New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It still hate this.

I wonder if it would have worked if they had made these changes instead.

Remove all pre booking.

Limit DAS to three uses a day.

This ensures that all disabled people still receive accommodations and will be able to experience the attractions most important to them that day.

It also greatly reduces any reward for abusers.

It might have been a happy middle ground but maybe it runs into legal trouble ?

So fastpass plus without the genie fee?

Can only see one or two potential problems there

 

[Trauma]

So fastpass plus without the genie fee?

Can only see one or two potential problems there

Well it’s still a huge reduction on what’s currently available.

Currently it’s pre booking plus unlimited rides per day.

This would cut down the total number of rides possible by a wide margin.

 

[some other guy]

I remember back in the 80s when they didn't have all this and there was at least three dead in the streets of World Showcase every day

 

[Chip Chipperson]

This is a contradictory statement in my opinion.
Person A, previously qualified, their conditions as actually worsened.
The same questions, plus "more stringent" questions whatever that means.
This same person who previously qualified does not.

This person is not now magically able to wait in these queues, in fact their condition has worsened since before the pandemic and Genie+ when this person qualified with no issues and renewed regularly.

Disney answer, purchase Genie+ even though the DAS is a MUCH BETTER guest experience.

The issue is that some people equate "it's not fun" with "I can't and therefore need DAS." If there are other accommodations available that adequately and reasonably address a guest's issue then there is nothing requiring Disney to go beyond that. Just because something is less than what was received before doesn't necessarily mean it does not adequately address the need.

 

[nickys]

I think it’ll be both.
1) Certain disabilities / classifications will no longer qualify for DAS, and be accommodated in a different way.
2) They will be more stringent/discerning for those claiming developmental disabilities.

I think we are agreeing.

Yes, most who have medical conditions will not qualify for DAS but will still qualify for an alternative.

What I am saying is, they’re not just going to decide that Cerebral Palsy and Crohn’s disease no longer qualify for any accommodation.

But they will use more stringent questioning to determine exactly what accommodation is most appropriate. Not everyone with CP will be offered the same solution.

And some people will continue to be given the classic DAS, even without a developmental disability.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think the confusion comes in with thinking that DAS = disability accommodation. DAS is just Disney's system, which may have given some people more accommodation than they actually needed, even the person whose condition has worsened.

Well that is the Disney way. Charge more, provide less. Why should DAS be any different.

 

[ditzee]

So, as I ate lunch, I attempted to read the relevant section of the ADA. I've determined that laws are worded as unclearly as possible so that the lawmakers can shirk responsibility for the laws they pass and dump it on judges to "legislate from the bench" and then complain that judges do that.

First of all, the reasonable accommodation language does not appear in the section that applies to theme parks. The similar language essentially refers specifically to physical modifications.

The applicable section basically says you can't discriminate or deny access to goods and services to somebody based on their disability. If Disney eliminated DAS completely, there is a reasonable chance that they would win a suit if it was brought against them. Based upon the (overly vague and complex wording) of the actual law, you could argue that making an autistic person wait in the standby line does not deny them access to the attraction.

In their effort to serve the target audience and make the parks enjoyable for people with and without disabilities I think that Disney should provide the program for people who legitimately need it so that they (and the other people in the queue) aren't made miserable but make it as much of a PITA as possible for people trying to use the system to get free Genie+/ILL.

According to an ADA training manual dealing with public accommodations, aka, theme parks:

The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities.

The ADA asks public accommodations to take steps that are “readily achievable” or are “reasonable”or that do not constitute an “undue burden” to enable people with disabilities to be their customers and clients. These terms are explained later in the course. After taking the course, businesses that are willing to do simple, easy, and reasonable things to accommodate customers with disabilities will likely find it easy to comply with the ADA.

 

[Chi84]

According to an ADA training manual dealing with public accommodations, aka, theme parks:

The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities.

