News Monorail Red in motion with guests on board and doors open

Monorail_Red

Well-Known Member
Automation of the monorails had nothing to do with the incident and this is the first open door incident on record for the WDW monorails.

I really hope the automation retrofit had nothing to do with it, but I know some things that have been bypassed for the retrofit. I really hope that wasn't one of them. There have been other incidents with cab doors popping open in motion outside of stations but not a regular guest compartment (to my best knowledge) as what happened here. In fact every so often a door would not close in a station and remain in open position as we saw here. But it NEVER left the station like that. Some of the nitty gritty details are starting to get foggy for me, but I recall there being more than one sensor on the regular doors (except for cab doors and hatches which I believe only have 1). Its too much of a coincidence for what happened to actually happen by a single mechanical failure/glitch alone. Technical details aside I'm surprised they 1) had that car loaded to begin with and 2) the pilot didn't catch it at all on the way to Epcot. When I was a driver I would check my mirrors about every minute. But this could have been much worse, imagine if the car was packed tight and somebody was standing right next to the door. It will be interesting to see what comes of this but I'm glad nobody was hurt.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The group inaction/ collective response = bystander effect.

I wish we had video of the scene once the CM found this terrified group! Maybe someone will write a tell all...

door.jpg
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Again... the dog poo analogy. The danger is localized... not omnipresent.
Another bad analogy. You keep going to these single choice examples that do exactly what you accuse others of doing, ignoring the larger context. The only option in your dog poo example is moving away. Just like using the intercom in your elevator example is the only option. Using the intercom was not their only means of making contact. They were moving towards a point of contact. The better analogy would be driving near and in the direction of a hospital when your passenger starts having chest pains. There is nothing unreasonable about just going to the hospital instead of stopping to call 911.

Moving around as you suggest is not a means of preventing a fall.

I wish we had video of the scene once the CM found this terrified group! Maybe someone will write a tell all...

View attachment 255659
You’re still erroneously equating fear to wild panic. Notifying station staff, the known point of contact that was chosen, was initiated rather quickly upon entering the station.
 

TrojanUSC

Well-Known Member
You keep trying to equate this to other situations that don’t align. A stuck elevator is not en route to a station and easier means of egress. Their immediate concern was for themselves. They sat still. Even calling 911 would have prolonged their time in the vehicle.


The drivers are no longer in charge of speed. Reversing with guests has been verboten for some time now.

Under normal operating conditions it is, however this is not a normal operating condition. It would be considered an emergency under all operating circumstances.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Another bad analogy. You keep going to these single choice examples that do exactly what you accuse others of doing, ignoring the larger context. The only option in your dog poo example is moving away. Just like using the intercom in your elevator example is the only option. Using the intercom was not their only means of making contact. They were moving towards a point of contact. The better analogy would be driving near and in the direction of a hospital when your passenger starts having chest pains. There is nothing unreasonable about just going to the hospital instead of stopping to call 911.

Except you don't know if your car will make it... you don't know if your car is hurting other people... your car is also full of people that could have a different opinion of the best solution... yet the claim is everyone was frozen in fear because of the severity of the situation yet SIMULTANEOUSLY NO ONE, all in unison, DO ANYTHING about it... to mitigate any risk. DOES NOT ADD UP.

The more people that are in the cabin... the more far fetched this telling of the story gets. Everyone acts the same? No one has a thought that differs from another person? Everyone is equally ignorant of emergency features... Everyone is frozen in position... yet there is a panel RIGHT BEHIND the people sitting on the bench next to you...

The "they were all terrified" yet "all frozen", "all equally ignorant of emergency features" and "all in unison determined the same best course of action" doesn't pass any kind of sniff test.

More likely... "oh damn... look at that... Don't play with that.. Let me get my camera out so no one doubts me!! <arrive at station> Hey dude.. your train is BROKE... <posts on instagram> <hours later phone rings> 'Hello, yes thats my video... OH MY IT WAS TERRIFYING'
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Except you don't know if your car will make it... you don't know if your car is hurting other people... your car is also full of people that could have a different opinion of the best solution... yet the claim is everyone was frozen in fear because of the severity of the situation yet SIMULTANEOUSLY NO ONE, all in unison, DO ANYTHING about it... to mitigate any risk. DOES NOT ADD UP.

