New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Basil of Baker Street]

Since LL is afforded the vast majority of line capacity, a stand by line will never be shorter than the LL line, time-wise.

I am of the mindset that if you remove however many DAS users from LL, you will be able to add an equal amount of G+ drops back into G+ bucket. This will 1. Keep SB lines equally long (or longer to make G+ more attractive). 2. Make G+ a better product. Instead of saying expect 2 or 3. You can now expect 3 or 4.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Unless they replace the DAS slots in LL with Genie+/ILL. Then the standby line will move at the same speed but have a few more people in it.

It's a bit more complicated than this due to balking point. If I understand correctly, LL inventory may not change much at all after the DAS changes which means that the standby queues should generally move faster and standby waits should be more evenly distributed across attractions. In all, the less people in the LL (second) queue, the better for everyone.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I am of the mindset that if you remove however many DAS users from LL, you will be able to add an equal amount of G+ drops back into G+ bucket. This will 1. Keep SB lines equally long (or longer to make G+ more attractive). 2. Make G+ a better product. Instead of saying expect 2 or 3. You can now expect 3 or 4.

I think they'd better be careful about adding too many G+ slots back. If they make it equal to the number of DAS spots removed then they'll end up with the same complaint from G+ users - the LL line is too long.

 

[Dranth]

I am of the mindset that if you remove however many DAS users from LL, you will be able to add an equal amount of G+ drops back into G+ bucket. This will 1. Keep SB lines equally long (or longer to make G+ more attractive). 2. Make G+ a better product. Instead of saying expect 2 or 3. You can now expect 3 or 4.

They may be able to add up to an equal amount but hopefully they don't.

If they do it right, they can increase their G+ money while reducing the overall number of people using the LL. That will force more into standby but it will also reduce the standby to LL ratio speeding up standby and making it less stop and start. LL waits should also see a drop.

If they go that route my only question is if the increased number of people in standby will offset the faster moving line so we end up with the same wait time overall? If so, at least the line moves more often so I would still call that a win for standby.

 

[Drdcm]

I believe it is. We’re talking about some stuff now.

Something to consider would be to see what the rate is during an after hours or party event. Even though the wait times are much lower, DAS is heavily used and you could weed out genie+ easily since it wouldn’t be available. Might give you more data points with the caveat that crowds are lower, so the real daytime usage is probably higher.

 

[seabreezept813]

Something to consider would be to see what the rate is during an after hours or party event. Even though the wait times are much lower, DAS is heavily used and you could weed out genie+ easily since it wouldn’t be available. Might give you more data points with the caveat that crowds are lower, so the real daytime usage is probably higher.

Serious question.. is DAS needed at party events? Aren’t the lines supposed to be pretty short?

 

[el_super]

No, because unless total park volume increases then people that would otherwise be in standby are now in LL. You have to look at this in terms of overall capacity and not the length of the lines.

Why wouldn't the newly freed up LL slots just get eaten up by the remaining DAS users? If Standby waits actually decrease, the advantage that the super commando DAS users have would also increase.

 

[natatomic]

Serious question.. is DAS needed at party events? Aren’t the lines supposed to be pretty short?

I can’t speak for everyone, but I had a friend visit a few times who used a DAS pass. My husband works during the day, so it would usually just be me managing our 2-3 kids by myself (youngest is currently 20 months, so still of carrying age) when I’d go to the parks with my friend. When we’d go through the LL via her DAS - even on rides that didn’t have long lines, like Nemo, Mermaid, etc. - I often thought, “Man, just the shorter distance walk is nice.”

I can see this being enough of a benefit for those who need it (as well as abusers) for them to use it regardless of how long the waits are.

 

[RamblinWreck]

They may be able to add up to an equal amount but hopefully they don't.

If they do it right, they can increase their G+ money while reducing the overall number of people using the LL. That will force more into standby but it will also reduce the standby to LL ratio speeding up standby and making it less stop and start. LL waits should also see a drop.

