Mystery Project at Epcot

[doctornick]

Disney no longer highlights what Epcot's FW does because Disney has - for a long time - no clue what Epcot is. It won't be that way forever, though.

True dat. That's part of the reason I don't care much about Epcot not being addressed at the present time. It's not that I don't think it could use some help, but I don't think current P&R leadership would do a proper renovation/expansion anyway (also, I think DAK and DHS need far more help right now anyway, so money should be directed towards them).

I'd rather they plod along with minor tinkering here and there at Epcot (Frozen Norway is bad enough, I'd hate to see what other plans would come up). Hopefully by the time Epcot really needs massive work, people in charge will have a better sense for its history and how it needs to be honored.

 

[Matt_Black]

I'm starting to think that Epcot is too far gone at this point. I'll be completely shocked if things ever improve at this point.

Imagination was ruined and every attempt to refresh it so far has been struck down, and Tony Baxter was informally fired recently (which to me signaled a final nail in the coffin for this ride having hope). Horizons was shut down in favor of an attraction that even at opening was somehow less futuristic than its predecessor, which admittedly was in need of updating in spite of my adoration of Horizons. Test Track still feels like you're riding in a car through an empty warehouse (the half arsed Tronish overlay didn't improve it for me), a horrible replacement for the fantastic World of Motion. Wonders of Life squandered for convention purposes. Innoventions is just sad. Spaceship Earth is at least still a good ride, but pales compared to at least the two forms predating it. The fact that imagineering and executives were lobbying to replace such a masterpiece with a roller coaster is offensive to me, a terrifying thought indeed. I am exceedingly grateful that it never happened. Universe of Energy was never a favorite of mine, but it at least definitely used to have a wonderful soundtrack and a great sense of dignity, both of which were dropped for the Ellen and Bill Nye overlay (and i grew up and really enjoyed Bill Nye). But it's far past time to overhaul the ride to coincide with how our concept of energy has changed in the recent past (sorry if it offends anyone, particularly the gop, but glorifying petroleum as a primary energy source is no longer a welcome ideal in modern society). The Living Seas is also a well known kiddified mess, almost all dignity lost. The Land is arguably the closest thing that remains of a respectably Epcot-like pavilion anymore at Future World (and both rides there are in awful condition sadly).

World Showcase is transitioning badly now as well. With what they've done to Mexico and now Norway, i smell an unpleasant future for that half of the park. I fear particularly for American Adventure, probably the best remaining attraction in the park. Food quality is completely ruined, good luck fixing that, especially with all the people guzzling that garbage.

I see no evidence that there's hope for Epcot at this point, i mean no offense and am sorry to say that but i've yet to see any real substantial evidence to have any hope. Especially with confirmation from 74 that executives are perfectly satisfied with staying the course they've chosen for the park (continuing to ruin what little good is left and escalate the overpriced poor quality booze and food events). And according to 74 and others in the know here, imagineering is just as much of a mess as the executive levels. They've thrown amazing talent like Tony Baxter under the bus, it sounds like imagineering has kicked out a lot of their prior talent. I don't know if there are talented and caring imagineers involved with Epcot, if there are then i'm not seeing their effects. Wouldn't matter much anyways whether wdi cares or not if the bean counters continue to hold the creatives in a choke hold.

"You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders."

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

"You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders."

I'm not that old though, only 26, which i don't think makes me old enough to complain about everything just for the sake of it (some things in life are better, some are worse). The decline at WDW actually began in the mid 90's, and i was still a young child at that time it started. And there are much older and more experienced people than myself here (such as 74 and Martin) who have far greater experience with the parks going back to the 70's and 80's for even better perspective of when the decline began (but overwhelmingly the consensus regardless of age seems to be that the decline started sometime during the mid 90's). Even at that time i was aware of it though, but it was a slow gradual process at the start. This coincides with the events that were occurring on the executive level at the time, including Frank Wells' death and the point in which Eisner fired of much of the talent at WED and the animation studio (and the abolition of much of the old management teams and practices that kept the parks looking new and shiny).

