New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Tha Realest]

True story, I have a dermatologist I use who I was talking to about a Disney trip. He volunteered out of nowhere that he could get write me a note that I had some sort of skin condition that prevented me from standing in the sun if I wanted. I politely declined.

Just a few hours ago @Trauma posed this series of questions:

A person with a severe disability goes to their primary care doctor and provides the information about what accommodations Disney is providing.

Primary care doctor, being intimately familiar with the disabled persons needs, determines those accommodations would not be sufficient for them to partake in the parks.

What Disney has decided, is irregardless of that fact, the guest will only receive what accommodations are available for their “group” of disability.

Just to be clear this is what you’re in favor of ?

Yes, for the example @Fido Chuckwagon brings up

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

The 6 flags case isn't arguing about proof itself. Summary from disability scoop:

"The complaint indicates that I.L. applied for and received an Individual Accessibility Card from IBCCES, but that on multiple visits to Six Flags Magic Mountain employees declined him accommodations because they said he didn’t look like he should qualify for the Attraction Access Program. In one instance, the lawsuit states that a park employee ripped up the Individual Accessibility Card and told I.L. that “he did ‘not look disabled enough’ to have the listed accommodations.”

Six Flags Sued Over Disability Access Policy

Six Flags is facing allegations of discrimination, with a lawsuit contending that the system its parks and several others use to provide disability accommodations violates the ADA.

www.disabilityscoop.com

So, as I said the facts of the six flags case are pretty egregrious. However, the proof requirement is absolutely one of the things they raise. This could, of course, end up being a case where "bad facts make bad law," because, again, those facts are so egregious.

 

[Happyday]

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/six-flags-suit.pdf

Wow I just read through this... a lot to unpack. I don't have any "legal" knowledge so not sure of everything I read.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You should familiarize yourself with what companies are required to provide for accommodations. Even under these new plans, Disney is likely being more generous than just what’s required.

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

 

[networkpro]

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

Americans with Disabilities Act Title III Regulations

Title III of the ADA - regulations for businesses, including nonprofits meant to ensure that people with disabilities can access places of business and public accommodation.

www.ada.gov

If you read you will see where Disney has decided that 4 is a number that can be relied on as a maximum.

 

[Chi84]

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

The requirements I’m aware of are in the DOJ regulations, and they’re pretty extensive. As far as I know there isn’t any mention of the type of accommodation Disney is giving. I think what people are saying is that until there is something to the contrary, Disney is going above what is required.

 

[Jrb1979]

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

Take a look at what most other parks offer. That's most likely the extent of what's required. Most parks offer a boarding pass with 3 people can join the person who has the disability. They go up to the exit of the attraction, get a return time to board and are not allowed to ride anything til that time is up.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If I did, I apologize. But there's nothing in the ADA that expressly addresses accommodations that allow disabled persons to avoid waiting in lines. And people stand in line in a lot of places other than Disney, like festivals, ballparks, concerts, etc.

If no DOJ guidelines are forthcoming, the only way this accommodation gets addressed is through the courts. I'm just now familiarizing myself with the ADA, but I know very well how courts work. I can't think of a more time-consuming, inefficient and altogether less desirable way of coming up with a system than through a series of court cases.

That was my point. A number of people keep referring to things like “the guidelines” and “the requirements” as though there are specific rules already spelled out. They don’t exist. So one cannot claim that Disney is following specific regulations that don’t exist. Even the design standards, which are very specific and prescriptive, don’t cover a lot of scenarios.

 

[flynnibus]

In your scenario are you suggesting that when a cast member as a guest approaches guest relations or calls to set up DAS that the agent responding should contact their area of work and ask their leaders about their bathroom habits?

“Sorry lady, your manager says you don’t poop enough at work to qualify”

They wouldn't have to. A simple workflow could be as follows...

User registers for DAS with a developmental disability that has been concluded prevents them from waiting in a queue. Their name and details go into the computer. System can identify they are an employee and they get flagged.

Later, a second system reviews all employees who qualified for DAS and compares their work history and accommodations. If by some pre-determined rules of intersection of key data points happen, you boil the record up for manual evaluation. Someone in HR can review by inspecting the person's responsibilities, documented accommodations or reported limitations, and comparing with the DAS request.