The ADA asks public accommodations to take steps that are “readily achievable” or are “reasonable”or that do not constitute an “undue burden” to enable people with disabilities to be their customers and clients. These terms are explained later in the course. After taking the course, businesses that are willing to do simple, easy, and reasonable things to accommodate customers with disabilities will likely find it easy to comply with the ADA.

So that means what for Disney though. Clearly line accommodations are not simple or easy and reasonableness needs to be addressed in terms of their impact on Disney’s business, which is considerable.

 

[DisneyCane]

According to an ADA training manual dealing with public accommodations, aka, theme parks:

The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities.

The ADA asks public accommodations to take steps that are “readily achievable” or are “reasonable”or that do not constitute an “undue burden” to enable people with disabilities to be their customers and clients. These terms are explained later in the course. After taking the course, businesses that are willing to do simple, easy, and reasonable things to accommodate customers with disabilities will likely find it easy to comply with the ADA.

Just to clarify for the discussion, "full and equal enjoyment" does not mean "enjoy the parks" from an emotional standpoint, it is a legal term. From the Cornell Law School, "Enjoyment, in a legal context, has several related meanings; but generally, it means “to exercise a right.”

The way the full text is worded, it is not cut and dried with respect to mental disabilities. Especially since Disney charges for Genie+/ILL, it could be argued that it is not reasonable to have to give up revenue to allow access to the lightning lane for free as an accommodation which takes up capacity that they can't sell without further negatively effecting the experience of non-disabled patrons.

 

[ditzee]

Just to clarify for the discussion, "full and equal enjoyment" does not mean "enjoy the parks" from an emotional standpoint, it is a legal term. From the Cornell Law School, "Enjoyment, in a legal context, has several related meanings; but generally, it means “to exercise a right.”

The way the full text is worded, it is not cut and dried with respect to mental disabilities. Especially since Disney charges for Genie+/ILL, it could be argued that it is not reasonable to have to give up revenue to allow access to the lightning lane for free as an accommodation which takes up capacity that they can't sell without further negatively effecting the experience of non-disabled patrons.

Just posted something from a training manual to point out that an ADA manual did not have "reasonable" and instead used "full and equal enjoyment".

 

[Spaceship|Earth]

Saw this today and have a ton of thoughts on this topic

I worked at a destination amusement park (Cedar Point) in guest services two years ago and did a DCP last year (albeit in concierge at a resorts). The amount of abuse I saw of the system at the amusement park I worked at was staggering, and at WDW, I witnessed many cast members and people around me at the parks when I went that I knew who abused the system as well.

In my opinion, this change is really fantastic. I completely understand that it will be a very unfortunate extra hassle for those who actually need the program, but if it even weeds out half of the people who were abusing the system, I see this as a massive win. I was very angry watching so many people abuse the system at both parks/resorts I worked at, and I really want what's beneficial to all guests and this is it. I can tell you first hand from going to the parks and talking with attractions CMs, that DAS currently accounts for most of the Lightning Lane lines, so if you've seen long LL lines that put the standby line to a halt, this is why.

I know I may have a bit of a hot take on this whole thing, but I'm currently going to school for resort and attraction management, so this is something that I personally have thought about and taken a look at these last few years. I think WDW is making a move in the right direction here.

With all due respect (and without reading most of the posts here), could you please help me understand how you and/or other CMs could be so sure of all the rampant abuse of the program you are claiming?

Not all disabilities are visible or obvious to others. As someone who will no longer qualify for DAS but certainly needs it when I need it, I'd really like to know since it seems likely that CMs would have judged me as an abuser, even though I wasn't. Not that it is up to any CMs (other than the one issuing the service) to judge.

 

[Tha Realest]

Just to clarify for the discussion, "full and equal enjoyment" does not mean "enjoy the parks" from an emotional standpoint, it is a legal term. From the Cornell Law School, "Enjoyment, in a legal context, has several related meanings; but generally, it means “to exercise a right.”

The way the full text is worded, it is not cut and dried with respect to mental disabilities. Especially since Disney charges for Genie+/ILL, it could be argued that it is not reasonable to have to give up revenue to allow access to the lightning lane for free as an accommodation which takes up capacity that they can't sell without further negatively effecting the experience of non-disabled patrons.

