NASCAR 2014

[artvandelay]

It isn't the first time that Brad has had altercations with other drivers (just in this chase alone).Personally i think he needs to re-think his driving standards as he is going to cause something bad down the road for someone else.His run at Daytona (i think) when he was 6 laps down was just plain stupid and could have had worse results than it did.

It was the Spring race at Talladega. Kesolowski was 6 laps down and racing with the lead pack. I was following the race on twitter, and a couple of drivers were asking their spotters why was Kesolowski driving like that when he was 6 laps down and if he kept it up he was going to cause a wreck (and he did).

 

[artvandelay]

Listened to Ricky Craven this morning. He thinks Kesolowski's style of racing will become the 'norm' because of the way the Chase is currently set up. Win and In, win and advance to the next round, win and advance to the finals at Homestead. Getting a good points day was useless for Kesolowski yesterday. He needed a win and stuck his car into a very tight spot trying to pass.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

Brad's moves does have an explanation most of the time in terms of aggressiveness because I've seen his style of racing in before. In racing, Brad looked up to Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Ayrton Senna. I am not that familar with Senna, but I know he was an aggressive F1 driver that was a 3 times champ. Brad looked up to those drivers because they were willing to do anything for a win although I think Dale had more range than Brad in terms of ill handling race cars.

The catch with Bard is the fact is also in the Ernie Irvin aka "swervin ervin" mold also. Ernie Irvin in his prime was a very talented driver, but he was so aggressive that other drivers got hurt on the race track including Kyle Petty breaking his leg. Rest of the drivers on the track in the early 90's didn't like him on the race track and he actually apologized to his competitors during a driver's meeting and actually turned down his racing style some.

Dale Earnhardt Sr. was known the most ruthless driver on a NASCAR Track ever. Some long time NASCAR fans even called Dale Sr. the dirtiest NASCAR driver of all time. Dale actually did great things off the race track that wasn't reported to the media because Earnhardt didn't want the media to report on his good deeds liking doing stuff unannounced since Dale was marketing off his intimidator and Man in black marketing image.

Dale Earnhardt Sr. on the track was not a clean driver and isn't always known as a smart points racer and is why Dale won 7 championships, not 8. Dale was not afraid of wrecking for trying to win. Brad is in Dale Earnhardt Sr. was in the 1980's, but also Brad could be the early Ernie Ervin. Dale Sr. was a smarter driver in the 1990's and won 4 championships from 1990 to 1994, but he still was capable of wrecking drivers for a win. Dale Sr. was a driver that you love or hate because of his racing still. His racing still to me is best described as a take no prisoners attitude that is willing to do anything for a win including wrecking his own mom.

Dale Sr. back in the 1980's actually took himself and Darrell Waltrip out of the race for the lead at the 1st Richmond race of 1986 and Darrell was intermediated by Dale on the track after that. Dale Sr. in the 1980's did moves like caused Dale to get into the grass in the 1987 all-Star with Bill Elliott, but still won the race. Dale Sr. was known to cut drivers off while in the lead and it did cost him the 1989 championship as a result. Dale did a lot of crazy moves in his time, but he made them stick.

Darrell Waltrip once said Dale had the best car control he ever seen, but he also said Dale had so much talent he didn't have to race as dirty as he did. Darrell Waltrip saying that is a big deal because Darrell was a very aggressive at his peak as a driver, but was a much better driver at qualifying. Dale was a driver that loved to race cars so loose that no driver can handle Dale's race Set up except for maybe Kyle Larson.

Interesting insight.I cannot comment on nascar pre-chase due to no available viewing (living in the UK it has only recently been easily available to us) but i can offer an opinion on the Senna side of things.

Having grown up on F1 in the 80's and 90's i watched the Senna/Prost/Mansell era develop into the Schumacher era and can certainly say that Senna was as ruthless a driver as there has ever been.The biggest difference with any comparison's to Brad K is that Senna was a sublimely gifted driver.Certainly the most gifted of his generation and arguably of all time,His qualifying results at Monaco stand testament to that.He also would stand by his decisions and rarely apologised for them.Yes there were altercations with other drivers which may have gone past the talking stage but it never went as far as to involve his whole team.It was his actions in the car and he would stand by those decisions (right or wrong).

I think the biggest problem most people have with Brad K is the way he handles himself after the race.He seemed to have a smug expression on his face (maybe just the way i interpreted it) whilst Jeff was being held back by his crew.Maybe in a few years it will all calm down for him and he will not be getting the negative reaction from the fans (same as KB seems to be slowly gaining popularity) but unless he stops riling up other drivers on a regular basis then he will struggle i feel to win more championships as the other drivers will not feel comfortable racing against him.

