Minnesota disney fan
Well-Known Member
Thank You. It seems the same people only want to argue over and over again. We can move on now I hope.
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New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024
- Thread starter AEfx
- Start date
Fido Chuckwagon
Well-Known Member
Rider Switch is one of the areas where Disney (and Universal, which IMO has the slightly superior system) go above and beyond for everyone.
Purduevian
Well-Known Member
I think Disney vs Universal rider switch both have their pros and cons.
I went last year with just my wife and 10 month old son. I preferred Disney's method as one of us was able to take care of the baby while the other waited in the standby/vq. In universal's model we would have needed to carry the toddler through the line with us.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
Saw this on another forum just now, and it speaks a bit, I think, to the 6flags suit/documentation discussion that's been had here.
Touring Plans is reporting that getting an IBCCES card before your trip is no longer a requirement for universal. Additionally, it seems there are changes if you do get the IBcCES card (such as if, once you have the pre-trip call with universal, whatever accommodation given will be permanent - guest not required to talk with universal again, as long as the IBCCES card remains current). It also indicates Universal will be using a return to queue policy as an accommodation for some disabilities as well (like Disney).
I won't summarize the whole thing, this article shares the changes:
touringplans.com
These changes definitely address the issue of having to do IBCCES before your trip (and thus not being able to show up day of without preplanning if you choose) which is one of the main issues in that 6 Flags lawsuit. I know we haven't gotten any updates on that suit yet, but it certainly seems as if universal was not confident that aspect would be allowed to remain.
Touring Plans is reporting that getting an IBCCES card before your trip is no longer a requirement for universal. Additionally, it seems there are changes if you do get the IBcCES card (such as if, once you have the pre-trip call with universal, whatever accommodation given will be permanent - guest not required to talk with universal again, as long as the IBCCES card remains current). It also indicates Universal will be using a return to queue policy as an accommodation for some disabilities as well (like Disney).
I won't summarize the whole thing, this article shares the changes:
The IBCCES Accessibility Card is No Longer Required at Universal Parks | TouringPlans.com Blog
After less than a year, Universal theme parks have again changed their accessibility policies. The IBCCES Access Card (I
touringplans.com
These changes definitely address the issue of having to do IBCCES before your trip (and thus not being able to show up day of without preplanning if you choose) which is one of the main issues in that 6 Flags lawsuit. I know we haven't gotten any updates on that suit yet, but it certainly seems as if universal was not confident that aspect would be allowed to remain.
It sounds like they are moving to be more like Disney. When I read the article it indicates people with bathroom and mobility issues will no longer be eligible for the pass, but instead receive a return to queue accommodation. I wonder if Uni was getting a lot more people applying after Disney changed their system and Uni’s parks can’t handle that many people with their “skip the wait” program either.Saw this on another forum just now, and it speaks a bit, I think, to the 6flags suit/documentation discussion that's been had here.
Touring Plans is reporting that getting an IBCCES card before your trip is no longer a requirement for universal. Additionally, it seems there are changes if you do get the IBcCES card (such as if, once you have the pre-trip call with universal, whatever accommodation given will be permanent - guest not required to talk with universal again, as long as the IBCCES card remains current). It also indicates Universal will be using a return to queue policy as an accommodation for some disabilities as well (like Disney).
I won't summarize the whole thing, this article shares the changes:
The IBCCES Accessibility Card is No Longer Required at Universal Parks | TouringPlans.com Blog
After less than a year, Universal theme parks have again changed their accessibility policies. The IBCCES Access Card (I
These changes definitely address the issue of having to do IBCCES before your trip (and thus not being able to show up day of without preplanning if you choose) which is one of the main issues in that 6 Flags lawsuit. I know we haven't gotten any updates on that suit yet, but it certainly seems as if universal was not confident that aspect would be allowed to remain.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
I think they probably did get an increase - but that doesn't explain making IBCCES voluntary. IBCCES would - according to the popular theory anyway - allow them to weed more people out before arrival, which if they're getting overwhelmed in the system you'd think they'd want to keep (while also adding the return to queue accommodation).
Yes it sounds like maybe the lawsuit is playing into the “optional” IBCCES. Honestly people should be able to apply in person the same day, so that makes sense.
Chi84
Premium Member
If they sufficiently limit the number of people by no longer allowing the pass for people with bathroom and mobility issues, I doubt they need the IBCCES program at all. At that point, it's just a tool for people who do qualify for the program to get the pass more easily.
Sounds like Universal saw what Disney is doing and wants to go the same way.
Which is interesting as when Disney first rolled out the DAS changes, so many people commented on how universals program was better and they would only go there now. Wonder if universal will get the same backlash.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
I'm sure they will
nickys
Premium Member
A couple more possibilities.
Firstly The ICCBES card application procedure may have fallen foul of EU and UK online safety laws.
Both the UK and EU have started issuing significant fines to some large companies already and are reportedly gearing up to enforce the new laws on small to medium size companies next year. Universal might be worried about being fined if they are insisting on the card.
It could also be that they are declining more guests who already have the card and that those guests are reacting badly to finding out that having the card does not guarantee them a pass.
