New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[flynnibus]

The return to line system is still going to be a total #@%A unless Disney makes some major changes we don't know about yet.

1) Disney's only statements on it so far have been obtuse and completely devoid of information.. basically saying "see a CM" nothing more and acknowledging the process may differ attraction to attraction

2) No we don't know exactly what the process is or 'confirmed' yet - the posters acting like it's just LL and wait at merge are really stretching the comments made so far into 'it is known'. No, it's not yet.

And why isn't simply LL and wait at merge an answer you should sleep soundly with...

1 - Scale - Let's take any average headliner.. say BTMRR. This ride has a throughput of over 2,000 riders an hour. That means if the standby wait is 45mins (very typical).. there will have been 1500 people in the queues ahead of you. If only 1 out of 100 people decide to use the return system... that means there will be at least 15 people trying to wait at merge during that hour. And conversely, for each person who left the line, there can be an unknown number of people who might have to wait for that person at merge in the standby line if they get there first.

Now we already know from Len's data, that the DAS user population far far far exceeds 1%. If it's 30%.. you now have 600 people an hour trying to 'wait at merge' in some form. Where are 600 people an hour going to be put??

2 - The LL is not an open lane itself - The LLs themselves backup. Yes in theory without the DAS explosion of people, there should be less people in the LL line.. but we know G+ will offset some of that too. Plus, the line is basically never zero. So how are these 'returners' getting to merge? They have to wait in line along with the rest of the LL users. Don't you think when the person is getting hammered with text messages "we are waiting!" there isn't going to be a source of conflict for people who don't want to wait in that LL line and think they need to push forward to meet their group?

3 - The use of merge point as the single point of rejoining the line makes it a major choke point - You can't have free roam to rejoin the line at any point for numerous issues... but to force merge to be the only reunification point concentrates all the traffic and holding needs into a single spot... with all the area around it already committed to PEOPLE IN LINE.

4 - 'open to everyone' is a mess - People who dismiss who will attempt to use this.. it won't just be former DAS users. Have you never seen the 'send one person ahead and we'll catch up with you' families? That will be used rampantly as a replacement for G+. The better the system works, the worst this problem will become because it will be more attractive. Send 'dad' to wait in line, while mom and kids go and do other rides while 'dad' saves their spot in line. "text me when you get close and we'll come back". Thus compounding the scale issues. The longer the attraction's wait time, the more lucrative this model becomes.

Without any real checks on maximum time out of line - there is no reason this model can't be gamed to avoid your whole group waiting in line. Your next version of "paid tour guides" will be "paid line mules".

4 - Those that question the angst and upset people about people passing them in line, etc. Remember, not everyone understands all the systems going on in the park. A big part of the angst over Fastpass lines and people being bothered about 'hey, why are they able to go up there??' is because people didn't KNOW how Fastpass worked or that it was open to everyone.. even though it was in every park map handed out, and endless other sources of information. Add in frustration... and people get upset about watching people 'not having to wait like we are...'. Anytime you put people in a queue, and they see another queue not suffering the same as they are, you are creating angst in that population.

5 - The lightning lane isn't always near the standby queue - In many attractions the switch backs for standby aren't even near the LL queue. And even when it is, the queues aren't labeled - guests are only expected to move along paths that are open. So how will rando guest know how and where to duck out of the standby line?

6 - Movement between queues isn't really accessible friendly - There generally isn't free movement between the queues... and the population that may actually need this for physical limitations aren't going to be population ducking under railings, or jumping rails, etc. So what do those people do when they decide they need to leave NOW? They'll be forced to push through the line in some way (forward or back) to try to find a bail out point. Now you're back to the really problematic situation of people moving through queues separate from the line.

Then you have all the gaming situations...
How long till you see teens gaming the system, knowingly ducking into the LL and going to merge and claiming ignorance.. the CM can't send them back to their original spot... and Disney isn't going to kick them out.. they'll sweet talk their way into being let back into the line at merge.

