New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Disstevefan1]

WDW is a multi-national for profit fortune 500 publicly traded company. It is a business, and needs to operate like any large business does, whether its in the service industry, or production industry.

With tens of millions of customers every day, you are not working on a bespoke business model. You work on figures, trends, averages and tendencies. The way any large business does. Its absurd to think any other way, not on the scale of business that WDW runs.

Sad but true. Thanks for your correction.

And yes, Disney's theme park business has been operating like this for a very long time.

 

[Chi84]

With autism there is absolutely anecdotal evidence of them effectively saying, you're not autistic enough.

They aren’t saying a person isn’t autistic enough; they’re saying that based on what they hear in the interview the person can be accommodated short of receiving DAS. For example, they may be able to wait outside the line and meet their party at the merge point.

In the GAC to DAS case, the court recognized that the plaintiff had autism, but concluded that he could be accommodated short of receiving GAC. This is the same sort of situation but with DAS.

 

[flynnibus]

Sorry I must have misunderstood the bolded portion. So, you are saying Disney intended to enhance the potential experience for DAS users in comparison to the legally minimum required? That I would understand and agree with. I thought you were claiming the intent was an enhanced potential experience over non-DAS users.

Don't extend what was written... enhance THEIR experience. Meaning, their experience vs their experience under a different world with no such assistance. It's about their experience in two situations... not their experience vs others.

"Disney has had decades of systems intended to not just do the minimum, but to actually ENHANCE potential experience for these kinds of guests"

Meaning, for those kinds of guests, the assistance allowed those guests not only to participate, but to do more than they could have done otherwise on their own. Meaning... not only what was necessary to get you 'in' or 'on' the ride, but they did things that they knew would ease the person's burdens and help them... and usually mean they could get more out of their experience vs what their experience would have been like without any customer support.

This is relevant because in the conversation about someone with say... limited stamina. A system that tries to aid that person may result in them being able to do MORE than they could have done without assistance. Disney was doing this as a form of guest relations/customer support long before they were legally obligated to ensure accessibility.

It was a happy symbiosis of happy customers -> good business sense. The problem becomes when people start being selfish and abuse the gratuity..

The point was Disney's old approaches were not just 'accessiblity' - they were embracing and HELPING customers in need to improve customer satisfaction. It's the kind of approach that old Disney had that cemented their reputation as a service leader.

 

[flynnibus]

With autism there is absolutely anecdotal evidence of them effectively saying, you're not autistic enough.

And that's bad why? I mean, we use the term 'spectrum' for a reason - because there is a wide range of behaviors. Why should there be some all-in or all-out label?

I have back issues - yet, my limitations differ compared to someone else's. Should my accommodations be the same as everyone else who says "I have back issues" ??

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

And yes, Disney's theme park business has been operating like this for a very long time.

Long indeed. It has always operated this way, including when Walt was it's head.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Long indeed. It has always operated this way, including when Walt was it's head.

Legend has it, Walt and Roy fought over Roy wanting to operate "this way" and Walt wanting to do it his way, the right way.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

We all are keenly aware that Disney has been cutting back on the customer experience for all guests for years. Beyond altering who DAS is designed for, guests also lost checked luggage going straight to room, Magical Express, daily housekeeping, room upgrades, the number of park hours in a day, the amount of time resort guests for Extra Magic Hours, live entertainment and probably more that I can't think of.

We all mourn the yesterdays of exceptional guest service from Disney. This is where we are.

Don't extend what was written... enhance THEIR experience. Meaning, their experience vs their experience under a different world with no such assistance. It's about their experience in two situations... not their experience vs others.

"Disney has had decades of systems intended to not just do the minimum, but to actually ENHANCE potential experience for these kinds of guests"

Meaning, for those kinds of guests, the assistance allowed those guests not only to participate, but to do more than they could have done otherwise on their own. Meaning... not only what was necessary to get you 'in' or 'on' the ride, but they did things that they knew would ease the person's burdens and help them... and usually mean they could get more out of their experience vs what their experience would have been like without any customer support.

This is relevant because in the conversation about someone with say... limited stamina. A system that tries to aid that person may result in them being able to do MORE than they could have done without assistance. Disney was doing this as a form of guest relations/customer support long before they were legally obligated to ensure accessibility.

