Mousetrapped 2010

[bobtabin]

Check out this story and video named Mousetrapped 2010 (dealing with the Union and contract negotiations):

Story: http://www.wftv.com/news/25964343/detail.html

Video Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubqZNb_UO-8

Video Casting Call: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVIyIdCNcUc

Video News Coverage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8A_otP3I6w

Full Video: [I'm sure its coming soon after tonight’s' meeting]

I am not a cast member; I just happened across this video on the local News.

 

[Pseybert]

And here.

We.

Go.

 

[Main Street USA]

In just reading from the first link above, there are comments from a 17 year veteran custodian who makes "only" $13.57 an hour. How much does he think he should make as a custodian? There has to be a point where you top out in such a job, and without trying to advance into a different position, $13.57 an hour for custodial work is pretty damn good, no matter how long you've been with a company.

I truly mean no disrespect to anyone, but it seems this is another case of someone feeling entitled to something they aren't entitled to. "I deserve this because I've been here a long time." I'm sure he's had several raises over those 17 years, but that's not enough? What does he want? $20 an hour for sweeping and cleaning? Never. If you want more money, find a job that pays more than doing custodial work.

You're free to find other work if you choose. We all are.

 

[TP2000]

I truly mean no disrespect to anyone, but it seems this is another case of someone feeling entitled to something they aren't entitled to. "I deserve this because I've been here a long time." I'm sure he's had several raises over those 17 years, but that's not enough? What does he want? $20 an hour for sweeping and cleaning? Never. If you want more money, find a job that pays more than doing custodial work.

You're free to find other work if you choose. We all are.

I agree completely. You don't want to be mean, but at some point you have to ask what planet these folks are living on that they think they are entitled to a comfy middle-class lifestyle for working entry level theme park jobs that require little to no education or special experience. :veryconfu

I watched that little Mousetrapped "trailer" on YouTube. They interview a 40 year old grown man who works selling theme park tickets in a booth at the TTC; he's quite overweight, with a personality that doesn't make you want to sit next to him at a dinner party. He repeatedly claims he has to go to "amscot" every week because he makes so little, and that he works 50 hours per week and after paying his health insurance and "other deductions" (his exact words) he only clears 165 dollars per week.

I had to google "amscot", and discovered it's an Orlando area payroll check cashing place that charges ridiculous fees and interest charges. If a 40 year old man doesn't have a proper bank account and can't budget to make it through the week, then something tells me there are plenty of other bad choices regularly made and his employer can't be held responsible for him not making it beyond entry level work at that point in his life and career.

At some point you have to ask... Just how much money per hour should a ticket seller at the TTC make? A guy loading people into plastic boats at Pirates of the Caribbean? A gal taking cheeseburger orders at Tomorrowland Terrace? A man sweeping up churro wrappers in World Showcase?

 

[parkgoer]

Ok guys, a capped salary is not the only thing the union is going after. You guys would be great for the Disney legal team. You're making it hard not to agree with you! I agree somewhat about the salary cap, and at a certain point, you're not gonna make $20/hr being a custodian. But what about the new people that start at less than $8/hr and takes them 3-4years just to make $9/$10 hr? How is it that the guy that took your mcdonalds order is getting paid more than the monorail pilot with 300+ guests on his train? or the people loading your family on RnR? Disney expects A LOT from their CM's and don't pay accordingly. They expect long hours, low pay, high responsibility. It is impossible to make a living working any front line job at disney. Next time you go through the turnstyles, buy something in a gift shop, sit down and eat, check in at your hotel, get on a monorail/boat/train, get on any attraction or show, just remember those people are all poor.

 

[Fable McCloud]

I think it's awful how much Disney expects out of their CMs, especially with them not making much. It makes my heart ache when I think about what those people have to put up with (like all of us whining about every little thing *coughyeticough* or *coughCBJaudiocough*) and their pay doesn't match. It's yet another reason why I am one of those people who doesn't make a stink or act as if I'm always right. I know what it's like, you get that whole "I am NOT paid enough to put up with this" vibe going.

Since we can't help them get more money, we can help make their days a little better since they do such a great job making ours better.

 

[Monsterfan99]

I saw them marching/protesting last night on the way home. Not quite what I was expecting to see after a day at Universal. However, I think my favorite sign was "No Contract, No Peace." It made me think they would riot on Main Street if there was no contract :ROFLOL:

I agree with the union on they deserve better pay, but they are fighting a violent giant with words and name calling. If they want to know how well this will all turn out, ask the hotel workers at Disneyland. Disney will stand it's ground and happily replace them with some 19 year old kid with stars in their eyes. And with FL labor laws, Disney can get away with it too.