What will Disney's 'pressure relief' system be when too many people start leaving the queue or trying to return to merge point? Disney will have no recourse but to just insert those people into the line at merge without making them wait longer. So literally, if more people use it, they will basically force Disney to make it better for abusers...

This concept only really works in finite situations and in small scale. You're literally starting with a situation where a HUGE percentage of your population are being told this is your alternative... and you have the rest of the park population waiting to exploit this for their own individual gains.

This will be a nightmare if they just assume they can say 'exit the LL lane, and get a pass to return and wait at merge' - that is such an inadequate solution.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

All I am saying is if we are now conditioned to think a 60 minute wait time is a very low wait time then the system is broken and Disney has won since park guests don't even realize it.

Nobody said a 60 minute wait limit was very low. The post was that there were only a few attractions with waits greater than 60 minutes (and they were listed) indicating a low wait time environment. To make it even clearer I then posted wait times for popular attractions (some as low as 5 minutes).

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Those wait times are not "very low." However, those wait times being the only ones across 4 parks at greater than an hour at 12:30 pm indicate a "very low" wait time environment. There's a lot of headliners that weren't on that list, with wait times lower than 1 hour. Right now, at 3:00 PM (which should be peak time), looking at the app, I see the following:

Animal Kingdom:
1. Kilimanjaro Safaris, 10 minutes;
2. Expedition Everest, 25 minutes;
3. Dinosaur, 10 minutes;

Magic Kingdom:
1. Jungle Cruise, 35 minutes;
2. Pirates, 30 minutes;
3. BTMRR: 20 minutes;
4. Haunted Mansion: 15 minutes;
5. 7DMT: 50 minutes;
6. Meet Mickey: 15 Minutes;

DHS:
1. ROTR: 50 minutes;
2. TOT: 30 minutes;
3. RNRC: 15 minutes;

So yeah, these wait times seem pretty low to me, relative to Disney normal, but even in an absolute sense.

It is probably still way too soon to see any real DAS impact though and this is just seasonal impacts, but hopefully we are starting to see something.

I would agree those times are very low, it’s going to be fun to see how the pro/con “spin” in this thread coincides with the pro/con “spin” in the is attendance down thread…

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I agree it’s an expense but I’d hazard a guess that people who visit and don’t have any health issues don’t buy genie on everyday of their trip.

We’d need it everyday we visited the parks and we’d need all the individual lightning lanes as well.

Oh, you're wrong there. The released statistics show that a majority of guests are purchasing Genie+.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

The return to line system is still going to be a total #@%A unless Disney makes some major changes we don't know about yet.

1) Disney's only statements on it so far have been obtuse and completely devoid of information.. basically saying "see a CM" nothing more and acknowledging the process may differ attraction to attraction

This is purposeful to avoid making it easy for people to abuse it.

2) No we don't know exactly what the process is or 'confirmed' yet - the posters acting like it's just LL and wait at merge are really stretching the comments made so far into 'it is known'. No, it's not yet.

And why isn't simply LL and wait at merge an answer you should sleep soundly with...

1 - Scale - Let's take any average headliner.. say BTMRR. This ride has a throughput of over 2,000 riders an hour. That means if the standby wait is 45mins (very typical).. there will have been 1500 people in the queues ahead of you. If only 1 out of 100 people decide to use the return system... that means there will be at least 15 people trying to wait at merge during that hour. And conversely, for each person who left the line, there can be an unknown number of people who might have to wait for that person at merge in the standby line if they get there first.

Disney probably thinks that far fewer than 1 out of 100 people will use this. I tend to think Disney is correct. This is going to be a "use it in case of an emergency" situation for people for whom emergencies are unpredictable. I think Disney believes that the number of those true emergencies requiring someone to exit a standby line is going to be pretty low. We'll see, but I bet they are correct.

Now we already know from Len's data, that the DAS user population far far far exceeds 1%. If it's 30%.. you now have 600 people an hour trying to 'wait at merge' in some form. Where are 600 people an hour going to be put??

We don't need to get back into the "DAS user" versus "riding party" debate, but under either analysis the number of actual DAS users (the ones with the disability) is not 30 percent, it's been posted here by an insider that it's somewhere around 8 percent.