It was a happy symbiosis of happy customers -> good business sense. The problem becomes when people start being selfish and abuse the gratuity..

The point was Disney's old approaches were not just 'accessiblity' - they were embracing and HELPING customers in need to improve customer satisfaction. It's the kind of approach that old Disney had that cemented their reputation as a service leader.

These two posts go so well together. Disneys changes towards DAS guests is just an extension of it’s overall change, Disney used to go above and beyond for everyone because it was good for business, the downgrade in service and perks isn’t just for DAS guests, it’s across the board. Everyone is getting less.

Disney has been known for their outstanding guest service for 50+ years, that reputation is fading.

 

[Disstevefan1]

We all are keenly aware that Disney has been cutting back on the customer experience for all guests for years. Beyond altering who DAS is designed for, guests also lost checked luggage going straight to room, Magical Express, daily housekeeping, room upgrades, the number of park hours in a day, the amount of time resort guests for Extra Magic Hours, live entertainment and probably more that I can't think of.

We all mourn the yesterdays of exceptional guest service from Disney. This is where we are.

Totally agree. For all those who defend Disney for running their business by the book as a business should, there was a time the guest experience mattered to Disney.

Disney's concern for the guest experience has greatly declined in recent times in my opinion.

 

[Purduevian]

Don't extend what was written... enhance THEIR experience. Meaning, their experience vs their experience under a different world with no such assistance. It's about their experience in two situations... not their experience vs others.

"Disney has had decades of systems intended to not just do the minimum, but to actually ENHANCE potential experience for these kinds of guests"

Thank you for the explanation. The original post was ambiguous as to what the comparison was to with the word "enhance". Sorry for extending what was written, but I honestly didn't know without your follow up if the comparison was made in regards to:
-Guest that required DAS but didn't get it anything
-Guest that required DAS but got the legally requirement minimum
-Guest that did not require DAS

I agree that Disney used to go above and beyond for those guests, and I would argue that those that this is still the case for those that currently do receive DAS.

 

[DryerLintFan]

With autism there is absolutely anecdotal evidence of them effectively saying, you're not autistic enough.

And that's bad why? I mean, we use the term 'spectrum' for a reason - because there is a wide range of behaviors. Why should there be some all-in or all-out label?

I have back issues - yet, my limitations differ compared to someone else's. Should my accommodations be the same as everyone else who says "I have back issues" ??

Just wanted to amplify what Eugene Fitzherbert said here.

People keep conveniently forgetting that DAS is based on an individuals capabilities in the face of their disability. Not all people with disabilities or with certain disabilities.

 

[Angel Ariel]

People keep conveniently forgetting that DAS is based on an individuals capabilities in the face of their disability. Not all people with disabilities or with certain disabilities.

I understand this for sure, and agree with it. That said, I have read reports from people who describe similar needs as another and one is denied and one is approved (Please note I'm saying needs, not diagnosis. I mean similar *needs*). This kind of inconsistency is what many are finding confusing and frustrating.

 

[jennab55]

I understand this for sure, and agree with it. That said, I have read reports from people who describe similar needs as another and one is denied and one is approved (Please note I'm saying needs, not diagnosis. I mean similar *needs*). This kind of inconsistency is what many are finding confusing and frustrating.

But we honestly have no idea how their conversations went. Someone could explain their needs to you in detail and you understand, but then not explain those needs very well to the CM…. It’s really hard to know what happens during the conversations because we aren’t there. We also don’t know (and shouldn’t know) what the CMs policies are.

 

[Angel Ariel]

But we honestly have no idea how their conversations went. Someone could explain their needs to you in detail and you understand, but then not explain those needs very well to the CM…. It’s really hard to know what happens during the conversations because we aren’t there. We also don’t know (and shouldn’t know) what the CMs policies are.

I understand that and am not debating that at all. I'm not assuming what's happening during the conversations, just stating that it's a source of frustration and confusion for many - and it is.

 

[DryerLintFan]

I understand this for sure, and agree with it. That said, I have read reports from people who describe similar needs as another and one is denied and one is approved (Please note I'm saying needs, not diagnosis. I mean similar *needs*). This kind of inconsistency is what many are finding confusing and frustrating.