I'd pinpoint the first visible signs of decline having begun in 1994, i was only 5-6 years old at the time and yes i was aware of a decline even at that very young age. My mom (who was already a bit older for a parent of a young kid, in her early 40's at the time) also took notice of it as well, though she didn't mention it until years later i guess due to not wanting to spoil the fun for me. They were still wrapping up some cool new projects such as SSE '94, Tower of Terror, and likely preliminary planning for Animal Kingdom (before the infamous budget cuts during construction). But 94 was also the year 20k Leagues closed and Horizons lost its sponsor (and became a sort of seasonally operated attraction). It was a bit easier to ignore certain things initially due to the still compelling developments occurring at the time, but it was visible regardless. In the short years following, World of Motion and Imagination were also replaced by inferior rides, and Horizons was also finally lost for a glorified spinner/simulator hybrid. After Animal Kingdom, there wasn't much interesting being built to help cover up the nosedive in quality occurring.

In the meantime, Disneyland perhaps had it even worse, its poor condition leading to guest deaths and a huge pr media scandal. And you're hardly going to convince anyone that Disneyland's decline was all in the heads of a few grumpy old people. At least things seem to have improved there due to public backlash (though i've heard people aren't happy with Colglazier), still no such luck for WDW so far. For every successful refurb like Splash Mountain, three other rides/attractions seem to devolve into further disrepair to counter any attempted improvement. Or we get stuck with short band aid refurbs such as the brakes on Space Mountain so they can continue to run things to failure.

Honestly, it's not that difficult to see that the overwhelming majority of changes made to the existing parks since circa 1995 have been negative. Particularly Epcot, not many people will claim that Imagination version 2/3 or Mission Space are better than their predecessors (those who rode them). Or that it's preferred to have an empty show building instead of Cranium Command and Body Wars.

 

[articos]

Great history lesson. Thanks for the post! Do you happen to know which panels were installed, and what their efficiency is? The fact the whole system was replaced probably really helped the efficiency. Brand new panels with old system infrastructure wouldn't have produced what a whole new system produces.

I'm interested in that stuff, which is one of the reasons I like EPCOT (and to a lesser extent, WDW). It is an engineering marvel. EPCOT, with the engineering, the architecture, the layout, and the concepts is what really captivates me. Without EPCOT, I wouldn't waste time at WDW. EPCOT is what WDW is all about - the heart and soul of the whole resort. It is a shame Disney forgot that.

You're welcome. I don't know the exact panels installed, I'm sorry. I will try to find out more. I agree on Epcot as a whole.

@MerlinTheGoat, I agree with you about the food quality and the direction that's been taken the past 10 years with individual changes, but I never think it's too far gone.

True dat. That's part of the reason I don't care much about Epcot not being addressed at the present time. It's not that I don't think it could use some help, but I don't think current P&R leadership would do a proper renovation/expansion anyway (also, I think DAK and DHS need far more help right now anyway, so money should be directed towards them).

I'd rather they plod along with minor tinkering here and there at Epcot (Frozen Norway is bad enough, I'd hate to see what other plans would come up). Hopefully by the time Epcot really needs massive work, people in charge will have a better sense for its history and how it needs to be honored.

Epcot is in the pipeline. And the people working on her also love the park and value the history. I think the changes being made to the rest of the property are small glimmers of hope that the right changes are starting to be made at the right levels to spend where money needs to be spent over time. They're not going to get everything right, but they will try.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You're welcome. I don't know the exact panels installed, I'm sorry. I will try to find out more. I agree on Epcot as a whole.

@MerlinTheGoat, I agree with you about the food quality and the direction that's been taken the past 10 years with individual changes, but I never think it's too far gone.



