New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Vegas Disney Fan]

While so agree it's needed, we also know it's not changing any time soon. To be fair DAS went over and above what's required for those with disabilities.

I agree it went above what was required, I just wish they would have tried weeding out the abuse instead of tossing out a great program that made the parks enjoyable for a lot of people who struggle in life.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I agree it went above what was required, I just wish they would have tried weeding out the abuse instead of tossing out a great program that made the parks enjoyable for a lot of people who struggle in life.

That they aren’t directly going after abuse by way of some form of proof and instead are going through the trouble to overhaul the program says to me they felt like legitimate use had too much of an impact on operations in addition to blatant liars and the DAS tour guides.

 

[Grantwil93]

That they aren’t directly going after abuse by way of some form of proof and instead are going through the trouble to overhaul the program says to me they felt like legitimate use had too much of an impact on operations in addition to blatant liars and the DAS tour guides.

Ding ding! System worked to well and was far too broadly distributed in their view.

The legal requirements for accommodation are so much lower than what Disney provides. Disney is making the choice to overhaul because they felt it was needed and they feel they have strong legal coverage on the changes made.

 

[Grantwil93]

While so agree it's needed, we also know it's not changing any time soon. To be fair DAS went over and above what's required for those with disabilities.

They know they need more capacity. Even if they start right now, significant capacity increase is years out.

And they do have a long list of rides that honestly need extensive refurbs. Which is also a capacity issue.

Epcot alone has 3 that need a lot of work just to function properly with efficiency. Let alone the other parks. Like Animal with so few rides, or Studios with Rockin being down for months 2 tears in a row. Or magic losing splash and now big thunder right as splash cones back.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

That they aren’t directly going after abuse by way of some form of proof and instead are going through the trouble to overhaul the program says to me they felt like legitimate use had too much of an impact on operations in addition to blatant liars and the DAS tour guides.

It’s too bad Disneys IT is so poor, the one size fits all DAS approach was almost set up for abuse, an individualized IT approach probably could have fixed most of the issues even with increasing numbers of disabilities.

In our case we only needed it for exterior (in the sun) lines generally over 30 minutes, had the app had the ability to limit it to those conditions we wouldn’t have been tempted to click it for the 25 minute pirates line in the shade, etc. Multiply those temptation abuses times a few thousand users and it turns into tens of thousands of rides a day, that’s on top of the outright abusers who had no reason to have it.

Then there’s the reride abuse, with the exception of a few very specific autistic style ride fixations there’s no reason DAS should be able to reserve the same ride multiple times a day, that’s a few thousand more abuses.

I feel it could have been salvaged but it was probably easier and cheaper to just eliminate it for all but the most severe disabilities, in the long run it’ll be interesting to see how it affects attendance and also whether per person spending goes down, those thousands of people formerly waiting for rides in the shops and restaurants are now going to be standing in line, counter the original point of FP.

 

[hopemax]

You never said “at the most popular attractions”, that’s completely moving the bar… but we can look at that also… take out the 4 you listed and we’ve still got Space, HM, and Pirates, just those 3 rides equals 90,000 rides a day, 70% of that is 63,000… is it your argument that 4,720 people are going on those 3 rides 63,000 times?

Do you honestly think every single DAS guest is going on the big rides 4 times a day? Because that’s hard math, the only way your claim of 8% using 70%, even if only the most popular attractions, is if they are going on every e-ticket 4 times a day.

I get you’re sticking to the insider reports but the insiders are clearly wrong, or what they reported has been repeated and modified so many times the original inside info is different.

I've been confused during this discussion today, because I understood it to be 70% of capacity of specific, popular attractions. I was very confused why you guys were running numbers based on total park capacity. Len even mentioned that there were internal concerns that when Tiana opens that the number of people attempting to ride that ride, with a DAS could equal the entire capacity for that ride.

