New Be Our Guest lunch line procedure (Test?)

[TRONorail12]

I'd like to meet these "loads of people" you keep referring too and know first hand why they are proof of anything you say.

Talk to any of the 2000 people who continually have a BOG FP+ Reservation on a daily basis. 2000 X 7 = 14,000 people on average per week using FP+ for BOG who appreciate guaranteeing a spot in the restaurant for their family.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Talk to any of the 2000 people who continually have a BOG FP+ Reservation on a daily basis. 2000 X 7 = 14,000 people on average per week using FP+ for BOG who appreciate guaranteeing a spot in the restaurant for their family.

FP+ isn't what this discussion is about, it's about eliminating stand-by altogether in favor of a paper return system.

 

[dadddio]

I'd like to meet these "loads of people" you keep referring too and know first hand why they are proof of anything you say.

Talk to whoever you wish. I only bring them up to counter the ridiculous assertions in this thread that the mere fact that few are willing to speak up in favor of the process in this thread doesn't mean that many people in the real world are happy for the new process. I further suspect thatmore people aren't willing to post their feelings in this thread is because people are attacked when they disagree with the few dominant posters in here.

 

[dadddio]

FP+ isn't what this discussion is about, it's about eliminating stand-by altogether in favor of a paper return system.

In that case, wander into other threads about this issue in one of any number of forums, blogs, and facebook groups.

 

[stevehousse]

Loads of people favor this process for BoG. The mere fact that this thread is dominated by those who do not does not change this.

(That being said, what in the world is wrong with working for Disney? You throw that out like an accusation when lots of people actually aspire to work for the company.)

I would love to actually speak to anyone except u that finds this new system awesome. FP+ guests aside, stand by guests only. The ones who have to show up at rope drop to get a ticket to come back later to wait in line to even get in, and those stand by folks who missed out when those cards go in 30 minutes and the restaurant is at capacity at 10am already. I would love to hear more of those stories. We hve had several posters here tell us their experiences and how awful the process has been, even party size discrimination on parties of 2 that try to dine there!

Please go find those people like I described that just "love" this new backward a$$ system.

There is nothing wrong working for Disney, just the way u come off makes it seems like u r a plant to come in here and try to sway the crowds opinion( which there r such folks on here like that, working for Disney spinning the negatives into positives) with that said I really hope they read this thread!

On a side note, it has been rumored that TDO wanted all WDW parks and hotels to cut spending on dining by several million dollars. I'm sure u have all seen the tons of menu changes all over. What if they implemented this to help reduce capacity and save money?!? That honestly is the only reason this new procedure would make sense. Reduced occupancy equates to reduced spending in food costs and labor! Very interesting...

 

[FigmentFreak]

Talk to any of the 2000 people who continually have a BOG FP+ Reservation on a daily basis. 2000 X 7 = 14,000 people on average per week using FP+ for BOG who appreciate guaranteeing a spot in the restaurant for their family.

Speaking for myself, yes I got a FP for BOG, but not happy that I had to plan 28 days ahead what CS place to eat at.

I really miss the spontaneity of earlier Disney trips. Yes, you can still be spontaneous, but there is just so much less that can actually be done without the uber planning. As someone that a majority of my job is planning events, it has made Disney more like work than vacation, because let's face it, if I don't uber plan I'm not going to get to do a lot of things that previously I could just walk into the parks and do.

And Disney has lost lots of my $$ because instead of 2 or 3 trips a year it's down to just 1 and that is likely to go to every other or every 3-4 years trip.

 

[stevehousse]

Talk to whoever you wish. I only bring them up to counter the ridiculous assertions in this thread that the mere fact that few are willing to speak up in favor of the process in this thread doesn't mean that many people in the real world are happy for the new process. I further suspect thatmore people aren't willing to post their feelings in this thread is because people are attacked when they disagree with the few dominant posters in here.

I wouldn't call it attacking, more or less criticism because u have been the only poster in this thread that acts like the new system is the best thing ever (and for doing so u have no idea what customer service is about) and u r the only one that has now for almost 40 pages, defended the new procedure like ur life depended on it! Hence the "plant" speculations...