2 - The LL is not an open lane itself - The LLs themselves backup. Yes in theory without the DAS explosion of people, there should be less people in the LL line.. but we know G+ will offset some of that too. Plus, the line is basically never zero. So how are these 'returners' getting to merge? They have to wait in line along with the rest of the LL users. Don't you think when the person is getting hammered with text messages "we are waiting!" there isn't going to be a source of conflict for people who don't want to wait in that LL line and think they need to push forward to meet their group?

One of the major reasons the LL's are currently backing up is because of the unpredictability of DAS users return times. Eliminating a majority of these users should fix the LL backup problem (unless a ride goes down).

3 - The use of merge point as the single point of rejoining the line makes it a major choke point - You can't have free roam to rejoin the line at any point for numerous issues... but to force merge to be the only reunification point concentrates all the traffic and holding needs into a single spot... with all the area around it already committed to PEOPLE IN LINE.

Again, I think Disney thinks this is probably goign to be few and far between enough such that you likely won't have more than a couple people waiting here at any given point. I think Disney is right, but time will tell!

4 - 'open to everyone' is a mess - People who dismiss who will attempt to use this.. it won't just be former DAS users. Have you never seen the 'send one person ahead and we'll catch up with you' families? That will be used rampantly as a replacement for G+. The better the system works, the worst this problem will become because it will be more attractive. Send 'dad' to wait in line, while mom and kids go and do other rides while 'dad' saves their spot in line. "text me when you get close and we'll come back". Thus compounding the scale issues. The longer the attraction's wait time, the more lucrative this model becomes.

RTQ won't help the "send one ahead" cheaters because they'll necessarily have to have gotten in line in the first place. There might still be some abuse, but it's a effort/reward thing. It's a lot of effort for an extremely small amount of reward.

Without any real checks on maximum time out of line - there is no reason this model can't be gamed to avoid your whole group waiting in line. Your next version of "paid tour guides" will be "paid line mules".

4 - Those that question the angst and upset people about people passing them in line, etc. Remember, not everyone understands all the systems going on in the park. A big part of the angst over Fastpass lines and people being bothered about 'hey, why are they able to go up there??' is because people didn't KNOW how Fastpass worked or that it was open to everyone.. even though it was in every park map handed out, and endless other sources of information. Add in frustration... and people get upset about watching people 'not having to wait like we are...'. Anytime you put people in a queue, and they see another queue not suffering the same as they are, you are creating angst in that population.

Ok? This is the same angst that will always exist when you have a two-tiered line system, including with the current DAS.

5 - The lightning lane isn't always near the standby queue - In many attractions the switch backs for standby aren't even near the LL queue. And even when it is, the queues aren't labeled - guests are only expected to move along paths that are open. So how will rando guest know how and where to duck out of the standby line?

Nobody should be ducking out of the standby line unless you are leaving because you have an emergency and need to use RTQ. This sort of thing happens with some frequency right now, so it's not like this is some huge uknown that disney has no experience with. People can leave a line if they have to, at worst by backtracking.

6 - Movement between queues isn't really accessible friendly - There generally isn't free movement between the queues... and the population that may actually need this for physical limitations aren't going to be population ducking under railings, or jumping rails, etc. So what do those people do when they decide they need to leave NOW? They'll be forced to push through the line in some way (forward or back) to try to find a bail out point. Now you're back to the really problematic situation of people moving through queues separate from the line.

You don't need to move between queues, i think you are misunderstanding how this will work.

Then you have all the gaming situations...
How long till you see teens gaming the system, knowingly ducking into the LL and going to merge and claiming ignorance.. the CM can't send them back to their original spot... and Disney isn't going to kick them out.. they'll sweet talk their way into being let back into the line at merge.

Again, this statement seems to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how this system works. There's no "ducking between the queues". You exit the queue, and after speaking to a CM will be allowed to re-enter the LL queue to meet your party. No cutting back and forth.