We can take things like FOP at AK. 35K average daily capacity for the park. 8% = 2800 DAS users x 3 people average using the pass = 8400 daily rides coming from DAS. The estimated capacity for FOP is about 14,000. So we're looking at 60%. Some DAS people won't ride, some will ride multiple times.

Going back to Tiana. An old post from here from CMs said they aimed for 1800 pph on Splash. So in a 8-10 operating day that would be a daily capacity of ~25,000. Average attendance 52,000. 8% DAS = 4160 x 3 = 12480 or about 50%. It seems unlikely that DAS usage could equal the total daily capacity. But new attractions mess with ratios due to a lot of locals, APs, and DVC people heading to the park, and increase the number of people interested in re-rides. Plus, who knows how stable the ride will be. Significant downtime would cut capacity.

 

[ditzee]

That they aren’t directly going after abuse by way of some form of proof and instead are going through the trouble to overhaul the program says to me they felt like legitimate use had too much of an impact on operations in addition to blatant liars and the DAS tour guides.

Says to me they took the easy way and hey, it's their business. Problem is they will have caused some Disney fans distress. It isn't a good look for a company that is supposed to be family and disabled friendly. Stories of denial will make the papers and we're already seeing it online.
Surely do miss Eisner. Under his leadership, the company seemed to care more about guests. Iger though likely makes stockholders happy cause with him at the helm, it's all about the $$$$ and screw the guests.

 

[WDWTrojan]

It’s too bad Disneys IT is so poor, the one size fits all DAS approach was almost set up for abuse, an individualized IT approach probably could have fixed most of the issues even with increasing numbers of disabilities.

In our case we only needed it for exterior (in the sun) lines generally over 30 minutes, had the app had the ability to limit it to those conditions we wouldn’t have been tempted to click it for the 25 minute pirates line in the shade, etc. Multiply those temptation abuses times a few thousand users and it turns into tens of thousands of rides a day, that’s on top of the outright abusers who had no reason to have it.

Then there’s the reride abuse, with the exception of a few very specific autistic style ride fixations there’s no reason DAS should be able to reserve the same ride multiple times a day, that’s a few thousand more abuses.

I feel it could have been salvaged but it was probably easier and cheaper to just eliminate it for all but the most severe disabilities, in the long run it’ll be interesting to see how it affects attendance and also whether per person spending goes down, those thousands of people formerly waiting for rides in the shops and restaurants are now going to be standing in line, counter the original point of FP.

Fun fact, in the era pre-DAS, they had "Guest Assistance Cards," which basically replaced the old wheelchair passes from the 90s. You'd go to GR, tell them what your specific needs were and from there they had a half dozen stamps they could put on your GAC, one of which was to offer a shaded wait area for guests who had trouble with sunlight. So they very much tried a (analog) system that allowed Disney to determine

With time people figured out what to say to get the best "enter the FP line" stamp and the other stamps basically started gathering dust, to the point where GR barely even had them on hand anymore.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Fun fact, in the era pre-DAS, they had "Guest Assistance Cards," which basically replaced the old wheelchair passes from the 90s. You'd go to GR, tell them what your specific needs were and from there they had a half dozen stamps they could put on your GAC, one of which was to offer a shaded wait area for guests who had trouble with sunlight. So they very much tried a (analog) system that allowed Disney to determine

With time people figured out what to say to get the best "enter the FP line" stamp and the other stamps basically started gathering dust, to the point where GR barely even had them on hand anymore.

Sounds like whatever system they come up with people will find loopholes to exploit it.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

had the app had the ability to limit it to those conditions we wouldn’t have been tempted to click it for the 25 minute pirates line in the shade,

This is the kind of soft abuse that likely ultimately doomed the program. Few think they were “abusing” DAS, but every single person who used DAS when they didn’t need to ultimately led to its downfall. The user who really could wait in that 15 minute peoplemover line and has no problem waiting in the 20 minute Soarin LL, but used DAS for peoplemover anyway, because why not? The power users who made sure they were always doing something else taking up two spots while waiting in their virtual line because “why wouldn’t they?” “Abuse” doesn’t just mean people who lied to get DAS. It definitely includes people who used DAS when they didn’t need to.