I think this comes down to the CMs. I keep reading about people who get denied and call back and get someone else and get approved. It’s really unfortunate that it’s not more consistent.

Having debilitating disabilities has taught me that living in America with disabilities is largely dependent on luck. Lucky enough to get a supportive workplace, an accommodating restaurant, an understanding judge. A grocery delivery person that puts things on your stoop instead of by your back door. A neighbor who’s kind enough to shovel your sidewalks before the kids walk to school. It’s hard. You cannot count on luck. And it sucks that DAS is now somewhat “am i lucky enough to get a CM who understands what I’m saying”. It is frustrating. I hear you.

But i don’t know how to fix that aside from those of us with disabilities reassessing our expectations. DAS isn’t meant to be an umbrella coverage.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think this comes down to the CMs. I keep reading about people who get denied and call back and get someone else and get approved. It’s really unfortunate that it’s not more consistent.

Having debilitating disabilities has taught me that living in America with disabilities is largely dependent on luck. Lucky enough to get a supportive workplace, an accommodating restaurant, an understanding judge. A grocery delivery person that puts things on your stoop instead of by your back door. A neighbor who’s kind enough to shovel your sidewalks before the kids walk to school. It’s hard. You cannot count on luck. And it sucks that DAS is now somewhat “am i lucky enough to get a CM who understands what I’m saying”. It is frustrating. I hear you.

But i don’t know how to fix that aside from those of us with disabilities reassessing our expectations. DAS isn’t meant to be an umbrella coverage.

My daughter has significant disabilities and is minimally speaking. I appreciate what you're sharing about luck ❤- but it's also not just luck. It's the sheer amount of time and advocacy - and honestly fight - needed to just exist. Between medical systems, school accommodations, and just trying to find accessible ways for her to access anything even remotely like her same age peers without being entirely segregated - it's just massive.

I am glad she still qualifies for DAS, as it's one accommodation that actually met her needs (not exceeded, but met) that wasn't a fight.

 

[DisneyHead123]

And that's bad why? I mean, we use the term 'spectrum' for a reason - because there is a wide range of behaviors. Why should there be some all-in or all-out label?

I have back issues - yet, my limitations differ compared to someone else's. Should my accommodations be the same as everyone else who says "I have back issues" ??

I think the purported issue (I'll say purported because it's based on anecdotal reports that I don't claim to have verified) is that Disney is supposedly using shallow metrics to assess complex issues. They are eyeballing a kid or adult on a video screen and if they're someone who can 'pass' as neurotypical, they probably don't qualify. They're not giving them a rating scale, they're not having a psychologist do a mini assessment, etc. There are many domains that can be affected in things like autism, PDA, ADHD, etc. A child who has precocious language, good adaptive skills, and can mask very well might still have crippling anxiety, or excruciating sensory processing issues, or an explosive temper, etc.

I don't pretend to know what the answer to all this is, I really don't. Because in addition to people with classic "invisible disabilities", there are people who will straight up try to cheat the system, and that's the thing about invisible disabilities - they have the name "invisible" for a reason. They're not something you can have someone take a blood test for, ergo it's easy for people to just lie about them when they're incentivized to do so. But just trying to provide some context regarding the question you asked. I think going to medical documentation might be a start - not a perfect solution, but a start.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think the purported issue (I'll say purported because it's based on anecdotal reports that I don't claim to have verified) is that Disney is supposedly using shallow metrics to assess complex issues. They are eyeballing a kid or adult on a video screen and if they're someone who can 'pass' as neurotypical, they probably don't qualify. They're not giving them a rating scale, they're not having a psychologist do a mini assessment, etc. There are many domains that can be affected in things like autism, PDA, ADHD, etc. A child who has precocious language, good adaptive skills, and can mask very well might still have crippling anxiety, or excruciating sensory processing issues, or an explosive temper, etc.

I don't pretend to know what the answer to all this is, I really don't. Because in addition to people with classic "invisible disabilities", there are people who will straight up try to cheat the system, and that's the thing about invisible disabilities - they have the name "invisible" for a reason. They're not something you can have someone take a blood test for, ergo it's easy for people to just lie about them when they're incentivized to do so. But just trying to provide some context regarding the question you asked. I think going to medical documentation might be a start - not a perfect solution, but a start.

