New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Andrew25]

Only allowing a single caregiver with the guest attached to the DAS is not the right way to approach it.

The only solution WDW has is to increase the complexity of receiving the pass, which a 3rd party does. The current process of walking up to guest services makes it easy to request, now there's a hesitancy towards having to go through the entire process that will knock down a few requests.

With the change, I'm not expecting waits to drop dramatically either way for standby. I still believe the majority of the issues at WDW are from lack of investment and increased downtime at major attractions.

While it sucks they have to add steps to this process, it's not just theme parks having to deal with this type of abuse.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There are a few levels of “DAS use”

Complete Lie - saying someone has a disability just to get DAS

Exaggeration - exaggerating a minor issue in order to get DAS

Actual disability that some on this site don’t think is an actual disability cause they can’t see it.

Actual disability that all agree is an actual disability.

 

[Brian]

Only allowing a single caregiver with the guest attached to the DAS is not the right way to approach it.

The only solution WDW has is to increase the complexity of receiving the pass, which a 3rd party does. The current process of walking up to guest services makes it easy to request, now there's a hesitancy towards having to go through the entire process that will knock down a few requests.

The only real solution is to create a major disparity between the paid product and the free accommodation service, in this case, by enhancing Genie+ to where it is far better than DAS. As long as DAS offers the same thing as Genie+, some would argue better, it doesn't matter how great the barrier to entry is, people will still jump through hoops to get in. It's really not hard to get a bogus note from your doctor.

Genie+ could well see some changes to this effect this year, which should help far more than barriers to entry for DAS ever could, and combined with the changes coming to DAS, should make more than an appreciable dent in the problem.

 

[Angel Ariel]

While it sucks they have to add steps to this process, it's not just theme parks having to deal with this type of abuse.

I get that many don't understand what the big deal is. When you have to deal with "just a few additional steps" everywhere, it adds up. Fast.

I got a phone call from one of DD's medical providers today saying a referral was denied, for a service that is required for an appt we have tomorrow. We were assured 2 months ago that notes would be added to the system to ensure these referrals would be approved because it's necessary to go to this particular provider as they have equipment that our typical provider does not, which is required for our daughter's disability. Obviously those notes weren't made. Or weren't made appropriately. So now I get to spend the day exchanging electronic messages and phone calls trying to solve this issue in less than 24 hrs for an appt that's been on the books since December.

This isn't a one time thing. This happens multiple times a month. If it's not a medical issue taking the time, it's an educational issue dealing with her IEP. We've had something like 7 IEP meetings since August trying to get our child services she needs, that the school team recognizes she needs, but that the district's central office doesn't want to provide and has actively delayed multiple times. And that's with an advocate coming with us.

Disney has been a refuge, because it's literally one place we have been able to leave the PITA of medical and educational bureaucracy entirely at the door, and just focus on having fun with her. so while my posts may seem "defensive" it's more just frustration and exhaustion that one of the very few refuges we've had is now going to have just a few additional steps too.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

It's amazing what people can justify, though.

"Well, my kid HATES waiting in lines, and when they get overtired they get super bratty about it...once in awhile they do throw a tantrum...I mean, I'm just saving the other people in line from having to deal with it by saying it's a need...not a want to wait somewhere where we can all sit down and relax. Besides, Suzy Q said she did it when she went, because to heck with Disney - I'm paying $8 grand to be here for a week, who's it hurting?"

I do think it's a lot more common than you might realize.

Think about the massive increase in retail theft due to self-checkouts. It's not because suddenly a huge percentage of people became kleptos or lost their morals entirely. It's because it became very easy for some to casually justify - it makes me think of one of the early episodes of the Roseanne reboot, when she is at the grocery store self-checkout and her granddaughter says "you forgot to scan that bacon" and the joke was "well, a pound of bacon is the starting wage for checking out my own groceries..."

The people who used to put things under their clothes to steal, or would just walk out with a cart full of unpaid for groceries, didn't make that massive increase (in this context, although organized retail theft is a much different matter but that's a whole different topic). Self-checkout at most retail stores didn't really enable that any more than it did before.

The massive increase across the board directly due to self-checkout was the casual people who were actually paying for the majority of their groceries, but giving themselves a little bonus - "that was on sale last week, it's twice the price now...oops, if they ask, I'll say it was an accident I forgot to scan it" or "the store across the street has this half price, so I'm going to hold them together and only scan one...". People who wouldn't normally think of actually physically stealing something and just walking out of the store, or going through the regular checkout without paying for something.

The easier you make something to game, the more people find it acceptable to get around the system. It's the same thing here - because Disney legally can't ask the questions that a HIPPA-compliant third party can, you are able to bend the truth here to get a benefit, without outright breaking it. You and I might see that moral line crossed in both instances, and hopefully, the majority do - but we can name countless things at WDW that people have been willing to exploit because they feel entitled, and I do think a lot more folks are willing to casually justify things that "don't hurt anyone else" than we might want to believe.