If they go that route my only question is if the increased number of people in standby will offset the faster moving line so we end up with the same wait time overall? If so, at least the line moves more often so I would still call that a win for standby.

If park capacity remains the same, it's impossible for standby wait times to remain the same unless guest behavior changes drastically.

Everyone who uses lightning lanes, whether it's through DAS, G+, or ILL's, is occupying more queues than they would without those features. Standby times are perfectly correlated with LL usage. DAS users just tend to occupy way more spots in queues during the day than any of those other guests.

 

[flynnibus]

The variable pricing of G+ makes the supply/demand issue somewhat fluid, but it’s not a service that generally sells out. As I mentioned earlier, if the DAS reconfiguring makes the overall posted wait times lower, and the standby experience less unpleasant, does that make G+ more attractive or desirable?

The thing about standby is it basically has a floor amount - based on the popularity of the ride. If on a heavy day… a popular ride is never going to stay below 45mins. Because if it is lower… additional demand will appear. When waits are significantly lower than expected, popular rides will draw in more riders. So they basically set a floor for themselves.

Same thing on the upper band… guest satisfaction vs wait effectively limits how high waits will go.

All that said… what i am getting at is I would not expect a big drop below the floor amounts… but rather a drop away from the inflated waits. What you hope for is not necessarily lower waits in standby overall but lower waits in LL with better ratios. Then all lines more smoother - opening the potential to further monetize the LL queue.

Standby will self regulate no matter what happens in the LL queue. Low waits will turn into regular waits… and high waits will discourage waits getting worse.

 

[Tha Realest]

Serious question.. is DAS needed at party events? Aren’t the lines supposed to be pretty short?

I’ve attended a few after hours and extra evening hours events post Covid. Over time the wait times kept expending each time. The last EEH MK I went to on a low attendance day late last summer I was shocked at how long the lines were - but did notice there were a ton of LL usage going on (which seemed very odd). Now I know.

 

[flynnibus]

This shouldn’t ever be the case. They are supposed to adjust the ratios in real time.

Yeah but on a low capacity ride it doesn’t matter… if the inglow into the LL queue is higher than the ride capacity…. You still can’t drain the queue.

 

[flynnibus]

I am of the mindset that if you remove however many DAS users from LL, you will be able to add an equal amount of G+ drops back into G+ bucket

But this ignores DAS has reride capabilities while G+ doesn’t. That alone would lead to the conversion factor to be less than 1:1

 

[Happyday]

I’ve attended a few after hours and extra evening hours events post Covid. Over time the wait times kept expending each time. The last EEH MK I went to on a low attendance day late last summer I was shocked at how long the lines were - but did notice there were a ton of LL usage going on (which seemed very odd). Now I know.

Hmmm interesting we did MNSSHP a few years ago and didn't even consider using DAS we enjoyed all the other activities that are available during the party instead. (If we ever did that again or a Christmas party we wouldn't change a thing) We have never done an extra hours party though I would think that since those are sold at a low capacity event it shouldn't need to be used? This obviously is different from EEH that you get with a deluxe resort stay not sure how crowded that would be.

 

[Happyday]

This is true. But it also means many are not racing from attraction to attraction.

As another poster pointed out, the disruption in their normal routine might equal half a day in the park, or maybe they only do the peripheral park hours.

It has also been pointed out that families often have more than 1 child. WDW thinks DAS needs to change, and hopefully the new options are better for everyone, but well, a close friend of mine was other child. Every day of his childhood was impacted by his sibling's needs, and her needs were all-consuming. If his sister could only be in a theme park for half a day, that likely meant he could only spend half a day in the theme park. Though I should add, his family never went to WDW. His family was only able to take half-day trips to local amusement parks. Overnight trips were not an option.

I daresay, WDW long ago took a compassionate approach in the days of GAC. Much has changed since then. Am I the only one who recalls The Year of Million Dreams? CM's gave out all kinds of freebies in that era. No matter who you were, CM's were extremely generous to everyone. They gave out all kinds of freebies, just because. If something ever went wrong, like ever, CM's would make it up in some way, like a free dessert or magically replacing a lost toy with a new one. If you were the first one to enter a gift shop, you got a certificate.

