I do and the professional part of that life centers around structural engineering. It may not be as exciting as park narration changes but I like it.Fascinating! A discussion about monorail beam construction. :snore:
You guys need to get a life.
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Monorail Spur
- Thread starter vonpluto
- Start date
Tom
Beta Return
Fascinating! A discussion about monorail beam construction. :snore:
You guys need to get a life.
I second what Yoda said. I'm a commercial/industrial Construction Manager by day, and this sort of stuff fascinates me!
If it were just a "monorail expansion" thread, I'd probably ignore it. But since we're talking about construction/fabrication, I can't get enough
montyz81
Well-Known Member
It will be allot like the Red Sox not wining the WS for 86 years!! Boston was nuts when they did.
itsmagical
Member
Having a monorail run to Hollywood Studios would be great. Now keep in mind I have no clue what I'm talking about, but how accurate is this map? If they can run a track from Magic Kingdom to Epcot and back, why can't they run one to Hollywood Studios and maybe even Animal Kingdom?
http://resort.wewillrich.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/walt-disney-world-map.jpg
There were plans to do just that, DTD had a loop as well, but the harsh reality is it is just to expensive to do it.
Tom
Beta Return
Ut oh...now you've opened the can of worms
Hopefully I can head this off before it snowballs.First, the map you cited is their "graphical" map, which is out of proportion and drawn so that you don't think there are any backstage areas, etc. It's "pretty".
But yes, EC and DHS are still pretty close to each other - close enough even for water travel. However, the cost of building monorail track is at least 10x what it was when they last built track.
I think the cost that's often tossed around is that it was $1 million a mile to put the track in, back in 1970. It was even more in 1980. Today, it would be astronomical.
Since the monorail doesn't generate any revenue, and is merely a fun method of transportation, they invest more money in buses because they move more people in the same amount of time. The return-on-investment of extending the monorail just isn't there.
JungleTrekFan
Active Member
Just a random somewhat related question. Which is cheaper to build, a monorail or peoplemover?
Also which is cheaper in the long run? A people mover with induction motors (like TTA) or one with onboard motors?
Also which is cheaper in the long run? A people mover with induction motors (like TTA) or one with onboard motors?
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
Ut oh...now you've opened the can of worms
First, the map you cited is their "graphical" map, which is out of proportion and drawn so that you don't think there are any backstage areas, etc. It's "pretty".
But yes, EC and DHS are still pretty close to each other - close enough even for water travel. However, the cost of building monorail track is at least 10x what it was when they last built track.
I think the cost that's often tossed around is that it was $1 million a mile to put the track in, back in 1970. It was even more in 1980. Today, it would be astronomical.
Since the monorail doesn't generate any revenue, and is merely a fun method of transportation, they invest more money in buses because they move more people in the same amount of time. The return-on-investment of extending the monorail just isn't there.
Not to further open this can of worms, but I found this diagram from the Progress City Blog for an expansion proposal (the white line, of course):
This would add DHS, the Boardwalk, the Yacht and Beach Club, and the Swan and Dolphin to the existing system... in other words, 3 of the 4 theme parks and almost all of the deluxe hotels would be on the monorail. And when you compare this to the distance between Epcot and the Magic Kingdom, it really isn't that much track.
I think Disney could at least pull this off nowadays, right?
It all comes back to three little words...Return on investment. When Disney can figure out a way to make or save money by expanding the monorail they will do it in a heartbeat.
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
Guess we gotta wait for the gas prices for those buses to keep rising then. :snore:
JungleTrekFan
Active Member
I agree with Master Yoda. Not to mention its already easy to walk or take a boat to any of these locations. I would rather they add another form of transport at Animal Kingdom, because its the only park with only buses and cars for transport to anywhere. There's not even a sidewalk to the Animal Kingdom Lodge.
DisneyNut7578
New Member
I'm seriously shocked they haven't built direct line from every resort to DTD then. Or created transporters. :ROFLOL:
I remember someone (Martin maybe, if I'm wrong, sorry) talking one time that the spur was supposed to be over by M:S and run over to DTD and down and over to DHS.
trr1
Well-Known Member
it could be the one to DTD
found here
[FONT=Trebuchet, Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Helv][SIZE=+1]There is Monorail right-of-way through Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort.”
[/SIZE][/FONT]It’s in writing from Disney!
When people buy Disney Vacations Club memberships, they sign a Product Understanding Checklist. It’s an honest document that summarizes the features of the program, including some potential “gotchas,” so that buyers can’t later complain, “You never told me!”
For Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort, the Product Understanding Checklist includes the following:
18. This resort is located near stores, restaurants, entertainment areas, and other public establishments with nighttime hours of operation which may result in higher noise and light levels, including but not limited to fireworks and music. In addition, easement rights for the purpose of constructing, maintaining and supporting the Monorail transportation services (which also may result in higher noise and light levels and views of the Monorail system) as part of the larger Walt Disney World transportation system (which may or may not service the Resort) have been reserved. There are no current plans to expand the Monorail system.
[FONT=Trebuchet, Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva,
Helv]Don’t let the Monorail’s higher noise and light levels bother you. [/FONT]Why is there a Monorail easement through Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort—a legal right for the Monorail to cross the property—if there are no plans to expand the Monorail system?
[FONT=Trebuchet, Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva,
Helv][SIZE=-1]Actual image from a 1977 booklet, Your Complete Guide to Walt Disney World. [/SIZE][/FONT]The easement was in place long before the property was Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort. In fact, the easement was in place before the property was called the Villas at Disney Institute. The easement goes back to the early days when there were ambitious plans for an extensive Monorail System to connect all parts of Walt Disney World, including the shopping area that was then called Disney Village and the Office Plaza planned along Interstate 4. So the easement still shows up in legal documents.
Nobody should take the easement as an indication that the Walt Disney World Monorail is coming to the Saratoga Springs Resort.
[FONT=Trebuchet, Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, Geneva,
Helv][SIZE=-1]Actual image from a 1977 booklet, Your Complete Guide to Walt Disney World. [/SIZE][/FONT]The easement was in place long before the property was Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort. In fact, the easement was in place before the property was called the Villas at Disney Institute. The easement goes back to the early days when there were ambitious plans for an extensive Monorail System to connect all parts of Walt Disney World, including the shopping area that was then called Disney Village and the Office Plaza planned along Interstate 4. So the easement still shows up in legal documents.
Nobody should take the easement as an indication that the Walt Disney World Monorail is coming to the Saratoga Springs Resort.
Interesting that the beamway in the foreground carries what appears to be a PeopleMover, and winds it's way down Hotel Plaza Blvd. and back.
The monorail beam is just above center.
Apparently a mixed system was considered at one time.
Timon
Well-Known Member
Mass transit (tracked) only works when a lot of people in point A who want to go to point B. This is why Parking to MK monorail works while TTC to EC is more of a feeder but not required. Hotel stations are just bonus along the shortest route between A & B.
Inflation is a factor in monorail costs that shouldn't be overlooked. One million dollars in 1971 is worth $5,238,655.50 in 2009 add to that better technology, higher building standards and ADA requirements all jack up costs.
But, once you build it you have it. Can you imagine building a theme park, three hotels, 2 golf courses, 250 acres of lagoon, a power plant, 7 miles of monorail, countless boats, roads and infrastructure all for $450 million dollars but today valued at $2,357,394,973.74
That's a heck of a deal.
In 1982 Disney had the "desire" to add the Epcot line. It wouldn't change the success or failure of Epcot but it represented the intangible "Disney Magic". So Disney did it because they saw value in "Magic".
Since then Disney is more concerned about the bottom line & stockholders and not the "MAGIC".
Inflation is a factor in monorail costs that shouldn't be overlooked. One million dollars in 1971 is worth $5,238,655.50 in 2009 add to that better technology, higher building standards and ADA requirements all jack up costs.
But, once you build it you have it. Can you imagine building a theme park, three hotels, 2 golf courses, 250 acres of lagoon, a power plant, 7 miles of monorail, countless boats, roads and infrastructure all for $450 million dollars but today valued at $2,357,394,973.74
That's a heck of a deal.
In 1982 Disney had the "desire" to add the Epcot line. It wouldn't change the success or failure of Epcot but it represented the intangible "Disney Magic". So Disney did it because they saw value in "Magic".
Since then Disney is more concerned about the bottom line & stockholders and not the "MAGIC".
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
So true. The Disney of the 1980s was in some of the deepest financial trouble they've ever been in (the reason they brought it Eisner), and yet they still saw fit to expand the monorail system to a park 2 miles away. I can't imagine that the monorail system was significantly cheaper to construct back then, once you remove inflation.
I also think that's the biggest issue people have with the bus system today... there's none of that "magic". Most people associate buses with gritty urban transportation, whereas monorails represent bright, gleaming modernism, and give a feeling of almost gliding through the sky. And that's a feeling which could be worth millions to the guests - and could well make the money back by marketing the hotels and the resort transportation as a whole.
The price of concrete and steel is not directly tied into inflation and their prices have risen at considerably higher rates since 1982.