 

[CDavid]

I think that there are two views to this. For those people who were satisfied waiting in the line, this is a 'bad' solution. For those that missed out of the restaurant because they didn't wish to wait in the long line, for whatever reason, this might be a good solution. Certainly, there are many that like the new system. There are also several denizens of the wdwmagic forums that are strongly against it.

Thanks for the reasonable response. Obviously there are two sides to any issue, and even a 'bad' idea is typically going to have its defenders. However, we really have no way of knowing how many people fall into each camp. We certainly cannot determine such statistics based on this thread. I doubt even Disney really knows with absolute certainty. That question would require a properly constructed and implemented scientific survey. Even then, a lot of the praise or criticism is situational. You will get very different results if you query guests getting in Be Our Guest without a line at 11:00 (FP+ or a more reasonable 'return time') than if you question parties getting turned away at 1:30 (and with longer 'return times').

I would also contend that the issue of a line and the resulting wait time is not actually the crux of our criticism of Be Our Guest entry, but rather that the 'return card' procedure itself is not the best (or even appropriate) solution to the problem and, again, has actually created new issues. Portraying the matter as simply a tolerance for waiting in line is a tremendous oversimplification.

I've read that they start at restaurant opening and that they start right after the restaurant first fills. In practice, those two are pretty much the same, I guess.

I suspect they are as well. Actually, serious question, does a line not form near the entrance prior to opening, waiting to either get in or get a 'return card'? Which would be ironic, that's there is still a line at Be Our Guest (but maybe the best time to go, if you want to avoid being told to return later or get a FP+).

Talk to any of the 2000 people who continually have a BOG FP+ Reservation on a daily basis. 2000 X 7 = 14,000 people on average per week using FP+ for BOG who appreciate guaranteeing a spot in the restaurant for their family.

How many people get turned away from the restaurant on a daily basis? More or less than 2,000? Does Disney even know, because it is more difficult to measure how many guests, upon seeing a sign or other parties turned away, never bother inquiring (but leave disappointed). In any event, the (justified) criticism is centered on the 'return cards' reservation system, and just because someone has reserved a FP+ for Be Our Guest does not necessarily mean they appreciate the necessity of reserving a time that way. They may dislike the policy as much as we do, they're just putting up with the silliness so they can eat there.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Talk to whoever you wish. I only bring them up to counter the ridiculous assertions in this thread that the mere fact that few are willing to speak up in favor of the process in this thread doesn't mean that many people in the real world are happy for the new process. I further suspect thatmore people aren't willing to post their feelings in this thread is because people are attacked when they disagree with the few dominant posters in here.

First it's "loads of people", now it's "I suspect". Interesting.

 

[jakeman]

I wouldn't call it attacking, more or less criticism because u have been the only poster in this thread that acts like the new system is the best thing ever (and for doing so u have no idea what customer service is about) and u r the only one that has now for almost 40 pages, defended the new procedure like ur life depended on it! Hence the "plant" speculations...

Just curious...how much time do you save daily by not spelling out "you" and "are"? As a follow up question, do you feel the amount of time you save is enough to offset the lower opinion people may have of your conversation ability?

Also, accusing someone of being a plant is considered trolling around these parts.

 

[wdisney9000]

For those that missed out of the restaurant because they didn't wish to wait in the long line, for whatever reason, this might be a good solution. Certainly, there are many that like the new system. There are also several denizens of the wdwmagic forums that are strongly against it.

I agree with you that this system will work well for some. I have visited several times since BoG opened and havent dined there mostly because the line was always long and I personally didnt have a strong enough desire to dine there to wait the 45 minutes. I know we will get a chance to eventually. Im mostly against the return time system because as @CDavid said, it causes more problems than it solves and most of the problems stemming from it are a direct result of its inception. Other reason is that it seems most of the return times are 2 hours out or more. That can be difficult to plan around or wait out if your hungry.

I understand your stance on the options a family has to work with and I agree that some families could make it work but I also think that most families, especially novice ones just wont be able to make it work without frustration. Add in children becoming fussy during your 3 or 4 wait to return and they need to go back to the room to nap or they want to go swim. Thats not Disneys fault in any way. But those families will not return for their time slot and its wasted. There are probly other scenarios that could arise causing a family to to not return for their time slot and perhaps thats why were seeing empty seats. While I wouldnt wait in line, I would rather have that system available to me over the return time. It just seems there are too many variables and on the whole we havent seen much improvement. I do respect your view on it, even if I disagree. I dont think your trolling or trying to be argumentative. Its good to have the opposite side speak up. Without it its just a one-sided conversation and thats just boring. Dont listen to @BrianV telling you to not waste your time. Its not wasted on all. I enjoy exchanging jabs with you, in a polite manor of course.