Just my 2 pence

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

Listened to Ricky Craven this morning. He thinks Kesolowski's style of racing will become the 'norm' because of the way the Chase is currently set up. Win and In, win and advance to the next round, win and advance to the finals at Homestead. Getting a good points day was useless for Kesolowski yesterday. He needed a win and stuck his car into a very tight spot trying to pass.

I hope not because todays crop of drivers seem to have an " invincibility" attitude.Partly down to the huge advances in saftey.When you see the horrifying wrecks that drivers just walk away from nowadays (in it's own a good thing).If that style of driving becomes commonplace accidents are only going to get worse and hopefully it won't take another snr for it to be changed.The whole "win and your in" thing seems a little off as Newman has an outstanding shot at the title this year and he hasn't won anything ..

 

[MinnieM123]

Just read a report (posted a few hours ago) on the NASCAR web site, titled, "NASCAR issues penalties for the post-Texas tangle." There's a lot going on with some sanctions, but surprisingly, they didn't fine Gordon, Harvick, or Keselowski.

Seems like the people that got hammered were two of the crew chiefs, at $50,000 each. According to the report, the crew chief assumes the responsibility for the actions of his team members. Also, two crewmen were fined $25,000 each and suspended for the next six races.

I'm glad that NASCAR senior management responded quickly to Sunday's incident. They stated that they don't tolerate these types of unacceptable behaviors, which tarnish the reputation of the sport.

 

[artvandelay]

Just read a report (posted a few hours ago) on the NASCAR web site, titled, "NASCAR issues penalties for the post-Texas tangle." There's a lot going on with some sanctions, but surprisingly, they didn't fine Gordon, Harvick, or Keselowski.

Seems like the people that got hammered were two of the crew chiefs, at $50,000 each. According to the report, the crew chief assumes the responsibility for the actions of his team members. Also, two crewmen were fined $25,000 each and suspended for the next six races.

I'm glad that NASCAR senior management responded quickly to Sunday's incident. They stated that they don't tolerate these types of unacceptable behaviors, which tarnish the reputation of the sport.

The rule is you throw punches, you get fined. You push or shove, no fines.

 

[artvandelay]

I hope not because todays crop of drivers seem to have an " invincibility" attitude.Partly down to the huge advances in saftey.When you see the horrifying wrecks that drivers just walk away from nowadays (in it's own a good thing).If that style of driving becomes commonplace accidents are only going to get worse and hopefully it won't take another snr for it to be changed.The whole "win and your in" thing seems a little off as Newman has an outstanding shot at the title this year and he hasn't won anything ..

But for a driver like Kesolowski, who was very behind on points, winning was the only way for him to advance (or wreck the potential points leader, Gordon). Same thing happened with him at Talladega. If he doesn't win Talladega, he doesn't advance to the next round.

Newman has a shot at the title, but I wouldn't say he has an excellent shot. If he is one of the 4 to make it to Homestead and his competition is Harvick, or Gordon, or Logano, or Kesolowski he would be fourth to any of them. Those guys have been fast all year at 1.5 mile tracks. If he goes up against Edwards, Kenseth, and Hamlin, Newman and Chevy power would probably win the day.

If Newman does win the championship (or Kenseth who is also winless) what changes to the Chase will NASCAR make for next year? They are not going to like a winless driver winning the championship.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

 

[wdwfan4ver]

Interesting insight.I cannot comment on nascar pre-chase due to no available viewing (living in the UK it has only recently been easily available to us) but i can offer an opinion on the Senna side of things.

Having grown up on F1 in the 80's and 90's i watched the Senna/Prost/Mansell era develop into the Schumacher era and can certainly say that Senna was as ruthless a driver as there has ever been.The biggest difference with any comparison's to Brad K is that Senna was a sublimely gifted driver.Certainly the most gifted of his generation and arguably of all time,His qualifying results at Monaco stand testament to that.He also would stand by his decisions and rarely apologised for them.Yes there were altercations with other drivers which may have gone past the talking stage but it never went as far as to involve his whole team.It was his actions in the car and he would stand by those decisions (right or wrong).

I think the biggest problem most people have with Brad K is the way he handles himself after the race.He seemed to have a smug expression on his face (maybe just the way i interpreted it) whilst Jeff was being held back by his crew.Maybe in a few years it will all calm down for him and he will not be getting the negative reaction from the fans (same as KB seems to be slowly gaining popularity) but unless he stops riling up other drivers on a regular basis then he will struggle i feel to win more championships as the other drivers will not feel comfortable racing against him.

Just my 2 pence

Thanks for the information on Senna. Out of the Senna/Prost/Mansell era, I only saw Mansell race on television. My background on watching racing started with CART back in the 1980's with me seeing a glimpse of NASCAR once in a while although my DAD was into NASCAR even then besides CART.