Disney's purpose isn't to deny them the DAS when they apply - you don't want to deny people something they may need. Instead you post-analyze the data to look for irregularities, screen, and bubble up ones that methodically that seem suspicious. Then you assess, and either dismiss the alert, or take some other action of your choosing.

Point is, you make it an employee issue - not a denying accommodations issue. If someone ultimately is lying to get DAS, they put their park privileges and employer/employee relationship at risk... you don't try to screen them out of getting a DAS. You leave the rope...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Take a look at what most other parks offer. That's most likely the extent of what's required. Most parks offer a boarding pass with 3 people can join the person who has the disability. They go up to the exit of the attraction, get a return time to board and are not allowed to ride anything til that time is up.

How do you think DAS is materially different?

 

[flynnibus]

The facts of the case where it is being challenged are actually pretty egregious (on the part of the theme park operator), having not a whole lot to do with the verification piece of it.

They make claims about both the registration process... and the fact that even with his pass, that six flag employees denied him accommodations. So both areas are being challenged.

 

[flynnibus]

I can't think of a more time-consuming, inefficient and altogether less desirable way of coming up with a system than through a series of court cases

Well, that's how we get from a law passed over 30years ago to today where the standard of the law is still unknown and unproven in the most popular theme park in the world

It's kinda the theme tho of laws that are made with the idea of 'rights' instead of laws written to define certain processes, specific powers, or to outlaw specific acts.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m 5’11” and i haven’t had a problem. Racking my brain trying to think which ones you mean. Maybe HM because the side seats have a lower ceiling?

Leg room

The boat rides…space mountain…

Not great for those in higher altitudes

 

[Jrb1979]

How do you think DAS is materially different?

It's not a whole lot different. The main difference is at other parks those with Disabilities don't use the equivalent of the LL queue.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's not a whole lot different. The main difference is at other parks those with Disabilities don't use the equivalent of the LL queue.

And how is that a meaningful difference? It’s the same operational impact.

 

[DryerLintFan]

They wouldn't have to. A simple workflow could be as follows...

User registers for DAS with a developmental disability that has been concluded prevents them from waiting in a queue. Their name and details go into the computer. System can identify they are an employee and they get flagged.

Later, a second system reviews all employees who qualified for DAS and compares their work history and accommodations. If by some pre-determined rules of intersection of key data points happen, you boil the record up for manual evaluation. Someone in HR can review by inspecting the person's responsibilities, documented accommodations or reported limitations, and comparing with the DAS request.

Disney's purpose isn't to deny them the DAS when they apply - you don't want to deny people something they may need. Instead you post-analyze the data to look for irregularities, screen, and bubble up ones that methodically that seem suspicious. Then you assess, and either dismiss the alert, or take some other action of your choosing.

Point is, you make it an employee issue - not a denying accommodations issue. If someone ultimately is lying to get DAS, they put their park privileges and employer/employee relationship at risk... you don't try to screen them out of getting a DAS. You leave the r

Like Walmart letting people steal and steal and steal until it adds up to felony charges

 

[flynnibus]

Take a look at what most other parks offer. That's most likely the extent of what's required.

Convention does not make law. That's like saying "everyone else is doing 75 on the highway, so that is what is allowed"

Everyone can do whatever they want in terms of Accessibility accommodations - the only consequence is when someone goes through the hassle of suing them. Beyond physical accessibility requirements that have been incorporated into building codes and local code enforcement... its down to civil challenges to enforce anything ADA.

So until there is a judgement, companies can do whatever... they just don't operate that way because they would prefer to avoid suits

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It's not a whole lot different. The main difference is at other parks those with Disabilities don't use the equivalent of the LL queue.

That’s not always the case at Disney…. Many attractions especially at Disneyland use the exit just like you described.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Can we all agree that we WANT WDW to go “above and beyond” for all customers? And especially for those with disabilities?

We don’t want the bare minimum fireworks show, and we don’t want the bare minimum in hotel cleanliness… we want the Disney service that made us all fall in love with Disney.

 

[Splash4eva]

Like Walmart letting people steal and steal and steal until it adds up to felony charges

Stealing is allowed in this country now… at least in NYC it is