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Monorail/Transportation Idea
- Thread starter nsxdrift_89
- Start date
stopgo
Member
Wow. Just... WOW! As a new member here I gotta tell you, this community could use a healthy dose of tolerance for us noobs. While the monorail/transportation information is fantastic I hope the tone of the discourse in this thread isn't indicative of the tone in other hot-button issue threads. A little patience with us as we settle in, please.
Thrawn, thanks for posting links to the other monorail discussion threads. The forum search tool (sadly) isn't generally widely used in most forums I participate in. Perhaps these emotional topics could use their own sticky posts with links to previous discussions, or even just a gentle reminder to use the search function. Might prevent a lot of wasted bandwidth and hurt feelings.
Thrawn, thanks for posting links to the other monorail discussion threads. The forum search tool (sadly) isn't generally widely used in most forums I participate in. Perhaps these emotional topics could use their own sticky posts with links to previous discussions, or even just a gentle reminder to use the search function. Might prevent a lot of wasted bandwidth and hurt feelings.
stopgo said:
Nah... it doesn't always get this bad... unfortunately it's not unheard of. But this is a HUGE community, and sometimes all it takes for things to get a bit nasty is for a few people to have a bad day at work/school, or to carry over some bitterness from previous threads. Most of us have been guilty of posting when not at our best but if you look around the forums, you'll find that most of what goes on is very positive :wave:
CapnStinxy
Member
peter11435 said:
Rilly? Why not???
CapnStinxy
Member
Thrawn said:
As the always importunate John McLaughlin sez...
WRONG!!!
There are a great many immersed-tube tunnels, both in this country and internationally, which are completely and constantly surrounded by water yet allow both road and rail vehicles to pass through them in a totally dry state. Just some of them in this country:
Ted Williams Tunnel, Boston
Ft. McHenry Tunnel, Baltimore
Thimble Shoals and Chesapeake tunnels (CBBT), Norfolk, VA
George Wallace Tunnel, Mobile, AL
Henry E. Kinney Tunnel, Ft. Lauderdale
BART Transbay Tube, San Francisco/Oakland
63rd St. Tunnel, New York
Hmmmmm...
Thrawn
Account Suspended
Duh. Yes. But are you going to say that a tunnel, with lots of entrances for resorts and parks and the other stops that Disney Transport makes, is going to be less expensive than something above ground?
Its called simplification. And its called a joke. Look into them.
Further, none of those "examples" you quoted are built in swampland. WDW property is. Meaning unstable grade, sinkholes, and such things. Do you know what happened to Horizons? Imagine Disney building a subway system and the same thing happening to a section of the track. Heck, the water table is the reason MK is built on the second floor.
Now who's wrong?
Its called simplification. And its called a joke. Look into them.
Further, none of those "examples" you quoted are built in swampland. WDW property is. Meaning unstable grade, sinkholes, and such things. Do you know what happened to Horizons? Imagine Disney building a subway system and the same thing happening to a section of the track. Heck, the water table is the reason MK is built on the second floor.
Now who's wrong?
brich
New Member
Hmmm So I also suppose you've heard of the "Big Dig" up here in Boston.... 100 gazillion dollars over budget... AND IT LEAKS LIKE CRAZY!! :lol:CapnStinxy said:
And it'll cost a gazillion dollars more to repair it. :zipit:
So tunnels under Florida eh? Sounds very cost efficient. Take it from a Massachusetts tax payer. If they start digging tunnels in Florida, move to Wyoming....and fast. :hammer:
You generally are the voice of reason so if you've ever had a moment, PLEASE, post a link ! :lol:
CapnStinxy
Member
brich said:
The underground, versus the underwater, sections of the CA/T leak because of shoddy construction by Bechtel/Parsons. The Ted Williams tunnel has been open since 1995 with no leaks, hmmm?
CaptainMichael
Well-Known Member
I thought this thread was over and done with after last night....
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Erika said:
The time warp is a song from the Rocky Horror Picture show. :wave:
CapnStinxy
Member
Thrawn said:
The original statement was, "can't be done in Florida." Absolute, no quarter. No mention of why. Which, when I inquired further, you said was because it would be "underwater." No mention of cost being the reason.
Wrong-a-rino, my friend. The Chesapeake estuary is very swampy. As is the east side of the channel under which the Wallace Tunnel passes. Though the New York subway as a whole wasn't part of my original list, the geology and geography of Brooklyn and Queens contains many square miles of swampy and marshy ground. Many a sandhog lost his life when the muck through which they were tunnelling collapsed on their heads.