Epcot is in the pipeline. And the people working on her also love the park and value the history. I think the changes being made to the rest of the property are small glimmers of hope that the right changes are starting to be made at the right levels to spend where money needs to be spent over time. They're not going to get everything right, but they will try.

I want to believe you, but Frozen.

The park needs more than Frozen, Soarin' 2.0 and Illuminations updates to be "fixed". That's two improvements and one attendance grabber that further separates the park of today from the original intent.

 

[Matt_Black]

Things change. People keep complaining about how Epcot is very different from how it was 30 years ago, while ignoring the fact that the world itself is very different from how it was 30 years ago.

 

[articos]

I want to believe you, but Frozen.

The park needs more than Frozen, Soarin' 2.0 and Illuminations updates to be "fixed". That's two improvements and one attendance grabber that further separates the park of today from the original intent.

These things - properly correcting neglect - take time. A lot longer than most would think. Even admitting Norway's change, which I am not a fan of, there's hope to come.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Things change. People keep complaining about how Epcot is very different from how it was 30 years ago, while ignoring the fact that the world itself is very different from how it was 30 years ago.

EPCOT Center changing had nothing to do with a changing world, just people who preferred an easier path. The principles behind EPCOT Center are incredibly popular right now, but its not a value system that is accepting of whatever is tossed in.

 

[ULPO46]

Wasnt the original purpose of EPCOT a permanent worlds fair? This in hand tha nations remain as they are but future world can change when ever it is deemed it needs to be changed. Technology changes every day. Its not meant to last for ever. For one i actually can agree on one thing, for the price that toursist are paying for food, the quality should be better regardless of which park you are in. EPCOT had great food up until about 2008-2010 when a wave of new chefs and budget cuts were implemented on food. Somedays you might get lucky and get a decent meal but lets face it the quality is gone. I remeber a favorite of mine was the little restaurant in Japan. I used to order the Curry and used to get a lot of meat with it. Now if i get one chunk i get very lucky. Thr same goes for mexico and italy, and even the french pastry shop. I think the American pallet can stop being so naïve and realize that the food quality at EPCOT and the rest of the world kind of sucks. At least one thing that hasnt changed is the liquor and alcohol, disney can't control the distilleries and breweries. But as ive read i agree with most of you change is needed but baby steps first. The damage has been done and cant be fixed but hopefully wheb the newer generaition comes to power at the Walt Disney Co., things will change for the better because we carr and are detail oriented.

 

[BrerJon]

These things - properly correcting neglect - take time. A lot longer than most would think. Even admitting Norway's change, which I am not a fan of, there's hope to come.

I really, really hope you're right... but this is the same WDI that thought it was a great idea to put a wand on - and gravestones in front of - Spaceship Earth, a hat in front of the Chinese Theatre, Nemo in the Seas, potentially Phineas and Ferb in Imagination... heck, Imagination in its current form even... Imagineering doesn't have a great track record in the last fifteen years, especially at Epcot, and in my view the half-hearted and obvious work of the Imagineering of today doesn't deserve to be in the same breath as the incarnation of Imagineering that made Pirates, Splash or Mansion, or the guys who did Wizarding World for Universal.

This is the also the same management that cuts budgets to the bone on every project, thinks it's fine to leave the Yeti paralysed, has to close at least one attraction for every new one it opens and prides itself on how much it can chip away at its offering while still increasing the price point, and preferring to create new upcharge events and MagicBands instead of attractions. Again, not a great track record from the pencil pushers either.

So while I hope I'm wrong and there are people in the company who remember and love the old EPCOT Center, and would want to see that level of quality again, everything we've seen so far implies that their voices would be drowned out by those who think Epcot has never been better, and any exciting things they come up with won't get much further than a pitch room.

I would say let's wait and see, but they've had over a decade to pull their finger out, and failed miserably, so at this point I'm ready to let Epcot go and just hope I'm pleasantly surprised, instead of constantly feeling disappointed when nothing happens.

