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Including fireworks / parades I think that’s correct.

I did 10 attractions at DHS with no genie / lightning lane, a relaxing lunch at brown derby, and lots of wandering the park just to see it. And that was without trying.

At Disneyland I’ve gotten 12 attractions in 3 hours but that was a good morning and I was there at open.

We've had plenty of Epcot days over the years where we didn't go on any attractions, or at least we used to do that. (Or maybe we went on 1 low wait attraction.)

These days the gift shops aren't nearly as interesting as they once were, and paying $100+ admission plus overpriced snacks is less appealing than it used to be.

If I am buying G+, then I am apt to get as much out of it as possible. That's an important aspect of paying for something like G+. I think many feel the same way.