 

[ddbowdoin]

This issue is completely ridicolous... this is a free nation and the market sets itself. Why does Disney pay a wage below 8 dollars, because it can.... because the FL economy allows it to. Is universal starting people at 14 dollars an hour? No... because they're all woven in the competitive game of the free market. Personally, I'd like to see the numbers for operators of monorails... someone before me compared the salary of a McDonald's employee to that of a Monorail Operator and I can't see that comparison (my point is that I find it highly unlikely that someone operating a piece of machinery that expensive and with the risk of passengers would be paid sub 10 dollars).

I hate to say this, but you have to draw the line and look at it from a business point of view. WDW is a business, it must stay competitive, and the only people they have any relation to are their shareholders... and the bottom line must be upheld. Is it fun making 8 dollars an hour? Obviously not, but there comes a point where people have to be responsible for themselves. Life is not game, not every situation is a dreamjob... I'd love to make 60K working at a golf course, but I can't... so I (w the help of my parents) realized that in life in order to make the greenbacks you need to take the necessary steps in life, as well as make some sacrafices. I'm sitting in my chair, shirt and tie... do I hate my job? NO... but I'm also not waking up everyday excited to trade fixed income bonds... but the paycheck on Friday allows me to follow other passions in my life and hence, that is why I do what I do.

 

[Crazy4Diz]

I worked in a non union position and started out well above minimum wage. At one point I thought about transferring to a position in the parks but decided against it because pay was regulated because of the presence of union contracts. Increases were not based on performance like the area I worked. Personally I feel the cast members would be better off without the unions, pay increase could be based on individual performance. In the 4 years I worked there I saw very acceptable pay increases. Disney is an awsome company to work for and unless you are a poor performer or one who complains all the time really tries to help you advance within the organization.

 

[devoy1701]

I saw them marching/protesting last night on the way home. Not quite what I was expecting to see after a day at Universal. However, I think my favorite sign was "No Contract, No Peace." It made me think they would riot on Main Street if there was no contract :ROFLOL:

I agree with the union on they deserve better pay, but they are fighting a violent giant with words and name calling. If they want to know how well this will all turn out, ask the hotel workers at Disneyland. Disney will stand it's ground and happily replace them with some 19 year old kid with stars in their eyes. And with FL labor laws, Disney can get away with it too.

Disney isn't "getting away" with anything. They pay what the market pays. Front line theme park positions are considered entry level jobs, a custodian despite being there for 17 years shouldn't expect $20 and hour and it isn't expected that a 40 year old man working as a Ticket agent at the TTC should have to support anything/anyone/family, etc. (Actually it probably isn't expected that a 40 year old would be working as a ticket agent at all...) Of course someone is going to bring up economic conditions now any what have you.

I worked in a non union position and started out well above minimum wage. At one point I thought about transferring to a position in the parks but decided against it because pay was regulated because of the presence of union contracts. Increases were not based on performance like the area I worked. Personally I feel the cast members would be better off without the unions, pay increase could be based on individual performance. In the 4 years I worked there I saw very acceptable pay increases. Disney is an awsome company to work for and unless you are a poor performer or one who complains all the time really tries to help you advance within the organization.

Exactly. Rate of pay should be based on individual performance, not what a Union says your pay should be. I understand Pay floors and pay ceilings, but community raises/bonuses, etc. I am 22 and have see VERY significant pay raises in my short career to the point I am making more than twice what I was making only 2 years ago. Now granted I wasn't making much then...but my hard work, determination, and drive has done wonders for me. A lot of companies and instances would be better without Unions.

 

[ddbowdoin]

Thats the problem with the union position... its marginal increases across all levels, as opposed to giving people incentives to prove themselves over their fellow employees to earn a higher stake.

 

[ExCM]

In just reading from the first link above, there are comments from a 17 year veteran custodian who makes "only" $13.57 an hour. How much does he think he should make as a custodian? There has to be a point where you top out in such a job, and without trying to advance into a different position, $13.57 an hour for custodial work is pretty damn good, no matter how long you've been with a company.

I've read a lot of similar comments on various sites and no offense, but you don't have a clue. Outsiders look at this as a cut and dried $13/hr for a custodian with 17 years is good enough. I've been going to WDW since year 1, and I was a CM for 10 years having left last year.

Can the CMs who you think make enough, go other places? You bet. 17 yrs at Disney on a resume no matter what the position will get you another job. 10 yrs on my resume got me a job making 3 times what Disney paid. Can Disney replace the disgruntled workers? Absolutely! What do you have then? You have an ok amusement park. That's it. There's really nothing special about the rides. What's the jungle cruise without the cm doing the commentating? You want rides? Stay home and go to six flags or go to universal or cedar point. It's a whole lot cheaper with better rides.