What will Disney's 'pressure relief' system be when too many people start leaving the queue or trying to return to merge point? Disney will have no recourse but to just insert those people into the line at merge without making them wait longer. So literally, if more people use it, they will basically force Disney to make it better for abusers...

Again this misunderstands the system.

This concept only really works in finite situations and in small scale. You're literally starting with a situation where a HUGE percentage of your population are being told this is your alternative... and you have the rest of the park population waiting to exploit this for their own individual gains.

This will be a nightmare if they just assume they can say 'exit the LL lane, and get a pass to return and wait at merge' - that is such an inadequate solution.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I would agree those times are very low, it’s going to be fun to see how the pro/con “spin” in this thread coincides with the pro/con “spin” in the is attendance down thread…

There shouldn't be any pro-con spin. It's Friday. This just started on Monday and most people are still under the old system. *Hopefully* this means something, but there's no way anyone can look at the dataset of today and draw any conclusions from it.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Nobody said a 60 minute wait limit was very low. The post was that there were only a few attractions with waits greater than 60 minutes (and they were listed) indicating a low wait time environment. To make it even clearer I then posted wait times for popular attractions (some as low as 5 minutes). Why you're still running with the idea that anyone said 60 minutes is a very low wait time I don't know.

Crowds were low as reported as reported by @Sirwalterraleigh , I guess this could be called a "low wait time environment" but then the "posted wait times" for example was 65 minutes which was to me not a "very low" wait time for that attraction as someone described.

So I can understand that when the parks are not crowded that that is a "low wait time environment" but this "low wait time environment" does not seem to help the actual wait times, since the mine train is 65 minutes which is NOT a very low wait time.

All that said, @Sirwalterraleigh then posted the actual wait time of 41 minutes which I do think IS a low albeit not a "very low" wait time.

So I guess its the wrong/broken/inflated posted wait time that got me.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

There shouldn't be any pro-con spin. It's Friday. This just started on Monday and most people are still under the old system. *Hopefully* this means something, but there's no way anyone can look at the dataset of today and draw any conclusions from it.

These threads don’t just cover today, we’ve been discussing both for months. Any change, or lack of change, in wait times will be debated ad nasuem and no one outside of Disney is going to know the truth.

Did they go down because DAS was being abused so much, did they go down because the DAS people stopped going to the parks and attendance has plummeted, did they stay the same because DAS abuse was exaggerated, did they stay the same because everyone using DAS is now just using Genie, etc, etc, etc.

We love to debate why things change on this forum but we very rarely have any concrete evidence, makes for some interesting conversations.

 

[ditzee]

The return to line system is still going to be a total #@%A unless Disney makes some major changes we don't know about yet.

1) Disney's only statements on it so far have been obtuse and completely devoid of information.. basically saying "see a CM" nothing more and acknowledging the process may differ attraction to attraction

2) No we don't know exactly what the process is or 'confirmed' yet - the posters acting like it's just LL and wait at merge are really stretching the comments made so far into 'it is known'. No, it's not yet.

And why isn't simply LL and wait at merge an answer you should sleep soundly with...

1 - Scale - Let's take any average headliner.. say BTMRR. This ride has a throughput of over 2,000 riders an hour. That means if the standby wait is 45mins (very typical).. there will have been 1500 people in the queues ahead of you. If only 1 out of 100 people decide to use the return system... that means there will be at least 15 people trying to wait at merge during that hour. And conversely, for each person who left the line, there can be an unknown number of people who might have to wait for that person at merge in the standby line if they get there first.

Now we already know from Len's data, that the DAS user population far far far exceeds 1%. If it's 30%.. you now have 600 people an hour trying to 'wait at merge' in some form. Where are 600 people an hour going to be put??

2 - The LL is not an open lane itself - The LLs themselves backup. Yes in theory without the DAS explosion of people, there should be less people in the LL line.. but we know G+ will offset some of that too. Plus, the line is basically never zero. So how are these 'returners' getting to merge? They have to wait in line along with the rest of the LL users. Don't you think when the person is getting hammered with text messages "we are waiting!" there isn't going to be a source of conflict for people who don't want to wait in that LL line and think they need to push forward to meet their group?

