New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
I completely agree with you that people who were the original (and current?) intended target for DAS were not cheating anything and I’d go a step further and say everybody else approved for DAS (without lying or exaggerating) wasn’t cheating anything either— the horrible problem is that plenty of people were cheating (either outright lying or significant exaggerating) because the DAS experience is so much better than G+ if you can also wait in 15-30 minute queues all day with or without other medical problems. The total number of people (DASholder and boarding group members) was unsustainable for Disney— so Disney dramatically narrowed inclusion to families who they think can’t/won’t use it to get on more rides than the average non-DAS guest.

Unfortunately, in addition to the outright cheaters, Disney now created this new class of extremely entitled ex-DAS user who genuinely believe they deserve to be able to use DAS (often doubling up with Genie+ or ILL) and that Disney made an illegitimate choice because: “AQR just won’t work for me” or “how can you expect my medical condition to prevent me from doing 7DMT at the exact same time as my kids and their spouses and their kids in our party of 8?”, etc. We’ve already seen people on boards shamelessly suggest they will manipulate their friends and family on their account to try to get around new DAS restrictions and I’m certain that many users with children who meet criteria for AQR or other limited accommodations are going to claim their children are much higher needs levels and they won’t even see themselves as fakers. I know someone who told me her daughter needed it for her ADHD and said daughter had an IEP so they had legal documentation…that might sound reasonable but that daughter is also currently attending an elite university, I pushed back gently and she told me that everybody does it and it’s Disney’s fault for making trips so expensive. Many people have convinced themselves it’s a victimless crime and/or they’re going to “stick it to the mouse” as an act of social justice. Others are saying they will sue because their medical issues don’t get the exact same treatment as major developmental disability limitations.

Because so many people are sure they are morally/legally entitled, I don’t think that just tightening the rules is going to be enough to save the system—I fear Disney will ultimately end the program and point to a 500% rise in severe [DAS qualifying conditions] in the inevitable litigation. I don’t know what the answer is, but Disney has access to a lot of data to do a better job sorting the outright fakers and liars from the new target audience and I hope they start making examples of people who used to travel as parties of 8 and are suddenly now “6 parties of severely autistic adults, 2 of whom have caretakers.”

I truly hope that DAS stays available for people (especially children) who genuinely can’t get on most rides without them, and the best way to do it is to make the product less desirable for fakers or seriously deter the people looking to exploit the system by enforcing real consequences. I don’t think they need to catch everyone—just identifying 10-25% of people who claimed a condition that one or more people in their party don’t actually have and banning them from the parks for a decade would seriously cut down on abuse.
My son has an IEP for ADHD and I have never considered using it. He struggles in lines but it is not impossible, and we choose to skip lines where it's just too much or get genie. Unfortunately many people have used it, I have heard this too, and the system was starting to effect everyone. It's a really tricky thing. That said if people who were abusing it now dont want to go at all if they can't get it, I am happy to not have to share space in WDW with such people.
 
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Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
I completely agree with you that people who were the original (and current?) intended target for DAS were not cheating anything and I’d go a step further and say everybody else approved for DAS (without lying or exaggerating) wasn’t cheating anything either— the horrible problem is that plenty of people were cheating (either outright lying or significant exaggerating) because the DAS experience is so much better than G+ if you can also wait in 15-30 minute queues all day with or without other medical problems. The total number of people (DASholder and boarding group members) was unsustainable for Disney— so Disney dramatically narrowed inclusion to families who they think can’t/won’t use it to get on more rides than the average non-DAS guest.

Unfortunately, in addition to the outright cheaters, Disney now created this new class of extremely entitled ex-DAS user who genuinely believe they deserve to be able to use DAS (often doubling up with Genie+ or ILL) and that Disney made an illegitimate choice because: “AQR just won’t work for me” or “how can you expect my medical condition to prevent me from doing 7DMT at the exact same time as my kids and their spouses and their kids in our party of 8?”, etc. We’ve already seen people on boards shamelessly suggest they will manipulate their friends and family on their account to try to get around new DAS restrictions and I’m certain that many users with children who meet criteria for AQR or other limited accommodations are going to claim their children are much higher needs levels and they won’t even see themselves as fakers. I know someone who told me her daughter needed it for her ADHD and said daughter had an IEP so they had legal documentation…that might sound reasonable but that daughter is also currently attending an elite university, I pushed back gently and she told me that everybody does it and it’s Disney’s fault for making trips so expensive. Many people have convinced themselves it’s a victimless crime and/or they’re going to “stick it to the mouse” as an act of social justice. Others are saying they will sue because their medical issues don’t get the exact same treatment as major developmental disability limitations.