 

[dadddio]

I wouldn't call it attacking, more or less criticism because u have been the only poster in this thread that acts like the new system is the best thing ever (and for doing so u have no idea what customer service is about) and u r the only one that has now for almost 40 pages, defended the new procedure like ur life depended on it! Hence the "plant" speculations...

Actually, I never said that the new process was the best thing ever or that it was awesome. Nor have I defended it 'like my life depended on it. I've also not been the only one to post my support for it. But you go on working from your same playbook, if you need to.

 

[wdisney9000]

Also, accusing someone of being a plant is considered trolling around these parts.

I accuse you of being a fern, or maybe an orchid.

 

[dadddio]

I would also contend that the issue of a line and the resulting wait time is not actually the crux of our criticism of Be Our Guest entry, but rather that the 'return card' procedure itself is not the best (or even appropriate) solution to the problem and, again, has actually created new issues. Portraying the matter as simply a tolerance for waiting in line is a tremendous oversimplification.

Understood, but the only other alternatives that have been given in this thread are:

1. Give me my line back and
2. Build more immersive restaurants.

The first option takes it right back to the a situation that TPTB obviously found unacceptable and the second one, while being a great long-term fix, doesn't do anything to solve the problem in the short- or mid-term.

How many people get turned away from the restaurant on a daily basis? More or less than 2,000? Does Disney even know, because it is more difficult to measure how many guests, upon seeing a sign or other parties turned away, never bother inquiring (but leave disappointed).

It seems that they can gauge the issue using just a few points of data.

1. Is there any difference in utilization and can this difference be planned for?
2. Is there a change in the number of complaints since the new process has been implemented?
3. Does the implemented solution resolve any other identified problems other than guest complaints?

In any event, the (justified) criticism is centered on the 'return cards' reservation system, and just because someone has reserved a FP+ for Be Our Guest does not necessarily mean they appreciate the necessity of reserving a time that way. They may dislike the policy as much as we do, they're just putting up with the silliness so they can eat there.

True, but many people (albeit outside of this wdwmagic thread) have also stated that they believe that this stand by process is a good idea for BoG.

 

[dadddio]

First it's "loads of people", now it's "I suspect". Interesting.

You are finding my posts far more interesting than I do.

A simple google search will dig up 'loads of people'. The 'I suspect' is just my speculation as to why the tenor of this thread differs so wildly from other internet threads/conversations about the same issue.

 

[BrianV]

I agree with you that this system will work well for some. I have visited several times since BoG opened and havent dined there mostly because the line was always long and I personally didnt have a strong enough desire to dine there to wait the 45 minutes. I know we will get a chance to eventually. Im mostly against the return time system because as @CDavid said, it causes more problems than it solves and most of the problems stemming from it are a direct result of its inception. Other reason is that it seems most of the return times are 2 hours out or more. That can be difficult to plan around or wait out if your hungry.

I understand your stance on the options a family has to work with and I agree that some families could make it work but I also think that most families, especially novice ones just wont be able to make it work without frustration. Add in children becoming fussy during your 3 or 4 wait to return and they need to go back to the room to nap or they want to go swim. Thats not Disneys fault in any way. But those families will not return for their time slot and its wasted. There are probly other scenarios that could arise causing a family to to not return for their time slot and perhaps thats why were seeing empty seats. While I wouldnt wait in line, I would rather have that system available to me over the return time. It just seems there are too many variables and on the whole we havent seen much improvement. I do respect your view on it, even if I disagree. I dont think your trolling or trying to be argumentative. Its good to have the opposite side speak up. Without it its just a one-sided conversation and thats just boring. Dont listen to @BrianV telling you to not waste your time. Its not wasted on all. I enjoy exchanging jabs with you, in a polite manor of course.

