Morocco Pavilion facing financial troubles

[_caleb]

They don’t touch much of any of that stuff

What they do ...since late 90’s...have a authoritarian stranglehold on the money...and those beneath have honestly no say...and If they push that idea...they are cast out and repalcrx

So “corporate culture” does dictate production or lack
Thereof

Good point. Most of the "little" decisions (they add up to a lot, don't they?) are shaped and limited by the money.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

What they do ...since late 90’s...have a authoritarian stranglehold on the money...and those beneath have honestly no say...and If they push that idea...they are cast out and repalcrx

Yes. This really explains it all doesn’t it!

 

[Prototype82]

A lot already are:

Fully owned and operated by Disney:
Canada
UK
Germany
Norway
American Adventure
(Soon) Morocco

Partly owned and operated (merchandise and attractions)
Mexico
Italy
France

Attraction only operated and owned by Disney:
China
Japan

Doesn't Mitsukoshi Ltd operate the restaurants in Epcot as well as the department store?

 

[jaklgreen]

It was good, when it was fresh. Which was hardly ever.

See how the food in the case is covered in plastic wrap? That's because it isn't a display sample. Those are literally the dishes they made up that morning (or who know when) and serve to customers. It's fine if you like the food, calling it "the best in all of Disney" hurts your credibility a bit.

View attachment 507704

Please! They do NOT serve that to people. That is strictly for display. Many restaurants make a daily plate that they use for display and then gets tossed at the end of the night. Covering it in plastic keeps the flies off of it. They are an open restaurant after all.

 

[mdcpr]

let's face it, families with kids will pass by most pavilions unless there is a ride or similar attraction to visit... They really should have added an attraction over the years if they are wanting to make the park more family friendly...It would have made more sense to give each showcase pavilion without an attraction, a full real ride that is appropriate for it's location than start adding superheroes to Future World...
Ratatouille fully works... A Coco overlay in the Mexico pavilion is another example of something that would work...I would even think an Aladdin attraction in Morocco would be technically acceptable as long as they don't retheme the whole pavilion to Agrabah...lol

I don't agree. My kids were fascinated by the architecture of Morocco, loved the little museum in Japan, and wanted pastries from France. Not all families, nor children go for rides. All families are different, and believe it or not, some families use Epcot as an intro to other countries. That's what my parents did with me an my siblings back in the mid-80s.

 

[LastoneOn]

A “disher” is an ice cream scoop used to portion food.

View attachment 507789

rice, ice cream, cookie dough, mashed potatoes, slop, whatever.

What's next: spatula vs turner?
Dough scraper vs bench knife?
Cake server vs pie cutter vs shovel?
Whisk vs beater?
...

 

[LastoneOn]

let's face it, families with kids will pass by most pavilions unless there is a ride or similar attraction to visit... They really should have added an attraction over the years if they are wanting to make the park more family friendly...It would have made more sense to give each showcase pavilion without an attraction, a full real ride that is appropriate for it's location than start adding superheroes to Future World...
Ratatouille fully works... A Coco overlay in the Mexico pavilion is another example of something that would work...I would even think an Aladdin attraction in Morocco would be technically acceptable as long as they don't retheme the whole pavilion to Agrabah...lol

You've never been there. Because if you've been there you KNOW the places are crammed with kids, strollers the whole bit. I guess you could be exaggerating.

 

[jaklgreen]

I don't agree. My kids were fascinated by the architecture of Morocco, loved the little museum in Japan, and wanted pastries from France. Not all families, nor children go for rides. All families are different, and believe it or not, some families use Epcot as an intro to other countries. That's what my parents did with me an my siblings back in the mid-80s.

Our family also loved EPCOT. My kids really enjoyed going around the Countries to look around. If you slow down and actually see what there is to there, you will find many interesting things. Same with all of the trails in AK.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

You've never been there. Because if you've been there you KNOW the places are crammed with kids, strollers the whole bit. I guess you could be exaggerating.