I saw Mansell raced in CART as a teammate of Mario Andretti in 1993 and and a good portion of 1994 besides me watching NASCAR. Mansell was a great talent even at his age in CART since he was almost 40 when he went to CART. Winning the CART Championship in 1993 over Emerson Fittipaldi was a big accomplishment to me. Emerson was racing For Penske at the time and Emerson's skills didn't fade despite being 46 years old at the time.

I mentioned Cart because Indycar racing in the states was CART before the split happened after 1995 that caused two Indy Car racing series.

 

[artvandelay]

Tough finish for the 24 team. Two second place finishes in this round couldn't make up for the 29th place finish at Texas. I don't blame Newman for the move to get that last spot. It was good, hard racing.

 

[MinnieM123]

Very disappointing that the 24 didn't make the final four. Crazy race to begin with yesterday (how many cautions??!!). Jeff must be devastated and angry; and I presume in his mind, that the loss of points/placement from that on-track situation with Brad last week, was a part of why he didn't make the final 4.

I am glad for Harvick, as he's one of my favorites, and he ran a great race yesterday. However, I really wanted both Harvick and Gordon to be in the final 4, as that would have been a really exciting race to the finish at Homestead.

I also wonder if NASCAR might review the Chase rules next year and make some adjustments. The newer rules are a bit confusing (to me, anyway).

 

[MOXOMUMD]

Sorry about posting the results late. The nasty flu bug had our house down and out this weekend.

Quicken Loans Race For Heroes 500, Phoenix

1. Kevin Harvick
2. Jeff Gordon
3. Matt Kenseth

 

[MinnieM123]

Sorry about posting the results late. The nasty flu bug had our house down and out this weekend.

Quicken Loans Race For Heroes 500, Phoenix

1. Kevin Harvick
2. Jeff Gordon
3. Matt Kenseth

I hope you're over the flu now and feeling better. Thanks for posting the actual race results from Phoenix.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

I also wonder if NASCAR might review the Chase rules next year and make some adjustments. The newer rules are a bit confusing (to me, anyway).

I know NASCAR does have a history different points systems before the chase era even before Matt Kenseth's 2003 season that Matt only won 1 cup race.

NASCAR would review the chase rules for next year if Ryan Newman or Denny Hamlin win the cup Championship. Deep down I don't think NASCAR like the fact like Ryan and Denny are 2 of the final 4 drivers, but to what degree depends on who wins the chase.

 

[Clamman73]

I know NASCAR does have a history different points systems before the chase era even before Matt Kenseth's 2003 season that Matt only won 1 cup race.

NASCAR would review the chase rules for next year if Ryan Newman or Denny Hamlin win the cup Championship. Deep down I don't think NASCAR like the fact like Ryan and Denny are 2 of the final 4 drivers, but to what degree depends on who wins the chase.

So Ryan Newman can actually win the championship w/out even winning a race all season? That's crazy.

 

[artvandelay]

So Ryan Newman can actually win the championship w/out even winning a race all season? That's crazy.

Yes. Even crazier (sadder) is that he's only led 41 laps all season! Compare that to Harvick's 2000+ laps led or Gordon's 922 or Kesolowski's 1540. Now, if Newman wins the championship, he did so fair and square based on the rules for the 2014 Chase, but look for changes for 2015

 

[wdwfan4ver]

So Ryan Newman can actually win the championship w/out even winning a race all season? That's crazy.

Yep, depending on the circumstances if Kevin and Joey have problems at Homestead along with Denny finishing lower than Newman.

Last year, NASCAR had a Nationwide Champion that didn't win a single race in Austin Dillon. The only reason NASCAR didn't do a thing in the Nationwide Series after that is because the track owners and NASCAR think cup driver brings fans to Nationwide races.

 

[MinnieM123]

Yes. Even crazier (sadder) is that he's only led 41 laps all season! Compare that to Harvick's 2000+ laps led or Gordon's 922 or Kesolowski's 1540. Now, if Newman wins the championship, he did so fair and square based on the rules for the 2014 Chase, but look for changes for 2015

Hmm. So apparently, I did understand the Chase rules correctly, then. I kept shaking my head in disbelief on Sunday, when I was watching the final 4 results grid. I truly believe that Jeff Gordon got robbed here under these new Chase rules. Speaking for myself only, with Gordon out already, and (if Kevin Harvick did not place in the final 4), I probably wouldn't even bother to watch the final, upcoming race, because why bother? I'll only watch because of Kevin now.

I'll bet there's quite a few disgruntled fans out there, and I really think NASCAR needs to make changes next year.

 

[artvandelay]

Jeff Gordon on the pole for Sunday's race. Harvick starts 5th, Hamlin starts 8th, Logano starts 9th, and Newman (surprise, surprise) starts 21st.

 

[MinnieM123]

O.k. race fans. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to give you my prediction:

Harvick will win the Chase.

Any others care to share their prediction?