3 - The use of merge point as the single point of rejoining the line makes it a major choke point - You can't have free roam to rejoin the line at any point for numerous issues... but to force merge to be the only reunification point concentrates all the traffic and holding needs into a single spot... with all the area around it already committed to PEOPLE IN LINE.

4 - 'open to everyone' is a mess - People who dismiss who will attempt to use this.. it won't just be former DAS users. Have you never seen the 'send one person ahead and we'll catch up with you' families? That will be used rampantly as a replacement for G+. The better the system works, the worst this problem will become because it will be more attractive. Send 'dad' to wait in line, while mom and kids go and do other rides while 'dad' saves their spot in line. "text me when you get close and we'll come back". Thus compounding the scale issues. The longer the attraction's wait time, the more lucrative this model becomes.

Without any real checks on maximum time out of line - there is no reason this model can't be gamed to avoid your whole group waiting in line. Your next version of "paid tour guides" will be "paid line mules".

4 - Those that question the angst and upset people about people passing them in line, etc. Remember, not everyone understands all the systems going on in the park. A big part of the angst over Fastpass lines and people being bothered about 'hey, why are they able to go up there??' is because people didn't KNOW how Fastpass worked or that it was open to everyone.. even though it was in every park map handed out, and endless other sources of information. Add in frustration... and people get upset about watching people 'not having to wait like we are...'. Anytime you put people in a queue, and they see another queue not suffering the same as they are, you are creating angst in that population.

5 - The lightning lane isn't always near the standby queue - In many attractions the switch backs for standby aren't even near the LL queue. And even when it is, the queues aren't labeled - guests are only expected to move along paths that are open. So how will rando guest know how and where to duck out of the standby line?

6 - Movement between queues isn't really accessible friendly - There generally isn't free movement between the queues... and the population that may actually need this for physical limitations aren't going to be population ducking under railings, or jumping rails, etc. So what do those people do when they decide they need to leave NOW? They'll be forced to push through the line in some way (forward or back) to try to find a bail out point. Now you're back to the really problematic situation of people moving through queues separate from the line.

Then you have all the gaming situations...
How long till you see teens gaming the system, knowingly ducking into the LL and going to merge and claiming ignorance.. the CM can't send them back to their original spot... and Disney isn't going to kick them out.. they'll sweet talk their way into being let back into the line at merge.

What will Disney's 'pressure relief' system be when too many people start leaving the queue or trying to return to merge point? Disney will have no recourse but to just insert those people into the line at merge without making them wait longer. So literally, if more people use it, they will basically force Disney to make it better for abusers...

This concept only really works in finite situations and in small scale. You're literally starting with a situation where a HUGE percentage of your population are being told this is your alternative... and you have the rest of the park population waiting to exploit this for their own individual gains.

This will be a nightmare if they just assume they can say 'exit the LL lane, and get a pass to return and wait at merge' - that is such an inadequate solution.

Yes, the way are some are acting like people in the LL will part like the Red Sea. More often than not, others in line won't have a problem allowing people to rejoin their groups but there will be those who won't allow them through or who have a meltdown over this.

 

[Chi84]

I’m curious as to what people are proposing if a return to line system doesn’t work.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Yes, the way are some are acting like people in the LL will part like the Red Sea. More often than not, others in line won't have a problem allowing people to rejoin their groups but there will be those who won't allow them through or who have a meltdown over this. It's ridiculous that some won't even acknowledge that this will present a problem.

I might be misunderstanding what you’re saying so apologies if I am, but it sounds as if you’re saying that AQR users will need to push their way up through the LL? They leave the standby (or LL I guess) and then re enter through the LL but wait in it. Not push through it.

 

[Patcheslee]

No idea, but whether they allow it or not, I assume they still can be recorded.

FL is a 2 party consent state last I knew.

 

[Drdcm]

I’m curious as to what people are proposing if a return to line system doesn’t work.

Any solution generated or created will immediately be shot down as unworkable by rare fringe cases or considered too difficult within the context of “family”.