You’re imagining those people. Nobody goes to the world showcase pavilions just like nobody watches the live music and streetmosphere.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

let's face it, families with kids will pass by most pavilions unless there is a ride or similar attraction to visit... They really should have added an attraction over the years if they are wanting to make the park more family friendly...It would have made more sense to give each showcase pavilion without an attraction, a full real ride that is appropriate for it's location than start adding superheroes to Future World...
Ratatouille fully works... A Coco overlay in the Mexico pavilion is another example of something that would work...I would even think an Aladdin attraction in Morocco would be technically acceptable as long as they don't retheme the whole pavilion to Agrabah...lol

I feel bad for families that can’t appreciate the showcase

 

[mdcpr]

Our family also loved EPCOT. My kids really enjoyed going around the Countries to look around. If you slow down and actually see what there is to there, you will find many interesting things. Same with all of the trails in AK.

We love Animal Kingdom! IMO, best food of all the parks (Tiffins, Tusker House), loved the entertainment and we did all the trails. An entire full day of greatness.

 

[MrPromey]

The original deals long since expired. Each re-up brought “today’s realities” into play.

Disney should have done longer deals (at perhaps lower costs), but with mandatory reinvestment projects padded into them.

No, I get all of that but The Living Seas opened in 1986, Norway opened in 1988 and Wonders of Life opened in 1989. Obviously, the sponsorship model was alive and kicking at that time. A loading area was built for a boat ride in Germany prior to the park opening for instance - there were clearly plans for attractions that we never got (including construction costs spent for some of it) even before the gates opened and they managed to add sponsor-driven attractions for years after opening.

To be clear when I say each one should have had something from the start, I'm not talking about all e-tickets or even basic boat rides like Mexico. I mean anything substantial. A film - not even 360 - just something.

A film in Morocco, for instance, about actual Morocco, seems like it would have been a more interesting look into a world people going to Epcot were likely not that familiar with in the 80's (and probably today) than say, France, wouldn't you think?

I understand how none of this is with "original" attractions is happening now, and hasn't happened over the last 20-25 years. What I'm wondering about is why World Showcase just became frozen (no pun intended) in terms of attractions so early on. We got a boat ride with Norway but then nothing else, ever.

... well until the current IP based things.

 

[_caleb]

Please! They do NOT serve that to people. That is strictly for display. Many restaurants make a daily plate that they use for display and then gets tossed at the end of the night. Covering it in plastic keeps the flies off of it. They are an open restaurant after all.

Many do, yes. And hopefully they throw it out at the end of the day. But I'm telling you I was served a plate from the case. It was on a proper plate rather than the paper ones they typically use. It had clearly been sitting a while.

Here's a random photo of the food prep area. Look at the fryer baskets: falafel balls and fries, just sitting there (rather than under the heat lamp). Pre-cooked, room temp, just waiting to be "freshened up" to order by dropping them for a few seconds.

My point is that the quality of that place wasn't good. If you've ever worked in a kitchen, you might understand what I mean. Most of what we eat in restaurants these days comes ready-made out of a can or bag–especially in quick-serve places like this. But there's something to be said for preparing food to order, respecting hold times, and cutting costs without cutting corners. I saw the opposite at Tangerine Cafe.

If you like(d) the food, great! If you don't believe my story, who cares? The conversation came around to one of the few places I've had a bad experience with, so I shared it.

 

[Bocabear]

You've never been there. Because if you've been there you KNOW the places are crammed with kids, strollers the whole bit. I guess you could be exaggerating.

I was actually responding to several posts where they said they had kids and never went in these pavilions...
I have been through all of them a million times and love what they are and represent... The answer to people walking by is to have attractions... that's it. Finish building World showcase to it's original plan which had more attractions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No, I get all of that but The Living Seas opened in 1986, Norway opened in 1988 and Wonders of Life opened in 1989. Obviously, the sponsorship model was alive and kicking at that time. A loading area was built for a boat ride in Germany prior to the park opening for instance - there were clearly plans for attractions that we never got (including construction costs spent for some of it) even before the gates opened and they managed to add sponsor-driven attractions for years after opening.