Firstly The ICCBES card application procedure may have fallen foul of EU and UK online safety laws.
Both the UK and EU have started issuing significant fines to some large companies already and are reportedly gearing up to enforce the new laws on small to medium size companies next year. Universal might be worried about being fined if they are insisting on the card.
It could also be that they are declining more guests who already have the card and that those guests are reacting badly to finding out that having the card does not guarantee them a pass.
I bet it confused a lot of people thinking if they were approved by ICCBES that automatically meant they would get the pass from universal.
Angel Ariel
Well-Known Member
And TBH, their process is confusing. They tell you they'll call, but we never got a call. We were just assigned a case number over email, no call follow-up, and were told to go to guest relations when we got there.
Chi84
Premium Member
I said from the very beginning of this change that Disney did not adopt a documentation requirement because it would cause them additional expense and effort without limiting access to the LLs to the extent they want.
There is definitely some risk involved to businesses who are asking for documentation, but in my opinion, Disney has chosen a much riskier legal position. I'm not going to argue with those who believe otherwise, but Disney has distinguished between people with different disabilities by saying that DAS - which is the program that allows waiting outside the line - is intended for people with developmental disabilities. That means by definition that it is not intended for people with non-developmental disabilities. Eventually someone will say this discriminates against the physically disabled who are also unable to tolerate waiting in lines.
Don't misunderstand; I don't believe Disney will lose a lawsuit on this theory but they are counting on standing in line as being an integral part of the theme park experience that they cannot give away free of charge without drastically altering their current business model. Once that is decided in their favor, DAS is a completely voluntary accommodation that is not required by the ADA and therefore completely within their discretion to allow or withhold.
If anyone has a reasonable, civil, non-snarky, non-argumentative reply, do so soon; we probably only have a week
Tigger&Pooh
Active Member
That somewhat depends on the disability and how it manifests. "Developmental disability" doesn't automatically exclude physical disabilities.
Chi84
Premium Member
I should have said distinguishes between those who have developmental disabilities and those whose disabilities are non-developmental.
Splash4eva
Well-Known Member
A week before a ruling or a week before Disney changes the guidelines againI said from the very beginning of this change that Disney did not adopt a documentation requirement because it would cause them additional expense and effort without limiting access to the LLs to the extent they want.
There is definitely some risk involved to businesses who are asking for documentation, but in my opinion, Disney has chosen a much riskier legal position. I'm not going to argue with those who believe otherwise, but Disney has distinguished between people with different disabilities by saying that DAS - which is the program that allows waiting outside the line - is intended for people with developmental disabilities. That means by definition that it is not intended for people with non-developmental disabilities. Eventually someone will say this discriminates against the physically disabled who are also unable to tolerate waiting in lines.
Don't misunderstand; I don't believe Disney will lose a lawsuit on this theory but they are counting on standing in line as being an integral part of the theme park experience that they cannot give away free of charge without drastically altering their current business model. Once that is decided in their favor, DAS is a completely voluntary accommodation that is not required by the ADA and therefore completely within their discretion to allow or withhold.
If anyone has a reasonable, civil, non-snarky, non-argumentative reply, do so soon; we probably only have a week
I don’t think it’s discriminatory. Not all disabilities require the same accommodations. They do have other accommodations available, it’s not like they are saying “too bad so sad you get no accommodations because you don’t qualify for DAS”I said from the very beginning of this change that Disney did not adopt a documentation requirement because it would cause them additional expense and effort without limiting access to the LLs to the extent they want.
There is definitely some risk involved to businesses who are asking for documentation, but in my opinion, Disney has chosen a much riskier legal position. I'm not going to argue with those who believe otherwise, but Disney has distinguished between people with different disabilities by saying that DAS - which is the program that allows waiting outside the line - is intended for people with developmental disabilities. That means by definition that it is not intended for people with non-developmental disabilities. Eventually someone will say this discriminates against the physically disabled who are also unable to tolerate waiting in lines.
Don't misunderstand; I don't believe Disney will lose a lawsuit on this theory but they are counting on standing in line as being an integral part of the theme park experience that they cannot give away free of charge without drastically altering their current business model. Once that is decided in their favor, DAS is a completely voluntary accommodation that is not required by the ADA and therefore completely within their discretion to allow or withhold.
If anyone has a reasonable, civil, non-snarky, non-argumentative reply, do so soon; we probably only have a week
Chi84
Premium Member
It's not discriminatory in the sense that you're using it. I'm not saying that Disney is not accommodating all physical disabilities or that they are prejudiced against any particular disability.
When I say Disney is distinguishing between disabilities, I'm referring solely to the DAS program and the language stating that it is intended for developmental disabilities. Disney is expressly singling out that particular type of disability from the others for purposes of the DAS program.
Tigger&Pooh
Active Member
OK, but there are a lot of disabilities -- both developmental and non-developmental -- that don't qualify for DAS. Those disabilities qualify for other accommodations. They would have to show the other accommodations don't actually meet their needs and despite that they were denied DAS. Just refusing to try other accommodations doesn't necessarily show that.