Paging Katiebug…lol

 

[Andrew25]

The only real solution is to create a major disparity between the paid product and the free accommodation service, in this case, by enhancing Genie+ to where it is far better than DAS. As long as DAS offers the same thing as Genie+, some would argue better, it doesn't matter how great the barrier to entry is, people will still jump through hoops to get in. It's really not hard to get a bogus note from your doctor.

Genie+ could well see some changes to this effect this year, which should help far more than barriers to entry for DAS ever could, and combined with the changes coming to DAS, should make more than an appreciable dent in the problem.

The only way I see Genie being better than DAS is to follow a more simplified express pass style option where there is no need to reserve your time... just ride the attraction when you want. Obviously this will require a massive price hike.

I get that many don't understand what the big deal is. When you have to deal with "just a few additional steps" everywhere, it adds up. Fast.

I got a phone call from one of DD's medical providers today saying a referral was denied, for a service that is required for an appt we have tomorrow. We were assured 2 months ago that notes would be added to the system to ensure these referrals would be approved because it's necessary to go to this particular provider as they have equipment that our typical provider does not, which is required for our daughter's disability. Obviously those notes weren't made. Or weren't made appropriately. So now I get to spend the day exchanging electronic messages and phone calls trying to solve this issue in less than 24 hrs for an appt that's been on the books since December.

This isn't a one time thing. This happens multiple times a month. If it's not a medical issue taking the time, it's an educational issue dealing with her IEP. We've had something like 7 IEP meetings since August trying to get our child services she needs, that the school team recognizes she needs, but that the district's central office doesn't want to provide and has actively delayed multiple times. And that's with an advocate coming with us.

Disney has been a refuge, because it's literally one place we have been able to leave the PITA of medical and educational bureaucracy entirely at the door, and just focus on having fun with her. so while my posts may seem "defensive" it's more just frustration and exhaustion that one of the very few refuges we've had is now going to have just a few additional steps too.

I understand that completely, but there's very little Disney can do realistically. It's either allow the abuse to keep happening, or diminish it by requiring those extra steps. It's a trick situation that doesn't really have a clear answer unfortunately.

 

[el_super]

The only real solution is to create a major disparity between the paid product and the free accommodation service

DAS is not really Genie+ though (unless DAS has changed considerably without my knowledge). Even if a guest is allowed to physically bypass a line, they still have to wait. The only real advantage comes from being able to double dip (lining up for one attraction while holding a DAS for another).

And there is a brilliant and easy answer to that: everyone has to scan to gain entrance to the standby line and anyone with active DAS reservation will have it cancelled.

Less brilliant but still fair option: let everyone use DAS.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I understand that completely, but there's very little Disney can do realistically. It's either allow the abuse to keep happening, or diminish it by requiring those extra steps. It's a trick situation that doesn't really have a clear answer unfortunately.

I'd love some official stats actually demonstrating current abuse and demonstrating that such measures have lessened it. Cheaters gonna cheat. And it's not the responsibility of disabled people to take the hit for cheaters.

 

[DisneyCane]

I get that many don't understand what the big deal is. When you have to deal with "just a few additional steps" everywhere, it adds up. Fast.

I got a phone call from one of DD's medical providers today saying a referral was denied, for a service that is required for an appt we have tomorrow. We were assured 2 months ago that notes would be added to the system to ensure these referrals would be approved because it's necessary to go to this particular provider as they have equipment that our typical provider does not, which is required for our daughter's disability. Obviously those notes weren't made. Or weren't made appropriately. So now I get to spend the day exchanging electronic messages and phone calls trying to solve this issue in less than 24 hrs for an appt that's been on the books since December.

This isn't a one time thing. This happens multiple times a month. If it's not a medical issue taking the time, it's an educational issue dealing with her IEP. We've had something like 7 IEP meetings since August trying to get our child services she needs, that the school team recognizes she needs, but that the district's central office doesn't want to provide and has actively delayed multiple times. And that's with an advocate coming with us.

Disney has been a refuge, because it's literally one place we have been able to leave the PITA of medical and educational bureaucracy entirely at the door, and just focus on having fun with her. so while my posts may seem "defensive" it's more just frustration and exhaustion that one of the very few refuges we've had is now going to have just a few additional steps too.

Sadly, due to way too many entitled jerks gaming the system designed to help people in your situation, you will now lose your refuge. Hopefully for legitimate cases like yours there will be a way to make the process relatively painless after the initial onboarding.

 

[Tha Realest]

The only real solution is to create a major disparity between the paid product and the free accommodation service, in this case, by enhancing Genie+ to where it is far better than DAS. As long as DAS offers the same thing as Genie+, some would argue better, it doesn't matter how great the barrier to entry is, people will still jump through hoops to get in. It's really not hard to get a bogus note from your doctor.

Genie+ could well see some changes to this effect this year, which should help far more than barriers to entry for DAS ever could, and combined with the changes coming to DAS, should make more than an appreciable dent in the problem.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but DAS does not “offer() the same thing as Genie+.”

Genie+ costs per person, so that’s $30-$180 per day for your party (approximately) vs free for DAS.

Genie+ only enables you to use it once per day for an attraction. DAS has no such limitation.

Genie+ has a 120-minute window before you can make a new selection. DAS has no such limitation.

