More families of autistic kids sue Disney parks

[GrumpyFan]

Side tangent/thought.... lets say the plaintiff's win. Lets say they get a FOTL pass. What happens when everyone claims they need a FOTL pass? Wont that just cause absolute chaos and a line for the FOTL?

Seems this would break park lines and how guests normally queue for attractions, in short, fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes! The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria!

Seriously though, I think Disney can beat this by showing they're doing everything possible for a reasonable accommodation as per the ADA mandates. That's not to say though that a court can't rule in the plaintiff's favor and force Disney to do something more, in which case, they would be smart to point to Universal and other parks and their policies.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Interesting Blog series with a legal perspective on this suit.

Here & Now (Prologue): The question of Autism In Amusement Park Under the ADA

Here & Now (Pt.1): Is Immediate Ride Boarding For Autistic Guests Really Necessary?

Here & Now (Pt.2): Is Immediate, On-Demand Ride Access For Autistic Guest Reasonable?

Here & Now (Pt.3): Isn't Standing In Line An Essential Rule of the Park ... Even for Autistic Guests?

 

[BuzzKillington]

Side tangent/thought.... lets say the plaintiff's win. Lets say they get a FOTL pass. What happens when everyone claims they need a FOTL pass? Wont that just cause absolute chaos and a line for the FOTL?

Disney will have to revert back to only recognizing visible disabilities when it comes to granting these special passes like it was in the beginning. When it comes to the autistic, you can visually determine which kids have serious sensory issues and those who have milder forms in which their parents are just using to milk the system.

Case in point: this kid has severe autism and deserves a pass.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Disney will have to revert back to recognizing visible disabilities only when it comes to granting these special passes like it was in the beginning. When it comes to the autistic, you can visually determine which kids have serious sensory issues and those who have milder forms in which their parents are just using them to milk the system.

Case in point: this kid has severe autism and deserves a pass.

Cant do that. Thats against the law.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I would guess that the reason they changed their policy in the first place is that so many kids are being diagnosed as on the spectrum. Does this mean the kid can get a pass written up by doctor even if they are barely on the spectrum, probably.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I would guess that the reason they changed their policy in the first place is that so many kids are being diagnosed as on the spectrum. Does this mean the kid can get a pass written up by doctor even if they are barely on the spectrum, probably.

Doctors can write those up until they run out of ink. The law is relatively clear that no proof is needed and there is no need to see one. All they have left is to define what they are willing to do to comply with the law and make the experience as general as possible with no discrimination. The new system helps out without creating a discriminatory situation, all are treated equally and with acknowledged ways to help those with certain problems. As usual it is extremely fair to everyone except those that want more then the law prescribes.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Doctors can write those up until they run out of ink. The law is relatively clear that no proof is needed and there is no need to see one. All they have left is to define what they are willing to do to comply with the law and make the experience as general as possible with no discrimination. The new system helps out without creating a discriminatory situation, all are treated equally and with acknowledged ways to help those with certain problems. As usual it is extremely fair to everyone except those that want more then the law prescribes.

I wasn't disagreeing, just saying why they might have changed the policy in the first place.

 

[tenchikiss]

Disney will have to revert back to recognizing visible disabilities only when it comes to granting these special passes like it was in the beginning. When it comes to the autistic, you can visually determine which kids have serious sensory issues and those who have milder forms in which their parents are just using them to milk the system.

Case in point: this kid has severe autism and deserves a pass.

I don't think posting a pic of the person most determined to make this new system not work and threatening cast members with her out of control son (her words, not mine*) is going to make this thread go well.

 

[Gomer]

I don't think posting a pic of the person most determined to make this new system not work and threatening cast members with her out of control son (her words, not mine*) is going to make this thread go well.

He has no intention of letting this thread go well.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I don't think posting a pic of the person most determined to make this new system not work and threatening cast members with her out of control son (her words, not mine*) is going to make this thread go well.

Would you expect any less from Buzz?

 

[tenchikiss]

Since I am not a lawyer and what not wouldn't this case have to be amended? Before adding MORE people to the lawsuit? Because with the DAS being tied somewhat to magic bands answers/fulfills some of the requests/demands in the original lawsuit does it not? Wouldn't it make the case easier to read/decide on if matters already taken care of were removed?

 

[BrianV]

Side tangent/thought.... lets say the plaintiff's win. Lets say they get a FOTL pass. What happens when everyone claims they need a FOTL pass? Wont that just cause absolute chaos and a line for the FOTL?

You'll need a "front of the front-of-the-line pass"!

If you can get a front of the line pass and it is illegal for them to question why you need one, why wouldn't everyne ask for one?

 

[Gomer]

Since I am not a lawyer and what not wouldn't this case have to be amended? Before adding MORE people to the lawsuit? Because with the DAS being tied somewhat to magic bands answers/fulfills some of the requests/demands in the original lawsuit does it not? Wouldn't it make the case easier to read/decide on if matters already taken care of were removed?