Because so many people are sure they are morally/legally entitled, I don’t think that just tightening the rules is going to be enough to save the system—I fear Disney will ultimately end the program and point to a 500% rise in severe [DAS qualifying conditions] in the inevitable litigation. I don’t know what the answer is, but Disney has access to a lot of data to do a better job sorting the outright fakers and liars from the new target audience and I hope they start making examples of people who used to travel as parties of 8 and are suddenly now “6 parties of severely autistic adults, 2 of whom have caretakers.”

I truly hope that DAS stays available for people (especially children) who genuinely can’t get on most rides without them, and the best way to do it is to make the product less desirable for fakers or seriously deter the people looking to exploit the system by enforcing real consequences. I don’t think they need to catch everyone—just identifying 10-25% of people who claimed a condition that one or more people in their party don’t actually have and banning them from the parks for a decade would seriously cut down on abuse.
I have agreed numerous times in this thread that there are truly people who were cheating, and that there needed to be changes to the program because of that. It's a long thread so it's easy to get lost, but most people here have recognized that need.
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
I think really for me, I need to get off of the clock app. Going off of there you would think it was the literal end of the world. I understand completely the amount of anxiety that comes from having to navigate something completely new and still not well defined.

The amount of people on there that seem to think DAS is literally the only accommodation in the entire world that will meet their needs, that Disney is not ADA compliant, and telling everybody to sue them is really alarming.

Most people haven't even tried any alternative accommodation and they're automatically assuming they're not going to work.

I think that's what it gets me a little bit. The sheer amount of doom and gloom regarding newer systems that very few people have even tried yet.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
I think really for me, I need to get off of the clock app. Going off of there you would think it was the literal end of the world. I understand completely the amount of anxiety that comes from having to navigate something completely new and still not well defined.

The amount of people on there that seem to think DAS is literally the only accommodation in the entire world that will meet their needs, that Disney is not ADA compliant, and telling everybody to sue them is really alarming.

Most people haven't even tried any alternative accommodation and they're automatically assuming they're not going to work.

I think that's what it gets me a little bit. The sheer amount of doom and gloom regarding newer systems that very few people have even tried yet.
To be fair, I think that people are more familiar with their medical issues than anyone on here. It is not like most have not been to the parks many, many times. Many even before they had medical issues, or had a loved one with medical issues, so they are more than familiar with how things work. Knowing that and knowing their own body, it is not that hard to know how things will play out. Dismissing people's concerns and genuine medical issues is not helping anyone and it comes off as condescending.
 

Purduevian

Well-Known Member
I really wish people wouldn't call it a line skip system because the wait time to ride is equal or greater than the actual line
I mean it is a skip the (physical)line system, it's just not a skip the wait system. It's a VQ

But please remember that you are talking about people with disabilities. You’re assuming they have it as easy as non disabled persons, which is not true.

Also, the idea of containing people in a room is off-putting, to put it mildly.
There are a wide range of people with disabilities. While waiting for DAS some could literally do anything in the park as long as it was under a certain time threshold. While others could be given the old GAC system and only do a handful of things a day.

The idea of containing people in a room is brought up often on here because it closer simulates what the standby guests are doing (which is what DAS is supposed to be the alternative to). There are many issues with it, but contained in a room is closer to contained in a line than free roaming the park.
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
To be fair, I think that people are more familiar with their medical issues than anyone on here. It is not like most have not been to the parks many, many times. Many even before they had medical issues, or had a loved one with medical issues, so they are more than familiar with how things work. Knowing that and knowing their own body, it is not that hard to know how things will play out. Dismissing people's concerns and genuine medical issues is not helping anyone and it comes off as condescending.
It's not so much as dismissing as it is realizing that people are getting a little bit apocalyptic about it unessarily. Just like they do anytime disney changes anything.