Blaming Disney’s IT for not preventing yourself from powerusing DAS is a little much though. Getting DAS for heat sensitivity, using it for indoor queues like pirates, and then complaining when Disney ultimately has to take it away because of abuse and overuse is really something else.

 

[RamblinWreck]

I've been confused during this discussion today, because I understood it to be 70% of capacity of specific, popular attractions. I was very confused why you guys were running numbers based on total park capacity. Len even mentioned that there were internal concerns that when Tiana opens that the number of people attempting to ride that ride, with a DAS could equal the entire capacity for that ride.

We can take things like FOP at AK. 35K average daily capacity for the park. 8% = 2800 DAS users x 3 people average using the pass = 8400 daily rides coming from DAS. The estimated capacity for FOP is about 14,000. So we're looking at 60%. Some DAS people won't ride, some will ride multiple times.

Going back to Tiana. An old post from here from CMs said they aimed for 1800 pph on Splash. So in a 8-10 operating day that would be a daily capacity of ~25,000. Average attendance 52,000. 8% DAS = 4160 x 3 = 12480 or about 50%. It seems unlikely that DAS usage could equal the total daily capacity. But new attractions mess with ratios due to a lot of locals, APs, and DVC people heading to the park, and increase the number of people interested in re-rides. Plus, who knows how stable the ride will be. Significant downtime would cut capacity.

So DAS users wanting to ride the ride once = 50% of capacity?

It seems more than plausible that the average DAS user would put in to ride it at least twice right after it opened though. So what happens then?

 

[Happyday]

This is the kind of soft abuse that likely ultimately doomed the program. Few think they were “abusing” DAS, but every single person who used DAS when they didn’t need to ultimately led to its downfall. The user who really could wait in that 15 minute peoplemover line and has no problem waiting in the 20 minute Soarin LL, but used DAS for peoplemover anyway, because why not? The power users who made sure they were always doing something else taking up two spots while waiting in their virtual line because “why wouldn’t they?” “Abuse” doesn’t just mean people who lied to get DAS. It definitely includes people who used DAS when they didn’t need to.

Blaming Disney’s IT for not preventing yourself from powerusing DAS is a little much though. Getting DAS for heat sensitivity, using it for indoor queues like pirates, and then complaining when Disney ultimately has to take it away because of abuse and overuse is really something else.

Okay I am sure you are not including EVERYONE in these broad statements? I am going to give you our situation without coming right out and telling you the main reason we have to use DAS. There are multiple rides we ride without using DAS most of which end up being short waits when we go but that is not the reason we don't have to use DAS. Winnie the Pooh, Under the sea with Nemo, Little Mermaid, Jungle Cruise, Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Light-year, Toy story Mania, Small world, Journey into Imagination I'm sure I am forgetting some. There is a common denominator on each of these rides that are not on others like tea cups (not that we go on that) Pirates, Soarin, any of the rollercoasters (no we do not use it for Space Mountain, Rockin rollercoaster, Big Thunder, Expedition Everest or Tower of Terror) those are too much for the DAS user. But they love Slinky and 7 dwarves mine train. We are unable to do the people mover or Peter Pan's flight all together because of our limits if we want to do the rides that are too much or off limits for our DAS user we have to use rider swap or single rider.
I understand that there were people who power used the system BUT there are some of us out there that did not and truly need this service.

 

[Happyday]

So DAS users wanting to ride the ride once = 50% of capacity?

It seems more than plausible that the average DAS user would put in to ride it at least twice right after it opened though. So what happens then?