I understand how none of this is with "original" attractions is happening now, and hasn't happened over the last 20-25 years. What I'm wondering about is why World Showcase just became frozen (no pun intended) in terms of attractions so early on. We got a boat ride with Norway but then nothing else, ever.

... well until the current IP based things.

United technologies bailed after their second deal...the original Norway consortium actually collapsed prior to the pavilion opening and a makeshift successor came in...MetLife canned wonders after one term (no money in health insurance anymore - apparently n)

 

[DCLcruiser]

No, it doesn't. An Egyptian minaret, for example, looks nothing like a Moroccan one.

"Arabia" does not refer to North Africa.

I am a history buff, and love to travel, so I 100% respect what you are saying. However, there are tons of similarities between Arab/Moorish/Islamic style architecture in Morocco, Egypt, Levant, Arabian Peninsula and even Iran (not Arab), which would be completely acceptable to guests. Also, it would allow Disney to reintroduce this part of the world (which has certain view amongst Americans) to the history, innovation and beauty of the Arab World.

Arabia may be more Arabian Penninsula, but predominantly Arab speaking countries (including Morocco...let's not argue over French Moroccans), could be represented.

For anyone confused, Arab World : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world

 

[larryz]

I’ll miss the chicken gyro

Shawarma

 

[LittleBuford]

I am a history buff, and love to travel, so I 100% respect what you are saying. However, there are tons of similarities between Arab style architecture in Morocco, Egypt, Levant, Arabian Peninsula and even Iran (not Arab), which would be completely acceptable to guests. Also, it would allow Disney to reintroduce this part of the world (which has certain view amongst Americans) to the history, innovation and beauty of the Arab World.

Arabia may be more Arabian Penninsula, but predominantly Arab speaking countries (including Morocco...let's not argue over French Moroccans), could be represented.

For anyone confused, Arab World : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_world

The pavilion is based specifically and closely on the architecture of Morocco. The similarities with other Arab cultures you’re pointing to are there, but only to the same extent that the countries of Europe have certain commonalities while remaining distinct in themselves.

A revealing fact: Moroccan Arabic is unintelligible to someone who speaks Egyptian Arabic. The difference between these two so-called dialects is greater than that between Italian and Spanish.

 

[DCLcruiser]

I think the last time someone really enjoyed the Morocco pavilion was Carl Winslow from Family Matters in 1995.

 

[MrPromey]

United technologies bailed after their second deal...the original Norway consortium actually collapsed prior to the pavilion opening and a makeshift successor came in...MetLife canned wonders after one term (no money in health insurance anymore - apparently n)

Again - totally picking up what you're putting down but in the roughly 15 year window from park opening to when most executives would be out of their mind for signing on to these things, it didn't seem like getting some sort of deal done was all that impossible.

I get that Epcot was built entirely on a sponsorship model and that the world changed and that became something impractical in most cases. I understand that's why The Living Seas languished for as long as it did before the IPification and it's what destroyed JII, etc.

What I don't get is why during the heyday, more didn't happen in World Showcase.

I get the problem today, though. If Disney's going to foot the bill, there better be a plush they can sell from whatever is inside. There will be no scenic rides down the Rhine river or educational films in Morocco - but back when the Moroccan King was involved in the construction of his pavilion, when the west was still using West Germany as a prop to make communism look bad, back when the voice of Darth Vader was telling us how we'd be seeing an Equatorial African pavilion and then, when Michael Eisner was micro-managing everything in the parks in a mostly still good way and when money could still be found, it just seems weird that some of the original plans - espeically the ones they'd already invested in partial construction for - never became or morphed into anything.

I guess maybe funding from US businesses for Future World stuff was easier to come by at the time than the international deals, maybe?