Genie+ does not give you free access to the upcharge ILL rides (Tron, ROTR, etc.). DAS does.

Genie+ doesn’t give you an advantage in the VQ lottery. DAS does.

Genie+ doesn’t work on rides without a LL queue. DAS does.

As currently set up, DAS provides far more benefits to users above and beyond the average guests, including those who are paying a hefty premium.

 

[el_super]

Sadly, due to way too many entitled jerks

How many exactly? How many is too many? How do you know?

Seems like the better option is to tolerate some cheating to ensure that everyone who needs it is accommodated, rather than risk alienating someone that really needs it.

 

[Andrew25]

DAS is not really Genie+ though (unless DAS has changed considerably without my knowledge). Even if a guest is allowed to physically bypass a line, they still have to wait. The only real advantage comes from being able to double dip (lining up for one attraction while holding a DAS for another).

And there is a brilliant and easy answer to that: everyone has to scan to gain entrance to the standby line and anyone with active DAS reservation will have it cancelled.

Less brilliant but still fair option: let everyone use DAS.

So Volcano Bay's Tapu Tapu system lol

Ideally, Epcot would be the perfect park for this style of system... but would require a heck of an investment/learning curve for guests.

I'd love some official stats actually demonstrating current abuse and demonstrating that such measures have lessened it. Cheaters gonna cheat. And it's not the responsibility of disabled people to take the hit for cheaters.

I understand that completely, I just don't know what other options Disney has. In a realistic world the only solution for WDW is to "move" the approval process to a somewhat respected 3rd party that could possibly filter out any "cheaters" in the system to reduce use.

 

[DisneyCane]

DAS is not really Genie+ though (unless DAS has changed considerably without my knowledge). Even if a guest is allowed to physically bypass a line, they still have to wait. The only real advantage comes from being able to double dip (lining up for one attraction while holding a DAS for another).

And there is a brilliant and easy answer to that: everyone has to scan to gain entrance to the standby line and anyone with active DAS reservation will have it cancelled.

Less brilliant but still fair option: let everyone use DAS.

If they ever build a fifth gate and design it for 100% VQ that would solve the problem. They can't just transform the current parks to 100% VQ because there isn't enough room to handle the people who are currently in line in a queue.

 

[el_super]

As currently set up, DAS provides far more benefits to users above and beyond the average guests, including those who are paying a hefty premium.

No it doesn't. Most of what you describe above is something any able bodied person can receive from walking into a standby queue. And that's the whole point of DAS: parity to standby.

 

[Andrew25]

If they ever build a fifth gate and design it for 100% VQ that would solve the problem. They can't just transform the current parks to 100% VQ because there isn't enough room to handle the people who are currently in line in a queue.

Epcot is possibly the only park that can actually do that effectively with it's high capacity offerings and largely underutilized theaters with high-capacity that can "absorb" guests on "standby" for the popular attractions.

 

[wdwmagic]

Standby for incoming transmission...

 

[DisneyCane]

How many exactly? How many is too many? How do you know?

Seems like the better option is to tolerate some cheating to ensure that everyone who needs it is accommodated, rather than risk alienating someone that really needs it.

The fact that Universal did this and Disney is following indicates that "too many" has been reached. There will always be some cheating but it is too easy to cheat currently. This isn't a trial by jury where it's better to let 1000 guilty people go free than to convict one innocent person.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

It's a tough situation overall.

Providing accommodation. in general, without documentation is fine 99% of the time because there's no advantage to it. If someone needs help getting an item from a tall shelf in a grocery store for example, they don't need a doctor's note but it's going to take them longer to shop because they need to wait on getting help. There's no advantage to lying about having a disability in these day to day situations.

Theme parks, are the rare exception to this rule. Disability supports have a benefit of shorter wait times and avoiding paying for Genie.

So what do you do? Requiring a doctor's note to weed out the cheaters sounds good in theory, until someone with a legitimate need cannot access necessary supports because they didn't bring their medical documentation with them.

Disney over the years actually did a good job of levelling the playing field. By changing front of the line access to a time based return system, DAS provided support without being disproportionally advantageous.

Disney could eliminate paid Fastpass, again making the systems more comparable. Seems unlikely. They could request documentation. This could be achieved by tying it to the ticket buying process. Just like you can't buy a ticket without including a date reservation, there could be two clear options to choose from - no accommodation necessary or a clear guideline that documentation is needed.

 

[DisneyCane]

Epcot is possibly the only park that can actually do that effectively with it's high capacity offerings and largely underutilized theaters with high-capacity that can "absorb" guests on "standby" for the popular attractions.

As long as the people don't go to WS while in the "standby" queue. Half the time you can barely walk back there as it is.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This will reduce DAS use in the parks for sure. Also, folks that genuinely needed it before and got it under the old system, and today may need it more will now be denied and these folks will simply not go on attractions or even not go to the parks which will also reduce crowding too.

Will eliminating these folks be enough to improve the guest experience at WDW?

Probably not as the real problem is NOT the DAS system. The problem is lack of capacity at the parks and since this costs MONEY; this will not be fixed in a meaningful way going forward.

My hope is EPIC makes a significant impact forcing WDW to do something.