The more people that are in the cabin... the more far fetched this telling of the story gets. Everyone acts the same? No one has a thought that differs from another person? Everyone is equally ignorant of emergency features... Everyone is frozen in position... yet there is a panel RIGHT BEHIND the people sitting on the bench next to you...

The "they were all terrified" yet "all frozen", "all equally ignorant of emergency features" and "all in unison determined the same best course of action" doesn't pass any kind of sniff test.
Yes! This is exactly what happens in most emergency situations where groups of people are involved.
Did you ever notice in the headlines (like the NYC apt. fire) that civil heroes are usually someone with a military background or some such? It's because they have had training to override the stress response and behave as the emergency circumstance warrants.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Yes! This is exactly what happens in most emergency situations where groups of people are involved.

Minus the 'unilateral agreement'... and lazyboy's assertion they made the most logical, efficient choice under duress. And minus the lady being bored out of her mind look... etc etc etc

It makes far more sense to say "they just didn't see it as a huge immediate risk.."
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Minus the 'unilateral agreement'... and lazyboy's assertion they made the most logical, efficient choice under duress. And minus the lady being bored out of her mind look... etc etc etc

It makes far more sense to say "they just didn't see it as a huge immediate risk.."
Yes, it depends on the severity of the emergency.
So - what was the immediate risk? Life-threatening? Immediate injury? No, probably not.
But I still assert that they behaved normally under the circumstances, based on what is known in emergency management literature.
ETA: I know it's counter-intuitive.
 
Last edited:

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Have no idea how a half open door on a monorail is anything like a burning building with people in it?

Stop with all the hero worship about firemen and cops, it's their job, they get paid to do it. Many get a thrill out of it.
I was just using that as an example, because when one person goes against the group behavior dynamic and does act - it's because they have some kind of training. It doesn't have to be military or first responder, but it is often the case.

ETA: Only about 10-20% of the population has a natural response of staying calm and thinking it through in an emergency scenario.
A cohort that is seemingly over-represented on these boards. ;)
 
Last edited:

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Minus the 'unilateral agreement'... and lazyboy's assertion they made the most logical, efficient choice under duress. And minus the lady being bored out of her mind look... etc etc etc

It makes far more sense to say "they just didn't see it as a huge immediate risk.."
I have never asserted that it was the most logical, just that it is reasonable because they had as known point of contact and a known point of egress. You are also ignoring that it was not a spontaneous and simultaneous decision. As reported, it was the decision of a few that the group followed. More panic may well have instigated a further desire to make contact, but a course of action was presented and accepted.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
I would think it's funny and take a picture. My next thought would be, "This GD thing better not stop and trap me up here for 2 hours while they get a firetruck here."

Selfishly and irrationally that would probably be my thought process if the cabin was not full: If we use the phone, they will stop and we will be stuck up here for hours. If we stick it out, I will likely get to my FEA fast pass.

Again, insane. But I’d still be weighing those options.
 

Rob562

Well-Known Member
So as I'm reading though this thread, it seems like some people have decided that one can *only* find fault with Disney *or* the guests in the car for their action/inaction. Can't someone find something that was done wrong by both? They're not mutually exclusive.

First and foremost, the door opening is a MAJOR issue and is thoroughly the fault of Disney, whether that be (potentially) from maintenance cuts, multiple faulty sensors, the actions of the maintenance workers who worked on the door before it left the station and anything they did/didn't do, operating procedures that were/weren't followed, etc. (I have zero knowledge about the actual cause, this is all pure speculation, but I'm sure the complete cause will come out after inspections by Disney and/or the NTSB)

The doors have sensors. If a train is in motion and a door sensor trips, even for just a moment, the train is supposed to E-stop. The pilot then can assess the situation and act accordingly. I was on a train where someone (who was at the other end of my car) leaned against the door hard enough that it tripped the sensor. The train stopped, the pilot got on the intercom to tell the person to stop leaning on the door. It took three announcements for the guy to realize they were talking to him. (The third announcement being something like "This train cannot move until you get off the door. Please move away from it now.")