Not just give up revenue, but also provide accommodations in a way that fundamentally alters the company’s ability to serve other guests.

The ballooning wait times clearly does that.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Not just give up revenue, but also provide accommodations in a way that fundamentally alters the company’s ability to serve other guests.

The ballooning wait times clearly does that.

Don't worry. Once the new system is in place, all those folks who previously qualified for DAS and no longer, will purchase Genie+ and the wait times will balloon back up to what they were before the DAS change.

These folks who previously qualified for DAS and used the lighting lane are NOT going to say, "Oh well I don't qualify for DAS no more so I will just go into the stand by".

They will simply purchase Genie+, while its not as good ad DAS, it gets them BACK into the lighting lane queue and not the standby.

 

[ditzee]

Not just give up revenue, but also provide accommodations in a way that fundamentally alters the company’s ability to serve other guests.

The ballooning wait times clearly does that.

Could ballooning wait times have anything to do with guests returning to the parks after Covid?

 

[Chi84]

With all due respect (and without reading most of the posts here), could you please help me understand how you and/or other CMs could be so sure of all the rampant abuse of the program you are claiming?

It might be more sensible for you to read through the thread instead of asking people to start over.

 

[flynnibus]

I remember back in the 80s when they didn't have all this and there was at least three dead in the streets of World Showcase every day

Back then, we just rolled in the exits w/o any wait. The good ol days!

Actually had to push my father around in a wheelchair in '84 around the parks... my first exposure to VIP treatment in the parks

 

[Chi84]

Don't worry. Once the new system is in place, all those folks who previously qualified for DAS and no longer, will purchase Genie+ and the wait times will balloon back up to what they were before the DAS change.

These folks who previously qualified for DAS and used the lighting lane are NOT going to say, "Oh well I don't qualify for DAS no more so I will just go into the stand by".

They will simply purchase Genie+, while its not as good ad DAS, it gets them BACK into the lighting lane queue and not the standby.

Right, but then they’re following Disney’s business model of either standing in lines or paying to avoid them.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

DAS users typically travel in a party. That right there balloons the people associated with the program we beyond just 8%.

Yes, but they are probably also using some of their passes on rides like Imagination- currently a 5minute wait.

A number of posters to this thread appear to assume DAS pass users are requesting rides like Flight of Passage over and over, and that they are all ultra-commandos.

I'd be willing to bet many DAS users are using their passes on rides like Imagination. They do so just in case the wait gets long.

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has a disability. Odds are high they need daily living help of some kind: extra restroom time, medication, calming/quiet time, help with food/frequent snacks.

For someone with a serious medical condition, getting to the park for rope drop might not be possible. Eating lunch might take extra time. An afternoon nap/early bedtime might be essential. Overstimulation might = going back to the hotel room mid-morning and not returning to the park until the next day.

For them, an attraction like Imagination may well be THE can't miss attraction. They may well even ride it 3 times in a row.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Right, but then they’re following Disney’s business model of either standing in lines or paying to avoid them.

Disney WINS. Folks with limitations must PAY THE PRICE.

Queues - STAY THE SAME.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Just posted something from a training manual to point out that an ADA manual did not have "reasonable" and instead used "full and equal enjoyment".

Are you sure it doesn't say anything about accommodations being reasonable?

According to an ADA training manual dealing with public accommodations, aka, theme parks:

The ADA says people with disabilities are entitled to “the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations” that a public accommodation provides to its customers. In other words, every type of good or service a business provides to customers is covered by the ADA. All businesses that serve the public must provide equal opportunity for customers with disabilities.

The ADA asks public accommodations to take steps that are “readily achievable” or are “reasonable”or that do not constitute an “undue burden” to enable people with disabilities to be their customers and clients. These terms are explained later in the course. After taking the course, businesses that are willing to do simple, easy, and reasonable things to accommodate customers with disabilities will likely find it easy to comply with the ADA.