Technically the recent changes to make DAS electronic didn't do much to fulfill those requests. I haven't used the new version yet, but as I understand it, it just changes the paper return time to an electronically managed one. It doesn't alleviate the need to bring the person with the DAS to the ride to get the return time. Which was the main reason people wanted to see it added to DME/FP+. The electronic change does more to make it easier for Disney to keep track of than it does for the guests. Although I do believe there was a subset of people that didn't like the attention having a paper pass got them. So, I guess that could be seen as a benefit.

Like I said though, I haven't used the DAS since the change, so if I am misunderstanding the changes someone feel free to correct me.

 

[1023]

Isn't the exception a form of discrimination in it's own right? Isn't that why when we call out specific rights or withhold rights we are discriminating? I often find that the word discrimination has been given a negative connotation in colloquial use, but that is an entirely different discussion. Isn't it odd that those given the greatest latitude would demand more entitlement?

As is usually the case, I had typed several paragraphs in this space and have deleted them. When it comes to emotionally charged issues, my dispassionate approach is not read as intended. Suffice it to say, if the experience of the the individual is largely the same, why should anyone care is they wait in a virtual line? If they want something over and above what others get isn't that discrimination?

I will read what everyone here chooses to write on the subject and will do so with an open mind. I will however reserve the right to disagree with you.

*1023*

 

[Mouse_Trap]

You can debate the merits of an individual disability all day long, but wouldn't limiting the number of people that can skip the line to some reasonable number like 4 (disabled person + caretakers/family) keep the profiteers away?

Not really, because that what the previous system was supposed to involve. In reality it was loosely enforced or abused by groups who would get multiple cards.

Side tangent/thought.... lets say the plaintiff's win. Lets say they get a FOTL pass. What happens when everyone claims they need a FOTL pass? Wont that just cause absolute chaos and a line for the FOTL?

If that happens I hope there is a counteraction where everybody on specific days claims to need a FotL DAS. They won't be able to refuse, neither can they require proof and it will turn the FotL into the standard line.

 

[COrunner]

IMO Disney has made a reasonable accommodation, they realized a system was being abused (there were tour companies specifically marketing front of line access via GAC). I'd be interested in someone proposing an idea beyond 'Go back to the old system, give me the front of the line' that would be better than the current system which acknowledges the special guests needs but doesn't benefit them in regards to other patrons.

I think these threads devolve so quickly because of the way the prior system was a benefit instead of an accommodation. I understand that people are passionate about advocating for those who may not be able to advocate for themselves. Hopefully the conversation can be civil and interesting.

 

[ToTBellHop]

IMO Disney has made a reasonable accommodation, they realized a system was being abused (there were tour companies specifically marketing front of line access via GAC). I'd be interested in someone proposing an idea beyond 'Go back to the old system, give me the front of the line' that would be better than the current system which acknowledges the special guests needs but doesn't benefit them in regards to other patrons.

I think these threads devolve so quickly because of the way the prior system was a benefit instead of an accommodation. I understand that people are passionate about advocating for those who may not be able to advocate for themselves. Hopefully the conversation can be civil and interesting.

Oh surely. I can absolutely empathize with the parents. You get used to something and then Disney changes it, arguably for the worse as far as your own family is concerned. That doesn't make the change illegal, however. As an individual that is neither in an affected class nor related to an individual in an affected class, I find the new system more fair. I might feel differently if I had a child on the spectrum. But, I would also realize this is Disney's prerogative to change its policy as long as a reasonable accommodation is made. I think any reasoned analysis would conclude this is a reasonable accommodation. And, of course, if you don't like the Disney system and your kids cannot handle lines, you don't have to go to WDW for your vacation.

As to an earlier question: what do the plaintiffs want? They want the old system back. There are no reasonable damages in this case, other than maybe a refund for a vacation which is mere pennies to Disney, so it's not money. They likely hope that if they put up enough stink, Disney will bend in order to avoid an expensive lawsuit. Disney seems to want to stand its ground this time around, though.

 

[BuzzKillington]

I'd be interested in someone proposing an idea beyond 'Go back to the old system, give me the front of the line' that would be better than the current system which acknowledges the special guests needs but doesn't benefit them in regards to other patrons.

Not go back to the old system but rather the original system where only visual disabilities were recognized. It was the incorporation of invisible disabilities that led to the abuse and eventual demise of a program that accommodated the truly disabled so well.

 

[BuzzKillington]

I find the new system more fair.

So you think it is fair for those who are wheelchair bound to wait in the standard queue and then wait another 5 to 10 minutes for a wheelchair accessible ride vehicle to come around? Until this country adopts a universal healthcare system that Disney can tap into to find out who has a legitimate need for these passes, they will have no recourse other than to resort back to determining this requirement by visual means. There are way too many low-life parasites in this country that are prone to abuse the current system

 

[PhotoDave219]

Not go back to the old system but rather the original system where only visual disabilities were recognized. It was the incorporation of invisible disabilities that led to the abuse and eventual demise of a program that accommodated the truly disabled so well.

The system which you describe is illegal under ADA. Makes your argument entirely invalid.

There are way too many low-life parasites in this country that are prone to abuse the current system

Well, we all agree on that one.