Unless we were having a REALLY GOOD day we did not use DAS for anything we needed it for more than once so I guess we are not average

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Okay I am sure you are not including EVERYONE in these broad statements? I am going to give you our situation without coming right out and telling you the main reason we have to use DAS. There are multiple rides we ride without using DAS most of which end up being short waits when we go but that is not the reason we don't have to use DAS. Winnie the Pooh, Under the sea with Nemo, Little Mermaid, Jungle Cruise, Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Light-year, Toy story Mania, Small world, Journey into Imagination I'm sure I am forgetting some. There is a common denominator on each of these rides that are not on others like tea cups (not that we go on that) Pirates, Soarin, any of the rollercoasters (no we do not use it for Space Mountain, Rockin rollercoaster, Big Thunder, Expedition Everest or Tower of Terror) those are too much for the DAS user. But they love Slinky and 7 dwarves mine train. We are unable to do the people mover or Peter Pan's flight all together because of our limits if we want to do the rides that are too much or off limits for our DAS user we have to use rider swap or single rider.
I understand that there were people who power used the system BUT there are some of us out there that did not and truly need this service.

I’m not including everyone. The poster i responded to indicated that he had DAS for heat sensitivity but would sometimes use it for the Pirates Queue, even though that’s indoors, “because Disney’s IT was not competent enough to prevent that.” There have been other statements like this littered throughout this thread. This type of overuse, or “soft abuse” definitely contributed to the downfall of this system.

Edit: I’m quoting the full passage here:

In our case we only needed it for exterior (in the sun) lines generally over 30 minutes, had the app had the ability to limit it to those conditions we wouldn’t have been tempted to click it for the 25 minute pirates line in the shade, etc. Multiply those temptation abuses times a few thousand users and it turns into tens of thousands of rides a day, that’s on top of the outright abusers who had no reason to have it.

 

[Happyday]

I’m not including everyone. The poster i responded to indicated that he had DAS for heat sensitivity but would sometimes use it for the Pirates Queue, even though that’s indoors, “because Disney’s IT was not competent enough to prevent that.” There have been other statements like this littered throughout this thread. This type of overuse, or “soft abuse” definitely contributed to the downfall of this system.

Edit: I’m quoting the full passage here:

Oh I missed that onethis is why we can't have nice things

 

[pdude81]

One leads to the other

Standby lines can’t remain as long as they are without significantly increasing G+ usage.

I assume the standby lines would be physically longer but not a longer duration. Time will tell though.

 

[Splash4eva]

This is the kind of soft abuse that likely ultimately doomed the program. Few think they were “abusing” DAS, but every single person who used DAS when they didn’t need to ultimately led to its downfall. The user who really could wait in that 15 minute peoplemover line and has no problem waiting in the 20 minute Soarin LL, but used DAS for peoplemover anyway, because why not? The power users who made sure they were always doing something else taking up two spots while waiting in their virtual line because “why wouldn’t they?” “Abuse” doesn’t just mean people who lied to get DAS. It definitely includes people who used DAS when they didn’t need to.

Blaming Disney’s IT for not preventing yourself from powerusing DAS is a little much though. Getting DAS for heat sensitivity, using it for indoor queues like pirates, and then complaining when Disney ultimately has to take it away because of abuse and overuse is really something else.

So using DAS as Disney literally tells you to use it is now abuse. Got it

 

[Chip Chipperson]

So using DAS as Disney literally tells you to use it is now abuse. Got it

No, using it when you don't need it is abuse, though. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do it.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I personally like the term overuse better it feels less harsh, but at the end of the day Disney’s actions with the change make it pretty clear that using it ‘legally’ and within the confines of the program was a problem worth fixing.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Oh I missed that onethis is why we can't have nice things

Yup, my thoughts exactly. I think this problem is also more prevalent than people realized. Lots of people needed and qualified for the old DAS without needing to lie. Lots of those same people also probably did not need to use it for every single ride and maximize it. Unfortunately many/most did, and it overwhelmed the system, and that’s why many of those same people now no longer have it.

I still keep coming back to the conversation in this very thread, months ago at this point, with the user who used DAS to get front of the line access to peoplemover but also had no problem waiting in lightning lane queues (such as soarin) that are longer than the peoplmover standby line.