The best way forward is to continue DAS as is and do nothing different because an all inclusive blanket policy is the only way to capture every single issue.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I’m curious as to what people are proposing if a return to line system doesn’t work.

I just see proof suggested over and over. Which we know wouldn’t really change much in terms of what the goals of the change seemingly are but…

 

[flynnibus]

Again this misunderstands the system.

No, you just aren't seeing how it will be used in the wild...

This is purposeful to avoid making it easy for people to abuse it.

You can't simultaneously help a wide population and also hide the details. These are conflicting objectives. This notion of hoarding details is a losing proposition.

Disney probably thinks that far fewer than 1 out of 100 people will use this. I tend to think Disney is correct. This is going to be a "use it in case of an emergency" situation for people for whom emergencies are unpredictable.

This is someone's hope - and someone who is ignoring you just took a HUGE POPULATION and pulled the rug out from under them. This isn't some hidden gem people will have to discover... It's going to be iterated by Disney hundreds of times a day to people and also over every Disney website.

If there is an advantage to using it - people will.

I think Disney believes that the number of those true emergencies requiring someone to exit a standby line is going to be pretty low. We'll see, but I bet they are correct.

Live look in at the policy writer's room...

We don't need to get back into the "DAS user" versus "riding party" debate, but under either analysis the number of actual DAS users (the ones with the disability) is not 30 percent, it's been posted here by an insider that it's somewhere around 8 percent.

It is significant - because the # of people waiting is not just the DAS holder, but the rest of the party. Oh and where is the limit on your party size for RTQ? Oh.. not covered is that? So one mule can wait for how many people?

One of the major reasons the LL's are currently backing up is because of the unpredictability of DAS users return times. Eliminating a majority of these users should fix the LL backup problem (unless a ride goes down).

Funny - didn't I address that? Yes.. I did.

Do you think Disney would ever let LL lanes get down to walk on all the time? What that situation would signal is in fact there is free capacity they should be offering to LL and G+. As long as there is a paid option using the LL - there is a feedback loop to encourage that LL to never be empty.

And LL return lines being long is an every day occurance - not just limited to shutdowns. Disney won't be sacrificing LL or G+ sales to make RTQ work better.

Again, I think Disney thinks this is probably goign to be few and far between enough such that you likely won't have more than a couple people waiting here at any given point. I think Disney is right, but time will tell!

All the math screams otherwise. And the better the system works, and the longer the lines are, the more reason for people to use. Literally all the incentives point to the system breaking down - not improving. That's why it's doomed.

RTQ won't help the "send one ahead" cheaters because they'll necessarily have to have gotten in line in the first place. There might still be some abuse, but it's a effort/reward thing. It's a lot of effort for an extremely small amount of reward.

A lot of effort? Get in line, then leave, come back 60-75mins later... Why is this hard? You don't think people would be enticed by the opportunity to get out of line?

Ok? This is the same angst that will always exist when you have a two-tiered line system, including with the current DAS.

I was responding to the comments that basically tried to deny this kind of conflict existed - it did, and will even be worse than the current situation because of the physical constraints they are trying to operate in.

Nobody should be ducking out of the standby line unless you are leaving because you have an emergency and need to use RTQ. This sort of thing happens with some frequency right now, so it's not like this is some huge uknown that disney has no experience with. People can leave a line if they have to, at worst by backtracking.

Again, you see this once or maybe a few times a day.. no big deal. Now imagine a significant portion of the population are doing it.. Do you not see how this differs?

You don't need to move between queues, i think you are misunderstanding how this will work.

So you think someone is going to backtrack through the entire standby queue every time they need to do this? Yeah, good luck with that.

Again, this statement seems to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how this system works. There's no "ducking between the queues". You exit the queue, and after speaking to a CM will be allowed to re-enter the LL queue to meet your party. No cutting back and forth.

So the person who 'really needs' this as a sense of urgency... is going to be forced to move through a crowded queue, the entire length of the queue to exit. How long do you think that would take? How do you see that working for someone who maybe less agile or fraile? Or maybe even struggling with a physical issue that is WHY they are leaving the queue in the first place? And you don't see a problem with that? Not even if it's the simple 8% of people you mentioned?