As to the Magic Kingdom being on the second floor, that has more to do with the fact that mostly-hollow concrete structures are buoyant than it does with fears of water intrusion. In many other places, the subterranean structures can be anchored to bedrock, but in Florida, there's no bedrock of which to speak, so basements and such tend to crack catastrophically from being pushed up out of the ground. They can be made stable with ballast, but at a frightening cost.
Hurrfurrfurrh!
CapnStinxy
Member
brich said:Boston is for the most part landfill, therefore, the Big Dig is a perfect example of what a joke tunnels at WDW would be...
So is about half of lower Manhattan. Excavations can still turn up artifacts and junk from Dutch colonial times. Even so, it's riddled with subway, utility, and vehicular tunnels, and crowned with thousand-foot office towers. Even the WTC site is on landfill (hence the concrete bathtub in which it sat) and it took a hell of a punch to bring those buildings down.
brich
New Member
Wow, Google is a wonderful thing... :lol: So you propose tunnels? And you feel your examples prove your right-o-ringo? Well I suppose if your going to finance such a venture, I'll give it try. Hey we can put a man on the moon then we can do just about anything. Of course your only arguing that the tunnels are possible. As far as practical or economical, then you might not be right-o-rama. Being right-a-roni is what your shooting for here right?CapnStinxy said:
So, can you give me those examples of subway systems is florida again? After all, it can be done so obviously they would have done it already right?
CapnStinxy
Member
brich said:Wow, Google is a wonderful thing... :lol: So you propose tunnels? And you feel your examples prove your right-o-ringo? Well I suppose if your going to finance such a venture, I'll give it try. Hey we can put a man on the moon then we can do just about anything. Of course your only arguing that the tunnels are possible. As far as practical or economical, then you might not be right-o-rama. Being right-a-roni is what your shooting for here right?
Dunno what Google has to do with it. I've always been an AltaVista man, myself. My knowledge of lower Manhattan being landfill comes from having seen old maps and drawings when visiting the New-York Historical Society as a wee lad. The bit about the Dutch artifacts I saw on a Discovery Channel show. I've been fascinated by the WTC since I first remember seeing its lights at night from the back porch of my grandparents' house. The bit with the buildings and tunnels I can talk about 'cause I spent a fair chunk of my life in them and among them.
What any of that has to do with being right-a-ring-a-ding-ding, I dunno. Hurfurfur.
As for proposing tunnels, I've done no such thing. Look a ways upthread, and you'll see that I made the fiduciary insanity argument against monorail expansion. I've spoken as to the unlikeliness of any kind fixed-guideway transit, from the financial and other standpoints, before, both here and elsewhere. I'll even toss one more negative in here: buses, bus drivers, diesel mechanics are all commodities. Monorails, monorail pilots, and monorail mechanics are all hyper-specialties. One can procure the former on short notice from places all over the country, and a national secondary market exists for same. The latter must be developed, at great cost, in-house, and have no intrinsic value outside of WDW. I'd be willing to bet, were the monorails not so visible and held in such affection by guests, that WDW management would love to ditch them and their poisonous costs in favor of buses and boats only.
So, can you give me those examples of subway systems is florida again? After all, it can be done so obviously they would have done it already right?
Take a deep breath. I was responding to the seemingly ironclad assertions above that subways would be impossible because the high water table would flood them. Even then, I was refuting the idea that they would flood, not putting forth the idea that they'd be easy or cheap to construct, nor even that they were a good idea in this case. Going underground is always difficult and expensive. It's done when the cost or economic disruption of working on the surface outweighs the additional cost of subterranean work. There's not too many places in the world where that's the case; maybe New York, London, and Hong Kong. Not Florida, and not anywhere near Orlando, for sure. I think you know all that, though.
I've lived in Florida for over 20 years, and I've heard way too many people say, with stentorian certainty, that one cannot build anything underground in Florida because it will flood. This is despite the fact that my first job out of college (in Florida, natch) involved descending, on a monthly basis, into a basement storage area whose floor was 6 feet below sea level, and about three blocks from a river. While it was a little damp, I never had to swim through it.
I've done more than enough to make this thread beyond tedious. It's well past the time for gin. If anyone eschews a WDW vacation because it relies on bus transit, he or she can always go to Hong Kong Disneyland, which has absolutely Top Ho and Spiffing© connections to rail transit.
Tim G
Well-Known Member
The only advantage we would have is, that there would be a great ride in this...brich said:So, can you give me those examples of subway systems is florida again? After all, it can be done so obviously they would have done it already right?
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