Muppets

[Brer Panther]

So, here's an interesting discussion we could start up... Favorite and least favorite Muppet movies.

I'm not sure what my favorite would be. The Muppet Movie is a good place to start, but I like The Great Muppet Caper too.

As for least favorite, you could probably guess that I don't like Muppets Most Wanted very much. The Christmas special from 2002 was bad, too (I haven't seen Muppets Wizard of Oz, but I doubt that was any better).

 

[tcool]

My favorite Muppet film either Great Caper or Take Manhantan

My least favorite is Most Wanted, and with that said I still liked that movie.

 

[DisneyManOne]

Muppets Most Wanted got a 78% (equal to four-star) rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It even got the coveted Certified Fresh rating! So what's with all the backlash?

 

[tcool]

Muppets Most Wanted got a 78% (equal to four-star) rating on Rotten Tomatoes. It even got the coveted Certified Fresh rating! So what's with all the backlash?

I believe its with the fact that no one but ANimal and Walter suspected Constantine not being Kermit, but I wasn't really bothered by that. It was a fun movie that I enjoyed its just the rest of the Muppet Movies I've seen are better in comparison thus it being my least favorite.

 

[Brer Panther]

I believe its with the fact that no one but ANimal and Walter suspected Constantine not being Kermit

Yep, that pretty much covers it. Also, Gonzo implies at the end that they did know something was wrong but just pretended he was Kermit so that they could do whatever they wanted. Which makes them jerks.

 

[DisneyManOne]

Yep, that pretty much covers it. Also, Gonzo implies at the end that they did know something was wrong but just pretended he was Kermit so that they could do whatever they wanted. Which makes them jerks.

Yes, but you say "implied"...so that may or may not have happened. Also, I believe the Muppets were fully aware that it's a movie (a la Great Muppet Caper), so I believe they were just doing what the script said...

 

[JiminyandTink]

1 Muppets thread
1 pot of coffee
1 hour of my morning spent reading online

PRICELESS

 

[Brer Panther]

Yes, but you say "implied"...so that may or may not have happened.

Gonzo flat-out states that they "convinced themselves" that Constantine was Kermit because he was giving them what they thought they wanted. How else am I supposed to take that?

Also, I believe the Muppets were fully aware that it's a movie (a la Great Muppet Caper), so I believe they were just doing what the script said...

We must remember that the Muppets are not real. So it's not a matter of "oh, it's just a movie, they aren't REALLY that dumb". What really happened is that two guys who don't know how to write for the Muppets believe that they're all morons with the combined IQ of a toaster oven and that it was in-character for them not to notice that an obvious fake has stolen their friend's identity.

 

[Nick Wilde]

1 Muppets thread
1 pot of coffee
1 hour of my morning spent reading online

PRICELESS

Aren't these threads just wonderful?

 

[Brer Panther]

Yes, I'm gonna talk about Muppets Most Wanted again... Why does everyone say that unlike in the 2011 movie, the Muppets were actually the main characters? The only Muppets who were all that prominent were Kermit, Piggy, and arguably Fozzie, Walter, and Animal. The rest of the Muppets didn't do anything (besides acting like idiots).

 

[Matt_Black]

The rest of the Muppets didn't do anything (besides acting like idiots).

You're... not familiar with the Muppets oeuvre, are you?

"Will you stop this foolishness?"
"What kind of foolishness would you like to see?"

 

[DisneyManOne]

You're... not familiar with the Muppets oeuvre, are you?

"Will you stop this foolishness?"
"What kind of foolishness would you like to see?"

I agree--the Muppets and acting like idiots are like bread and butter. They're meant to go together.

 

[Brer Panther]

There's kind of a difference between being loveable and goofy and being an idiot. Take Fozzie: he isn't just "the dumb one" like the writers made him out to be (seriously, one of them called him stupid in an interview). He's just naïve. He's kind of like Winnie the Pooh.

Other people on other sites have explained this much better than I could...

 

[Matt_Black]

It really depends on the movie. I watched Muppets From Space the other night (admittedly, probably the worst Muppets film) and he's got some pretty dumb moments there.

 

[Brer Panther]

Well, yeah, he was pretty dumb in Muppets From Space too (and in Muppet Treasure Island), though to be honest, my main problem with him in that movie wasn't that he was dumb. It was that he was barely in it until the third act! Seriously, he had a quick shower gag in the "Brick House" sequence and like one line during Gonzo's party, but until they go to rescue Gonzo that's it.

 

[Matt_Black]

Well, yeah, he was pretty dumb in Muppets From Space too (and in Muppet Treasure Island), though to be honest, my main problem with him in that movie wasn't that he was dumb. It was that he was barely in it until the third act! Seriously, he had a quick shower gag in the "Brick House" sequence and like one line during Gonzo's party, but until they go to rescue Gonzo that's it.

That may have been due to Frank Oz. While not as old then as he is now obviously, he was slowly segueing into pseudo-retirement, so they may have downplayed his characters on purpose to work around his needs.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That may have been due to Frank Oz. While not as old then as he is now obviously, he was slowly segueing into pseudo-retirement, so they may have downplayed his characters on purpose to work around his needs.

Or maybe, they are just puppets that were designed to entertain, have no intelligence and are just doing a show for everyone via somebodies hand and voice reading a script. They cannot be depicted as dumb or smart due to that little detail about not being real. I'd take solace in the fact that a bear can talk, much less tell smart jokes.

 

[Matt_Black]

Or maybe, they are just puppets that were designed to entertain, have no intelligence and are just doing a show for everyone via somebodies hand and voice reading a script. They cannot be depicted as dumb or smart due to that little detail about not being real. I'd take solace in the fact that a bear can talk, much less tell smart jokes.

... Yeah, and Simba was just ink on on plastic with Matthew Broderick talking in a booth. There was no depth to the character of Simba at all. Just a cartoon.

 

[Goofyernmost]

... Yeah, and Simba was just ink on on plastic with Matthew Broderick talking in a booth. There was no depth to the character of Simba at all. Just a cartoon.

In reality that is correct. Depth of character is something that individuals with operating brains have, not cloth toys or ink drawings. I understand that depiction is less then some would like to see, but, how grown up people can care is beyond my apparently limited ability to comprehend. With Fozzie in particular, the idea of dumb or naive is depicted with a very fine line between the two. It depends on the mood of the script writer and even perhaps the mood of the puppeteer or the message they are trying to convey.

 

[Matt_Black]

So, characters in live action films can have depth, but not cartoons or puppets? That's awfully dismissive to all the writers, directors, and actors who work in the latter mediums.