All your points boil down to the exact reasons I'm saying it's doomed. You're relying on the fact only a small portion of people would use it.. while concurrently believing it will benefit those who use it... while not limiting who can use it.

These ideas can not co-exist and survive.

 

[Chi84]

Any solution generated or created will immediately be shot down as unworkable by rare fringe cases or considered too difficult within the context of “family”.

The best way forward is to continue DAS as is and do nothing different because an all inclusive blanket policy is the only way to capture every single issue.

Well we know that won’t be done. I meant realistically.

 

[ditzee]

FL is a 2 party consent state last I knew.

Federal law is 1 party consent and it has been used when calls are recorded from a 1 party consent state to a 2 party consent state.
For what it's worth:
“It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted to commit any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the U.S. or of anyState.”

That said, people have to agree not to record as part of the terms and conditions of a DAS call. Signing terms and conditions is legally binding from what I've read.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I view AQR in a similar way as Rider Switch. Ultra helpful if you need it for its intended purposes. Some cons that don’t really outweigh the pros if you use it without actually requiring it. I’m sure this is why they’re opening it up to all.

If you don’t actually have somebody in your party who does not want to or cannot ride but cannot be left alone, all you’re gaining with rider switch is a person or two in your party avoiding the standby wait and maybe somebody getting an extra ride. That’s at the cost of splitting your party and taking more time to send the second group through. Similarly although not identical, AQR allows a small portion of your party to sit out of the main standby queue, at a cost of having to split up your party each time (this is being considered a con by former DAS users right now, the loss of family time), and possibly timing it incorrectly/getting stuck in the LL and increasing your overall party’s wait time. Again, only super valuable if you have a reason to use it. Kind of a hassle otherwise.

 

[DisneyHead123]

The return to line system is still going to be a total #@%A unless Disney makes some major changes we don't know about yet.

1) Disney's only statements on it so far have been obtuse and completely devoid of information.. basically saying "see a CM" nothing more and acknowledging the process may differ attraction to attraction

2) No we don't know exactly what the process is or 'confirmed' yet - the posters acting like it's just LL and wait at merge are really stretching the comments made so far into 'it is known'. No, it's not yet.

And why isn't simply LL and wait at merge an answer you should sleep soundly with...

1 - Scale - Let's take any average headliner.. say BTMRR. This ride has a throughput of over 2,000 riders an hour. That means if the standby wait is 45mins (very typical).. there will have been 1500 people in the queues ahead of you. If only 1 out of 100 people decide to use the return system... that means there will be at least 15 people trying to wait at merge during that hour. And conversely, for each person who left the line, there can be an unknown number of people who might have to wait for that person at merge in the standby line if they get there first.

Now we already know from Len's data, that the DAS user population far far far exceeds 1%. If it's 30%.. you now have 600 people an hour trying to 'wait at merge' in some form. Where are 600 people an hour going to be put??

2 - The LL is not an open lane itself - The LLs themselves backup. Yes in theory without the DAS explosion of people, there should be less people in the LL line.. but we know G+ will offset some of that too. Plus, the line is basically never zero. So how are these 'returners' getting to merge? They have to wait in line along with the rest of the LL users. Don't you think when the person is getting hammered with text messages "we are waiting!" there isn't going to be a source of conflict for people who don't want to wait in that LL line and think they need to push forward to meet their group?

3 - The use of merge point as the single point of rejoining the line makes it a major choke point - You can't have free roam to rejoin the line at any point for numerous issues... but to force merge to be the only reunification point concentrates all the traffic and holding needs into a single spot... with all the area around it already committed to PEOPLE IN LINE.

4 - 'open to everyone' is a mess - People who dismiss who will attempt to use this.. it won't just be former DAS users. Have you never seen the 'send one person ahead and we'll catch up with you' families? That will be used rampantly as a replacement for G+. The better the system works, the worst this problem will become because it will be more attractive. Send 'dad' to wait in line, while mom and kids go and do other rides while 'dad' saves their spot in line. "text me when you get close and we'll come back". Thus compounding the scale issues. The longer the attraction's wait time, the more lucrative this model becomes.