It's one of those situations where everybody might agree that something needs to be done as long as the person who pays the price is the other person and not me. That's unrealistic.

I believe sharing information is definitely warrant, helping other people navigate the uncertainty however , one ten is important. I feel this forum has been great about that. But the wider social media definitely not so much. They are spreading misinformation in mass and inciting hysteria.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
It's not so much as dismissing as it is realizing that people are getting a little bit apocalyptic about it unessarily. Just like they do anytime disney changes anything.

It's one of those situations where everybody might agree that something needs to be done as long as the person who pays the price is the other person and not me. That's unrealistic.

I believe sharing information is definitely warrant, helping other people navigate the uncertainty however , one ten is important. I feel this forum has been great about that. But the wider social media definitely not so much. They are spreading misinformation in mass and inciting hysteria.
I haven't seen what you are saying. People have legitimate concerns that they are allowed to express. What is going on is people are being very dismissive towards them and that is not right. You have to remember that people have to live with their disabilities every single day of their lives.
And Disney hasn't really done much to belay those concerns.
So people coming on here and telling those with disabilities the equivalent to "calm down", does in fact come off as condescending and dismissive. You might not feel that way, but others certainly do.
I think that if someone has concerns, they are allowed to express them without being immediately told they are being "hysterical", as you just did. JMO
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
I haven't seen what you are saying. People have legitimate concerns that they are allowed to express. What is going on is people are being very dismissive towards them and that is not right. You have to remember that people have to live with their disabilities every single day of their lives.
And Disney hasn't really done much to belay those concerns.
So people coming on here and telling those with disabilities the equivalent to "calm down", does in fact come off as condescending and dismissive. You might not feel that way, but others certainly do.
I think that if someone has concerns, they are allowed to express them without being immediately told they are being "hysterical", as you just did. JMO
In all fairness, in my post, I did state it was related to videos I saw on TicTok. There is so much misinformation being spread there that when I point it out to multiple people that there is a difference between RTQ and AQR, they were genuinely flabbergasted.

I also did state that here was a lot different in my follow on post.

And it's not like I am not empathetic, I do live with a disability every single day. Dr's are constantly dumbfounded by my skewed pain scale because of it.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
I haven't seen what you are saying. People have legitimate concerns that they are allowed to express. What is going on is people are being very dismissive towards them and that is not right. You have to remember that people have to live with their disabilities every single day of their lives.
And Disney hasn't really done much to belay those concerns.
So people coming on here and telling those with disabilities the equivalent to "calm down", does in fact come off as condescending and dismissive. You might not feel that way, but others certainly do.
I think that if someone has concerns, they are allowed to express them without being immediately told they are being "hysterical", as you just did. JMO
There is a difference between voicing concerns and being unreasonable. This thread has seen both. Some people have legitimate concerns but seem to be the exact type of case that will still get DAS -although it is perfectly understandable that they'd be anxious about it before they know for sure that they'll be approved. Others are taking an unreasonable stance that anyone who says they need DAS must be given that exact accomodation without question - even though we've seen multiple examples of people using DAS when they don't actually need it, people saying they got it in the past for reasons that absolutely don't impair their ability to wait in line, etc. The hard line of "Nobody can question anything people claim about their needs" is a cop-out that only aims to attempt to shut down a discussion. We've already seen examples in this thread of "needs" being confused for "wants."
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
Also, I completely get concerns about AQR for those with mobility aids like scooters; trying to turn that around in a line would be a nightmare.

For those that don't use them though, Just in case it alleviates stress, my family has used this many times in the past when it wasn't even an official thing with no problems. Regardless of all the planning, small kids can't always hold it. Granted I did have a husband to stay in the line while I took the other one.
 