 

[Monoblanco13]

I'd say if Disney doesn't think of a way to reinvent future world, it's going to suck. But, well, that ship has sailed. Really, the whole premise just needs to change. outside of the land, test track, and mission space- I'd want them to reinvent everything else (including you imaginations).

I honestly wouldn't mind something being done with Mission Space one day after everything else is fixed as its usually an attraction that I could skip. Lines are never long at least when I go, and I know its a decent ride though I feel something is missing. I wonder if anyone feels the same?

 

[ABQ]

I honestly wouldn't mind something being done with Mission Space one day after everything else is fixed as its usually an attraction that I could skip. Lines are never long at least when I go, and I know its a decent ride though I feel something is missing. I wonder if anyone feels the same?

I actually enjoy the attraction for what it is, though new video would be nice. However, I'd settle for the gravity wheel being fixed in the queue. Haven't seen it spin in years. But once it was allowed to go unfixed post the Compaq/HP sponsorship expired, I think it was doomed to never be fixed.

 

[doctornick]

I honestly wouldn't mind something being done with Mission Space one day after everything else is fixed as its usually an attraction that I could skip. Lines are never long at least when I go, and I know its a decent ride though I feel something is missing. I wonder if anyone feels the same?

The attraction could be refurbed, but it isn't bad as is. But I do think that they need to expand the offering into a full blown "Space Pavilion". I believe that was the original plan when they were going to M:S.

 

[Monoblanco13]

I would love to believe changes are coming as I was requested to take a survey on my visit to Epcot, though it seemed to be lacking. I was able to rate the attractions 1-10 but not able to comment as to why I scored them the way I did. As much as I love EO I rated EO, UoE, and Imagination very poorly in hopes for something to be done. I have my fingers crossed but at the same time basically taking it with a grain of salt unfortunately

 

[Monoblanco13]

The attraction could be refurbed, but it isn't bad as is. But I do think that they need to expand the offering into a full blown "Space Pavilion". I believe that was the original plan when they were going to M:S.

I honestly don't feel like the attraction is bad, I enjoy it when I'm on it and its a great experience. Just feel like its lacking something. Maybe I wish it had more stuff from Space camp that I never got to experience. This attraction could be put on the back burner though as other Pavilions need more love.

 

[Monoblanco13]

I agree- it's definitely not the most pressing issue, but I think the problem lies in the tiny screen. Our smartphones are almost as big as those now

It would not be a bad idea to do a handful of missions too since that would increase the desire to re-ride it. Of course, does Disney want to encourage you to ride twice?

I didn't even put thought to that but that would be neat having a series of missions kinda like Star Tours. Also with how much CGI has improved make the mission more realistic. I kinda would like the same if they keep Figment for an Imagination refurb. Keep him "cartoony" but up to date and more detailed I would reference Nintendo's characters they are family friendly and well designed.

 

[gmajew]

I honestly wouldn't mind something being done with Mission Space one day after everything else is fixed as its usually an attraction that I could skip. Lines are never long at least when I go, and I know its a decent ride though I feel something is missing. I wonder if anyone feels the same?

They need to work on a few of the other pavilions before they worry about this one.

ENERGY is in the worse shape and needs the most attention followed by Imagination.

 

[Monoblanco13]

They need to work on a few of the other pavilions before they worry about this one.

ENERGY is in the worse shape and needs the most attention followed by Imagination.

IMO they could shut down UoE right now and build an attraction in its place without anyone being too bothered. That attraction has had a very long run and needs to be replaced. I am in full agreement that it needs to be one of the first things they tackle.

 

[flyerjab]

These things - properly correcting neglect - take time. A lot longer than most would think. Even admitting Norway's change, which I am not a fan of, there's hope to come.

Man, I really do like when you post. Especially posts like these.

 

[articos]

Man, I really do like when you post. Especially posts like these.

Thanks!