It's the cast members who make the Disney magic.
What are you going to do...bring in people from the street to take over? Who's going to train them? The managers? I got news for you. Most of the managers at disney are young (you won't find too many middle aged married white guys), fresh out of college, people who accepted a lower paying management job with the most recognizable company in the world. Most have few people skills, and the only thing that they know about disney is from the few class hours that disney provided. They are paper shufflers who give stuff away to solve problems. How do they learn how to deal with people and where do they learn about how disney was and how it should be? The CMs who have been doing it for years. Did you realize that the population of WDW at any given time is a quarter of a million people? During the busy seasons, there are approximately 62,000 cms. Do you really want the cms who know disney to go away? When is the last time you saw a family celebrate because they were going to universal? Disney CMs do their jobs (which is take care of their guests) dealing with more people on a day to day basis than anyone else in the world.
Pay them for what they know, as well as, what they do!

 

[jakeman]

Glad we got the common man vs. evil management take documented on the first page.

I was worried we would have to wait until the second page before that was trotted out.

Disney should pay what the market will allow. Why should they be forced to pay more for what is essentially an entry level job?

With that said, Disney should go back to the extensive Traditions training they had along with the specific area training as well to shore up cast members appreciation for what they are a part of.

My understanding is that it is a mere shadow of itself now.

 

[s8film40]

Ok guys, a capped salary is not the only thing the union is going after. You guys would be great for the Disney legal team. You're making it hard not to agree with you! I agree somewhat about the salary cap, and at a certain point, you're not gonna make $20/hr being a custodian. But what about the new people that start at less than $8/hr and takes them 3-4years just to make $9/$10 hr? How is it that the guy that took your mcdonalds order is getting paid more than the monorail pilot with 300+ guests on his train? or the people loading your family on RnR? Disney expects A LOT from their CM's and don't pay accordingly. They expect long hours, low pay, high responsibility. It is impossible to make a living working any front line job at disney. Next time you go through the turnstyles, buy something in a gift shop, sit down and eat, check in at your hotel, get on a monorail/boat/train, get on any attraction or show, just remember those people are all poor.

This is my problem with unions, they are set up to encourage a lifelong career. I don't think many of the WDW jobs are career type jobs. You can make very decent money for the type of jobs you just have to have worked there for ten years. The problem is people get a job there work long enough that they are actually getting paid decent and then after putting in all those years are very hesitant to look for anything else because they wouldn't want to lose that valuable seniority they worked so hard for. I would much rather see Disney pay a flat rate for each position regardless of seniority. If they took what they pay now and spread it out they could offer a much better starting pay, attract better employees, and no one would feel trapped to work there.

 

[devoy1701]

This is my problem with unions, they are set up to encourage a lifelong career. I don't think many of the WDW jobs are career type jobs. You can make very decent money for the type of jobs you just have to have worked there for ten years. The problem is people get a job there work long enough that they are actually getting paid decent and then after putting in all those years are very hesitant to look for anything else because they wouldn't want to lose that valuable seniority they worked so hard for. I would much rather see Disney pay a flat rate for each position regardless of seniority. If they took what they pay now and spread it out they could offer a much better starting pay, attract better employees, and no one would feel trapped to work there.

So you want to "spread the wealth around" and not pay people based on how they perform but instead just pay everyone the same???

 

[s8film40]

So you want to "spread the wealth around" and not pay people based on how they perform but instead just pay everyone the same???

I think performance raises are a good idea, I just think each job should have a set pay rate and seniority shouldn't be a factor in pay. I don't think staying in the same entry level job for years should be rewarded. There are many other jobs in the area that offer a starting pay somewhere between Disney's starting and and top pay. These jobs attract much better employees and these employees are usually much more likely to move onto something bigger and better. After all they could always come back to their old job if things didn't work out. If your a Disney employee you seniority becomes a security blanket you can't leave to try something new and better because if it didn't work out you would probably have a $5 an hour pay cut if things didn't work out and you had to come back.

 

[Master Yoda]

Could Disney pay more, even considerably more, than market rate for entry level jobs? Sure, but will you the consumer be willing to pay the huge spike in ticket, merchandise and/or food prices to cover it? People go bonkers when ticket prices go up 5% +/- every year. What do you think they will do if they jump 50%?

 

[Shannon_Yensid]

This issue is completely ridicolous... this is a free nation and the market sets itself. Why does Disney pay a wage below 8 dollars, because it can.... because the FL economy allows it to. Is universal starting people at 14 dollars an hour? No... because they're all woven in the competitive game of the free market. Personally, I'd like to see the numbers for operators of monorails... someone before me compared the salary of a McDonald's employee to that of a Monorail Operator and I can't see that comparison (my point is that I find it highly unlikely that someone operating a piece of machinery that expensive and with the risk of passengers would be paid sub 10 dollars).