Ayla

Well-Known Member
I think you'd have an easier time with this argument if people were given an air conditioned room to wait in and do nothing else except play on, their phone or watch Disney movies. Instead they often ride other rides (in the regular queue or via G+), go watch a show, etc. So while yes you're actually waiting an amount of time, the system allows you to double dip, effectively getting twice as much done as someone just in a standby queue. This is one of the reasons that the majority of people using it were doing so for convenience, not for a disability which made it impossible for them to wait in a standby queue.
An air-conditioned room we can sit in, with a bathroom nearby and then brought to the front of the line when our time is up? Sign me up!
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I haven't seen what you are saying. People have legitimate concerns that they are allowed to express. What is going on is people are being very dismissive towards them and that is not right. You have to remember that people have to live with their disabilities every single day of their lives.
And Disney hasn't really done much to belay those concerns.
So people coming on here and telling those with disabilities the equivalent to "calm down", does in fact come off as condescending and dismissive. You might not feel that way, but others certainly do.
I think that if someone has concerns, they are allowed to express them without being immediately told they are being "hysterical", as you just did. JMO
But you’re objecting to that poster’s characterization of the comments without having seen the comments.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I mean it is a skip the (physical)line system, it's just not a skip the wait system. It's a VQ


There are a wide range of people with disabilities. While waiting for DAS some could literally do anything in the park as long as it was under a certain time threshold. While others could be given the old GAC system and only do a handful of things a day.

The idea of containing people in a room is brought up often on here because it closer simulates what the standby guests are doing (which is what DAS is supposed to be the alternative to). There are many issues with it, but contained in a room is closer to contained in a line than free roaming the park.
Disney won’t do this because of the optics of containing disabled persons in a big room. I’m not speaking to the practicality or legality. My opinion only.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Disney won’t do this because of the optics of containing disabled persons in a big room. I’m not speaking to the practicality or legality. My opinion only.
Agreed. This would actually be a very easy and legally defendable accommodation. Under the ADA reasonable accommodations are meant to allow someone to perform a task/experience something in as close to the circumstances as someone without a need for an accommodation does. It is not meant to make things better/easier than the standard experience.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Agreed. This would actually be a very easy and legally defendable accommodation. Under the ADA reasonable accommodations are meant to allow someone to perform a task/experience something in as close to the circumstances as someone without a need for an accommodation does. It is not meant to make things better/easier than the standard experience.
If you just ignore all of the guidance about not separating people and the massive amount of space it would require.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
If you just ignore all of the guidance about not separating people and the massive amount of space it would require.
There is no guidance on line accommodations. That’s the problem. This element Is unique and I believe Disney and other theme parks would welcome guidance.

What sections are you referring to as “all the guidance”? Not doubting, it’s an honest question.
 

Mem11

Active Member
When I looked I just took the Granted and Denied figures.

Anyone being given RTQ or other options has been denied the actual DAS, therefore I assumed they are a subset of denied.

Otherwise it’s a crap poll.
Can't be a subset of denied, because RTQ & Other add up to more then those that answered No and you can only answer once.

Yes, it is a crap poll. The only choices should have been Approved or Denied.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
There is no guidance on line accommodations. That’s the problem. This element Is unique and I believe Disney and other theme parks would welcome guidance.

What sections are you referring to as “all the guidance”? Not doubting, it’s an honest question.
Things like not being allowed to just group all wheelchair seats together. Or having to disperse hotel rooms across a facility and view types. Or parking spaces having to be dispersed across lots. Not being allowed to have separate accessible restrooms. The main entrance being the main accessible entrance. Over and over again in the existing regulations there is an emphasis on integration. That’s a primary purpose of the law. Just because it’s not specific to line accommodations doesn’t mean everything else will just be ignored.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
If you just ignore all of the guidance about not separating people and the massive amount of space it would require.
the "massive space" is a logistical issue. Has no bearing on the legality of the solution, or the simplicity/ease of it. In fact, if this would get to court as argument, it would likely be Disney arguing that building separate waiting area's into each of its rides to accommodate people is too intrusive/expensive an undertaking to render it an unreasonable accommodation, as opposed to people arguing legally it was an insufficient accommodation.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Happy Monday folks, it’s 12:30 in Orlando and while AK and MK look nice, line lengths are a bit high at Epcot and are miserable at DHS

IMG_4827.jpeg
IMG_4828.jpeg
 

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