Honestly, there's all kinds of issues with medical documentation. Especially in a country like ours where healthcare isn't as accessible as it needs to be in the first place. It took me a week of back and forth with DD's ped to get the documentation for IBCCES/universal. Thankfully in our plan it was all free, and electronic so very accessible - but I know that isn't the case for all.

Plus, there are shady docs who will just sign off on anything. I hate to say that, but there are. And people who will fake documentation.

Medical documentation for this is to be a bit like TSA - theatre more than actual protection.

 

[DryerLintFan]

I think the purported issue (I'll say purported because it's based on anecdotal reports that I don't claim to have verified) is that Disney is supposedly using shallow metrics to assess complex issues. They are eyeballing a kid or adult on a video screen and if they're someone who can 'pass' as neurotypical, they probably don't qualify. They're not giving them a rating scale, they're not having a psychologist do a mini assessment, etc. There are many domains that can be affected in things like autism, PDA, ADHD, etc. A child who has precocious language, good adaptive skills, and can mask very well might still have crippling anxiety, or excruciating sensory processing issues, or an explosive temper, etc.

I don't pretend to know what the answer to all this is, I really don't. Because in addition to people with classic "invisible disabilities", there are people who will straight up try to cheat the system, and that's the thing about invisible disabilities - they have the name "invisible" for a reason. They're not something you can have someone take a blood test for, ergo it's easy for people to just lie about them when they're incentivized to do so. But just trying to provide some context regarding the question you asked. I think going to medical documentation might be a start - not a perfect solution, but a start.

I mask really really well. These days it’s my only super power. When i called i got the full interview, was not shut down, and i felt heard.

Anecdotes are difficult because there’s no way of telling how many experiences are in each category. If someone has a bad experience, they’re more likely to post about it. If someone has a good experience, they’re more likely to sigh with relief and move on with their day.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

They aren’t saying a person isn’t autistic enough; they’re saying that based on what they hear in the interview the person can be accommodated short of receiving DAS. For example, they may be able to wait outside the line and meet their party at the merge point.

Just wanted to share, that I asked about his accommodation at several rides, before entering the queue, and some CM's gave me the blank state. I asked multiple ways if there was a way to leave the queue if I had a medical need to leave, and I was told I'd have to go to the back of the line if I had to left the queue. The Tron CM's were especially clueless.

The CM's at some rides were better, like small world. I only asked at a few rides because the parks were pretty empty. (We used LL passes, and/or did short queue attractions, and/or I forgot to ask.)

In many cases, I thought about the idea of exiting queues, and getting out of many queues would be really difficult, and not really feasible for anyone using a wheelchair or EVC.

Speaking of Tron, anyone using an ECV has to transfer to a wheelchair. but the provided wheelchairs are very wide with bulky footrests. We watched as someone tried to go through the Tron queue, and there are several spots where the Tron queue appeared to be too narrow and angled for the wheelchair to fit. Maybe technically the hall is wide enough (1/2inch?), but it did not appear to have enough space (due to the abrupt angles of the queue) for a person to remain seated in the wheelchair. From what we saw, the person had to walk and the wheelchair had to be partly closed to fit through the queue.

 

[Chi84]

Just wanted to share, that I asked about his accommodation at several rides, before entering the queue, and some CM's gave me the blank state. I asked multiple ways if there was a way to leave the queue if I had a medical need to leave, and I was told I'd have to go to the back of the line if I had to left the queue. The Tron CM's were especially clueless.

The CM's at some rides were better, like small world. I only asked at a few rides because the parks were pretty empty. (We used LL passes, and/or did short queue attractions, and/or I forgot to ask.)

In many cases, I thought about the idea of exiting queues, and getting out of many queues would be really difficult, and not really feasible for anyone using a wheelchair or EVC.

Speaking of Tron, anyone using an ECV has to transfer to a wheelchair. but the provided wheelchairs are very wide with bulky footrests. We watched as someone tried to go through the Tron queue, and there are several spots where the Tron queue appeared to be too narrow and angled for the wheelchair to fit. Maybe technically the hall is wide enough (1/2inch?), but it did not appear to have enough space (due to the abrupt angles of the queue) for a person to remain seated in the wheelchair. From what we saw, the person had to walk and the wheelchair had to be partly closed to fit through the queue.

That’s not very encouraging.