For your information, and not because I want to get in the middle of this lol, I do have the info you requested. A Monorail host/hostess starts off making 7.90/hr and tops out at 14.17/hr. and yes, all monorail cast drive the monorails, not just the ones that have been there for years and years. Just like all bus drivers drive busses (oh and they start at 10.55). That club level concierge that does anything and everything from your room status, dining reservations, tickets, hunting down lost items and whatever else you ask, yep, they start at 9.25 and top out at 13.44. Oh and trainers? They are only a buck more an hour than the people they train. And that lifeguard at your resort... 8.20. ** these figures are all taken directly from Addendum A in the STCU contract valid April 29th, 2007 to October 2nd, 2010 and all rates are the 2010 rates after all the raises effective in the contract**

so yea... we're under 10 bucks.

This is all not to say that I don’t agree with those of you who rightly pointed out that these are entry level jobs, but because there are no performance based pay raises, how do you ever get out of entry level? Wouldn't it be nice to just dump the union all together and let the market work it all out? As someone in a union job against their will, I’d love it. (love the job, hate the union)

Oh and the health benefits the one guy complains about, please Disney has great health benefits.. As a single woman I pay $9/week and LOVE my coverage. All my well visits are totally free (lab work and all) my prescriptions are cheap, copays are low and the company gives me a $250 flexible spending account plus we can earn up to $300 in rewards (that basically go to paying our health care premiums) for filling out an online survey, going to a free biometrics screening (actually STCU cast members were scheduled to go to this while on the clock) and keep our BMI in a healthy range (or work to reduce it 10% if out of the healthy range). Disney health benefits are outstanding compared to the other plans other companies might have.

Anyway clearly I have an opinion (who doesn’t) but I’d rather not get into the soup of it. I do have access to facts and figures if there’s anything else you’re particularly interested in knowing:wave:

oh and parkgoer, thanks for encouraging people to be nice to us poor cms lol:wave:

 

[captainkidd]

Eh, 2 sides to every story. Disney clearly pays crap. Then again, if you don't like it, you know where the door is. Go get another job.

 

[redshoesrock]

I've read a lot of similar comments on various sites and no offense, but you don't have a clue. Outsiders look at this as a cut and dried $13/hr for a custodian with 17 years is good enough. I've been going to WDW since year 1, and I was a CM for 10 years having left last year.

Can the CMs who you think make enough, go other places? You bet. 17 yrs at Disney on a resume no matter what the position will get you another job. 10 yrs on my resume got me a job making 3 times what Disney paid. Can Disney replace the disgruntled workers? Absolutely! What do you have then? You have an ok amusement park. That's it. There's really nothing special about the rides. What's the jungle cruise without the cm doing the commentating? You want rides? Stay home and go to six flags or go to universal or cedar point. It's a whole lot cheaper with better rides.

It's the cast members who make the Disney magic.
What are you going to do...bring in people from the street to take over? Who's going to train them? The managers? I got news for you. Most of the managers at disney are young (you won't find too many middle aged married white guys), fresh out of college, people who accepted a lower paying management job with the most recognizable company in the world. Most have few people skills, and the only thing that they know about disney is from the few class hours that disney provided. They are paper shufflers who give stuff away to solve problems. How do they learn how to deal with people and where do they learn about how disney was and how it should be? The CMs who have been doing it for years. Did you realize that the population of WDW at any given time is a quarter of a million people? During the busy seasons, there are approximately 62,000 cms. Do you really want the cms who know disney to go away? When is the last time you saw a family celebrate because they were going to universal? Disney CMs do their jobs (which is take care of their guests) dealing with more people on a day to day basis than anyone else in the world.
Pay them for what they know, as well as, what they do!

Well said. If you want quality people to work for you and stay, then you need to pay them a quality living wage. Statements like, "He/She is 'only' a ____, what are they expecting?" always seems to be made in ignorance. The implication behind those statements always seems to be that "those" jobs aren't "real" jobs - they aren't important enough to warrant a decent living wage. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the 17-year veteran custodial CM is still there because, just maybe, he *enjoys* his job and enjoys working at Disney but wished he would be paid better? Just because you wouldn't do his job doesn't mean 100% of everyone else feels the same. Every job at Disney is just as important as every other job, and if you think otherwise you can't see the forest for the trees. And leaving it up to "the market" is the attitude that has caused these economic problems. Look at how much inflation has gone up compared to how much wages have gone up; it's not even close. Families used to need only one breadwinner, be able to save enough to pay for their children to go to college if they chose to, and have their pension ready for them when they retired. Now families have two breadwinners that don't seem to make enough, they have to rely on outrageous loans for their children's college, and pensions are getting smaller and smaller. People now have to work twice as hard for half as much, and I find the situation unacceptable.