Respectfully, I suggested daddio give up because based on the writing of many here, their opinions are so entrenched nothing could change it (like religion or politics). I see pros and cons on both sides and prefer one way. But I get how a given person could like it better the other way. However, many here seem so angry they are blinded to seeing anything but their own side. One poster mentioned that s/he was going to refuse to watch Guardians of the Galaxy to show his unhappiness with wdw. Others are accused of being plants. I was accused of thinking like a customer service rep (I didn't really get that). There were other attacks, but so what...Ad hominem attacks (such as the latter two) are usually only needed when an argument is weak. (On a real estate board I read up in Boston, when the attacker has no good argument, they usually just accuse you of being a reatestate agent...)

 

[dadddio]

I agree with you that this system will work well for some. I have visited several times since BoG opened and havent dined there mostly because the line was always long and I personally didnt have a strong enough desire to dine there to wait the 45 minutes. I know we will get a chance to eventually. Im mostly against the return time system because as @CDavid said, it causes more problems than it solves and most of the problems stemming from it are a direct result of its inception. Other reason is that it seems most of the return times are 2 hours out or more. That can be difficult to plan around or wait out if your hungry.

I understand your stance on the options a family has to work with and I agree that some families could make it work but I also think that most families, especially novice ones just wont be able to make it work without frustration. ...

I have long believed that a Disney vacation has an element of work to it if you are going to get the most out of it. It's always been this way, in my opinion. Back in the day, the solution was to buy a guide book to learn the ins and outs and benefit from those things that most 'casual' vacationers don't know. As such, my general feeling about changes at WDW is to just learn how to work within the system.

Like you, I have little interest in standing in a hot line with my two young children to get into BoG. While others post about their super patient children who can stand in the hot sun all day with smiles on their faces, that's not my family. I get tired and cranky standing in the sun for half an hour. So do my kids. The one time that we did choose to wait in the line, it was pretty much the amount of time that the CM said it was, so I'm not 100% buying the claims of those who post that when the CM says an hour she really means two and a half minutes.

Therefore, I will adapt to the new procedure. The first change that we'll make is to not schedule an early dinner. We'll go with a light breakfast so we can have an early lunch. We will go to BoG early and either get in or get a stand by card. If our return time is early, we'll snack later. If our return time is late, we'll snack early. I'm an eater, so I'll probably snack both times. That's how I roll on vacation.

What I won't be doing is waiting in one more hot line with my family. That right there makes this change acceptable to me. Is it the best solution? Not really, but it's better than my old options which often were to wait in a hot line or skip it.

 

[CDavid]

You are finding my posts far more interesting than I do.

A simple google search will dig up 'loads of people'. The 'I suspect' is just my speculation as to why the tenor of this thread differs so wildly from other internet threads/conversations about the same issue.

As most websites devoted to Walt Disney World are dominated by pixie-dusted fans and overzealous apologists for The Walt Disney Company, that's hardly surprising. There are more WDWMagic members, arguably (particularly on this board), who expect Disney to uphold its own established standards and aren't willing to settle for institutionalized mediocrity.

But the point is a Google search is not representative of diners at Be Our Guest; At best, it represents persons who are members of internet sites pertaining to Disney. You can no more assume those other threads accurately reflect the opinions of BOG guests than you can assume this thread does.

That said, some of us have tried to make objective and logical arguments against the new policy, which aren't dependent on personal opinion. Even if someone personally thinks 'return cards' are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the system works great for them, it doesn't mean there aren't serious problems with the new policy.

 

[flynnibus]

Just curious...how much time do you save daily by not spelling out "you" and "are"? As a follow up question, do you feel the amount of time you save is enough to offset the lower opinion people may have of your conversation ability?

Just curious... how much less do you think people think of you for going out of your way just to make a post like this? Do you think people need you policing other posters for them? As a follow up question, do you feel the amount of gratification you feel for calling someone out like that is enough to offset the lower opinion people may have of your conversation ability?

 

[flynnibus]

I have long believed that a Disney vacation has an element of work to it if you are going to get the most out of it.

KEY DIFFERENCE: It used to be 'if you are going to get the most out of it'. Now, it's "to participate at all"

Before it was about optimizing.. hence optional. What it has changed to is, you miss out on elements entirely unless you partake in the work.

That is what people don't like about the advance booking aspect of things... and how it's different. It's no longer 'optimization' for yourself, but now about 'avoiding getting left out'.