Without any real checks on maximum time out of line - there is no reason this model can't be gamed to avoid your whole group waiting in line. Your next version of "paid tour guides" will be "paid line mules".

4 - Those that question the angst and upset people about people passing them in line, etc. Remember, not everyone understands all the systems going on in the park. A big part of the angst over Fastpass lines and people being bothered about 'hey, why are they able to go up there??' is because people didn't KNOW how Fastpass worked or that it was open to everyone.. even though it was in every park map handed out, and endless other sources of information. Add in frustration... and people get upset about watching people 'not having to wait like we are...'. Anytime you put people in a queue, and they see another queue not suffering the same as they are, you are creating angst in that population.

5 - The lightning lane isn't always near the standby queue - In many attractions the switch backs for standby aren't even near the LL queue. And even when it is, the queues aren't labeled - guests are only expected to move along paths that are open. So how will rando guest know how and where to duck out of the standby line?

6 - Movement between queues isn't really accessible friendly - There generally isn't free movement between the queues... and the population that may actually need this for physical limitations aren't going to be population ducking under railings, or jumping rails, etc. So what do those people do when they decide they need to leave NOW? They'll be forced to push through the line in some way (forward or back) to try to find a bail out point. Now you're back to the really problematic situation of people moving through queues separate from the line.

Then you have all the gaming situations...
How long till you see teens gaming the system, knowingly ducking into the LL and going to merge and claiming ignorance.. the CM can't send them back to their original spot... and Disney isn't going to kick them out.. they'll sweet talk their way into being let back into the line at merge.

What will Disney's 'pressure relief' system be when too many people start leaving the queue or trying to return to merge point? Disney will have no recourse but to just insert those people into the line at merge without making them wait longer. So literally, if more people use it, they will basically force Disney to make it better for abusers...

This concept only really works in finite situations and in small scale. You're literally starting with a situation where a HUGE percentage of your population are being told this is your alternative... and you have the rest of the park population waiting to exploit this for their own individual gains.

This will be a nightmare if they just assume they can say 'exit the LL lane, and get a pass to return and wait at merge' - that is such an inadequate solution.

What worries me is that insiders have already said that Disney was surprised by how much DAS usage grew. Like extremely, beyond their wildest predictions surprised. I could easily see that being repeated with RTQ. Probably more so, because with DAS, if a person was cheating the system, they still had to lie in an actual interview, which takes a certain amount of audacity. Less so if people are “just” asking to use the bathroom, and telling themselves “it’s only for one ride”. (Like who among us hasn’t already pretended they had to use the restroom to temporarily escape a boring meeting, class, or conference?)

Tips and tricks and new ways of doing things seem to move incredibly fast with the TikTok generation. I get why it surprises people because it surprises me too - I just didn’t grow up with that “constant change, there’s always a new hack” mindset. But if anything I think the sudden growth of DAS is a case study in how that works.

 

[Chi84]

I view AQR in a similar way as Rider Switch. Ultra helpful if you need it for its intended purposes. Some cons that don’t really outweigh the pros if you use it without actually requiring it. I’m sure this is why they’re opening it up to all.

If you don’t actually have somebody in your party who does not want to or cannot ride but cannot be left alone, all you’re gaining with rider switch is a person or two in your party avoiding the standby wait and maybe somebody getting an extra ride. That’s at the cost of splitting your party and taking more time to send the second group through. Similarly although not identical, AQR allows a small portion of your party to sit out of the main standby queue, at a cost of having to split up your party each time (this is being considered a con by former DAS users right now, the loss of family time), and possibly timing it incorrectly/getting stuck in the LL and increasing your overall party’s wait time. Again, only super valuable if you have a reason to use it. Kind of a hassle otherwise.

I can see people deciding to buy Genie+ rather than face the kind of hassles a return to line system might engender.