Indeed, crazy to recall, but that was part of why I joined this forum way back when. I thought it was fun to hear about all the creative surprises. That was a different era for sure.

I just reread this post and it brought a lot of things to mind. You hit on a big issue that I don't think is being mentioned in this thread the impact on the siblings of individuals on the spectrum or that need extra attention because of medical needs.
Another point is that those magical moments that have not been as obvious, this is why some people have begun doing a bit of "pixie dust" for other guests. It is also why sometimes people also thank the cast members with a small 'gift'.

 

[drizgirl]

I question the logic of this argument - that this is a pure money grab for more G+ - which people keep raising.

As it stands, G+ infrequently sells out. Some have estimated it’s only sold out 5% of the days since its introduction. The variable price certainly shifts that daily calculus, but the demand is hardly ever exceeding the supply.

If the DAS changes do result in less people in LL lines, that *should* also increase the standby line flow through, theoretically lowering standby wait times.

Now, if that is the case, wouldn’t simple economics dictate that there would be less reason to motivate people to buy G+, if the wait times lowered to a more reasonable number?

But it isn't pure economics. Disney can decide to run fewer cars and decrease labor costs by staffing at lower levels. It's not a zero sum game.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Agreed, shorter standbys are bad for Genie+ sales. As you say, they make adjustments in real times to make sure standby lines remain long.

[The following post fits the broader discussion - but doens't necessarily fit the exact point you are making above.]

If the standby is short though, G+ passholders have the ability to modify their passes instead of using them. It isn't always useful if it is your-most-recently-booked- G+, but if you are using a stacked G+, one that you booked more than 2 hours ago, instead of using it, you can modify it.

When you modify, you can choose another attraction or choose a later time.
1. If say, you go to an EE pass at 10am, but the line is short, you can modify it to 11am and use it later.
2. You can also opt to temporarily save your G+, ride standby, then use the G+ for a speedy no-wait re-ride. That option is handy if you happen to have a G+ for a ride like Buzz that coincides with the fireworks. During the fireworks the Buzz wait is very short, but a few minutes later Buzz can be a mob scene.

So even if the standby is NOT shorter than the LL, if it is short enough, it can be beneficial to choose the standby queue over utilizing one's G+.
(Hopefully that makes sense in the context of the discussion that was occurring in this part of the thread.)

 

[UK Disney]

The current system places a strong emphasis on integrity. Unfortunately, there are many individuals who lack integrity and are willing to embellish or outright lie about their requirements. The number of individuals who genuinely require the DAS pass in its current form should be extremely limited, and only those individuals should receive exceptional treatment. I believe some are in for a massive disappointment and deservedly so.

 

[RamblinWreck]

The current system places a strong emphasis on integrity. Unfortunately, there are many individuals who lack integrity and are willing to embellish or outright lie about their requirements. The number of individuals who genuinely require the DAS pass in its current form should be extremely limited, and only those individuals should receive exceptional treatment. I believe some are in for a massive disappointment and deservedly so.

I agree that the number of individuals who genuinely require the DAS pass in it's current form is small.

However, Disney at present only offers two tiers of accommodations:

1. No accommodations at all
2. Unlimited front of the line access

So anyone who does need accommodations of any kind is automatically slotted into DAS. That's on Disney.

 

[UK Disney]

I agree that the number of individuals who genuinely require the DAS pass in it's current form is small.

However, Disney at present only offers two tiers of accommodations:

1. No accommodations at all
2. Unlimited front of the line access

So anyone who does need accommodations of any kind is automatically slotted into DAS. That's on Disney.

Agreed, Disney has created a bit of a monster. Hopefully, the new changes will weed out the cheats. To be honest, my opinion of DAS is about is as low as possible, given that I know of 2 families abusing the system. Coming from the UK on a 9.5 flight, nobody should be getting DAS for anxiety regardless of how severe I'll die on this hill. That said, if other accommodations can be made, that's great.