Once the train was in e-stop, the pilot would've been able to assess and go from there. A mirror check should've shown the wide-open door. Even if they didn't see that, an open door would've stayed in alarm after announcements. Perhaps the pilot would've asked over the intercom for "someone in car 2 please pick up the emergency phone at either end of the car"

In emergency mode, they could've proceeded in override to the next station at a slower speed. (Those trains jostle back and forth a bit on the curves between World Drive and Epcot) Since the door opened not long after leaving the TTC, they may have been able to coordinate a reversal back into TTC.

Of course none of that happened. That train should have already been braking before the door had fully hinged open. That's a major issue, and that's entirely on Disney. It's pure luck that this happened when the car wasn't packed full.

So now let's move to the passengers in the cabin and how they reacted after the door opened.
To those who are bashing the videographer for taking the video: don't. I agree with those who say that a clear video of this was the best way to get it across the Disney, the NTSB and the public. People are talking about it, which is a very good thing.

The guest who kept people calm and reminded everyone that no one was in immediate danger was also good thinking.

But I also agree that *someone* in the cabin should have used the intercom to call the pilot right away. Let's pretend that the train wasn't on the Epcot beam, but rather on one of the MK beams and the door popped open as the train was approaching the Contemporary. I don't know for certain but I'm not entirely sure that an open door would make it through the openings in the Contemporary. So now you possibly have a heavy monorail door getting sheared off by the wall, getting jammed in something, smashing windows, causing building structural damage, falling debris on Guests below, etc etc etc.
But perhaps those Guests inside were just thinking "Well, there's a station coming up, we'll tell them then...."

Whatever happened to "If you see something, say something"? There's something out-of-the-ordinary happening, report it to someone higher up than you, which in this instance is the pilot of the train you are on.

-Rob
 
Last edited:

AEfx

Well-Known Member
The "they were all terrified" yet "all frozen", "all equally ignorant of emergency features" and "all in unison determined the same best course of action" doesn't pass any kind of sniff test.

I'm not getting into the debate about what happened here (it's silly, IMO - and really - it just proves that we will argue about anything here, LOL), but FWIW, the first thing they teach you in any type of emergency training (even basic CPR courses) is that what you described is exactly what many people generally do in emergency situations. That's why if you are attending to a victim, you don't say "SOMEONE call 911!", you point to someone in particular, make eye contact, and say "YOU - call 911". It is because if you don't, chances are people will just assume someone else did it.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Is stopping the train and likely initiating a ladder rescue really safer than exiting via platform?

That would be on my mind. I'm the type of person who is proactive and intervenes in situations like this, but I think my thought process would go:

Woah! Door open! Dangerous! <looks around> But not that bad. Kinda neat.
I guess we need to alert the driver. Looks for phone. Aha! Oh wait...
If I call this in, we stop on the beam. Late to MK. Fire truck ladder. More delays. Is this really that bad?
Checks on passengers. Addresses parents, "Are you OK holding onto your children?" "We're fine, but this is crazy, right?"
Pretend I don't know about the phone. "We'll be alright if we stay away from the door. No one's getting sucked out!" <laugh>
Stare out the door. Think about what to say to CMs at the station.
Hey, what if the door crashes into the station? Maybe I need to call and save the day!
<checks to see if door is simply open or broken and leaning away from the car> Ah, just open. No worries.


Now if this was a full car and people couldn't stand away from the door, or, if there were free roaming children... Or if the door was swinging around or sticking out...
I'd call it in right away.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
I work in rail industry in the UK and im amazed at how this incident has been handled. Here something like this would require a goverment inpector to investigate and make a report. If the fault was due to corporate negligence from poor maintenance etc then company managers could then face legal charges
 

DisneyInsider101

Active Member
I work in rail industry in the UK and im amazed at how this incident has been handled. Here something like this would require a goverment inpector to investigate and make a report. If the fault was due to corporate negligence from poor maintenance etc then company managers could then face legal charges
Even the New york city subway is more safer than the monorails... Well atleast the subway doors don't open while it's moving...
 
Last edited:

King Panda 77

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
Don't be a smarta$s
Well who is the one claiming the New York subway is safer than the monorails at WDW ?
Even a quick google search proves you wrong and i don't even have other members powers of Google Fu.
How many people died on the subway compared to the monorails last year ?
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom