Monorail News

[tomdumont]

Monorail Expansion knowlege from former CM

I worked at WDW in 2003 for the college program. The one thing that I heard time and time again was that somewhere near MGM there is a place for a monorail station. I even heard that they had started to install the foundations for the rail. When they were designing MGM they initially were planning to connect it to the monorail system.

For cost I think it was estimated at 1million/mile. The trains are expensive too. Another thing you would need to add to the cost that everyone is kinda overseeing is where would they park the extra trains? It wouldn't be realistic to expand the one parking area/shop they have, there isn't enough room.

While reading this thread I read about a North and South TTC. The plan that I heard was that the current TTC would be expanded and they would eliminate the parking lots for all the other parks and everyone would park around the current TTC. But could you imagine moving the crowds around!? The current capacities of the express monorail to MK can't handle the amount of people. They have to use a ferrys in conjunction with the Monorail.

It was also stated that Eisner doesn't believe in the monorail because:
1)Expensive (Imagine that) :brick:
2)Dangerous

Have you ever been to Islands of Adventure? Notice that they have a monorail in Dr. Seuse(sp?!) land or whatever? Well I wonder if Disney isn't expanding because of current laws. There is really no safe way to evacuate a monorail if there were ever an emergency. Thats why IOAs isnt in service.

You guys are funny to read though. Lighten up its all speculation. The monorail is a fun topic thats why these people that "hate" the threads are still reading them. Everyone wants an expansion whether they will admit it or not.

-MIKE
sorry 'bout the long thread :hammer:

 

[marni1971]

Nice first post. Welcome!:wave:

 

[Mecha Figment]

yes i do remember that monarail in seuse island. we went when the park first opened and it had a comming soon sign at the entrance. now the doors are shut no markings and no sign of an attraction except for the track.

Did it ever open or was it abandoned?

 

[uklad79]

Have you ever been to Islands of Adventure? Notice that they have a monorail in Dr. Seuse(sp?!) land or whatever? Well I wonder if Disney isn't expanding because of current laws. There is really no safe way to evacuate a monorail if there were ever an emergency. Thats why IOAs isnt in service.

Welcome to the boards. This section is not correct. The ride (its not a monorail) will open next year. Work is going on at the moment to finish it off. The rumor is the company that started to build it went bust and it was never finished. The work done on it was poor and some parts of teh track are being replaced. Anyone in the Orlando area can go down and see the work being done in full view.

 

[unkadug]

FYI

Sylvester McMonkey McBean's Very Unusual Driving

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=65151


post 900

 

[drnilescrane]

Re evacuation - The solution is walkways inbetween the beamways. All they would have to be is something opauqe that can handle weight and doesn't block the light (Plexiglass?), and spaced with enougth clearance from trains. Then pople can use an emergency release on the doors and walk to safety in the most dire curcumstance (Monorail Silver Mark IV) Having cuircuit breakers along the line would help too.

You guys should hold a WDWMagic Transportation Expansion Competition - Design a masterplan for WDW Transport in the Future.

 

[tomdumont]

Part of the reason why the attraction wasn't in workable condition was because of the failure to safely evacuate. Thus my comment and thoughts on the ride is suess land.

Incorrect. People have ridden the ride and it technically could operate. It was however, extremely unreliable (the vehicles can't make it up the hills in even the slightst rain) and fairly unsafe (nowhere to evac.)

It did not open to the general public, but people have ridden it. It's not like it was some coaster that once built took off the heads of all the dummies, so designers, park folks, etc, have ridden it.

Furthermore, the ride was technically complete. It suffers from a serious design flaw in the evacuation and hill climbing. Shortly AFTER the park opened, several show elements were removed from around the track, particularly above the stores, but it was at one point complete. As designed though, it never really "worked."

 

[DisneyWales]

Part of the reason why the attraction wasn't in workable condition was because of the failure to safely evacuate. Thus my comment and thoughts on the ride is suess land.

From what ive can gather else where this is being reworked, either to make rideable again, or as an attraction point, i.e. adding characters in cars and tracks to give some sort of motion to Seus Landing.

 

[NautOneFL]

Enough with the costs and stuff!

I will lay this info at your feet -

Florida is still pursuing a high speed rail at a cost of $6.5B for the connection between Orlando and Tampa. ($6.5B/ 85 miles between Orlando and Tampa - $7.7M per mile including infastructure, equipment, track, and real estate/ right-of-way purchases)

Disney owns the land, has a partial infastructure in place. Major cost implications would be the addition to the power grid, infastructure (tracks) and stations. I think $2M to $3M a mile is about avg. Figuring that AK is about 10 miles from Epcot (15 for MK) then the cost is about $30M for the system including a stations in between for Epcot, MGM. A resort loop qould run about $7M-10M for the Epcot resorts and they could position the monorail station strategically to service both the resort and the lodge at AK. The costliest part is connecting DD to the lines. My best guess is that it will run into the $50M to $60M to put the entire part on a monorail line (minus the 5th Gate of course)

Now figure a bus costs about $200k x a fleet of 50 = $10m
+ Fuel (50 gals./ day * $2.50 (wholesale price of Diesel) x 50 busses x 365 days = approx $2.3M./ year in fuel x 10 years (lifetime of a bus) = $23M
+ Maintenance (figure $300k for a lifetime of oil changes, engines, parts, labor, etc.)x 50 = $15M
+ Bus drivers ($6.50/ hour x 20 hours/day(open to close of PI) x 50 busses x
365 days/ year * 10 years = $24M

Total Bus Ops for 10 years = $72M

Monorail Construction - $60M + Maint, personnel, etc. = $75M +/-

Comes out in the wash to me, but there are other factors probably, insurance, liability, construction times, etc. Maybe Disney wants to save a few million over 10 years? To me it would be worth it, especially if Disney goes to a Green Enegy plant (incinerate thier own garbage).

Just my two cents-

-J
10 years of bus ops

 

[peter11435]

I will lay this info at your feet -

Florida is still pursuing a high speed rail at a cost of $6.5B for the connection between Orlando and Tampa. ($6.5B/ 85 miles between Orlando and Tampa - $7.7M per mile including infastructure, equipment, track, and real estate/ right-of-way purchases)

Disney owns the land, has a partial infastructure in place. Major cost implications would be the addition to the power grid, infastructure (tracks) and stations. I think $2M to $3M a mile is about avg. Figuring that AK is about 10 miles from Epcot (15 for MK) then the cost is about $30M for the system including a stations in between for Epcot, MGM. A resort loop qould run about $7M-10M for the Epcot resorts and they could position the monorail station strategically to service both the resort and the lodge at AK. The costliest part is connecting DD to the lines. My best guess is that it will run into the $50M to $60M to put the entire part on a monorail line (minus the 5th Gate of course)

Now figure a bus costs about $200k x a fleet of 50 = $10m
+ Fuel (50 gals./ day * $2.50 (wholesale price of Diesel) x 50 busses x 365 days = approx $2.3M./ year in fuel x 10 years (lifetime of a bus) = $23M
+ Maintenance (figure $300k for a lifetime of oil changes, engines, parts, labor, etc.)x 50 = $15M
+ Bus drivers ($6.50/ hour x 20 hours/day(open to close of PI) x 50 busses x
365 days/ year * 10 years = $24M

Total Bus Ops for 10 years = $72M

Monorail Construction - $60M + Maint, personnel, etc. = $75M +/-

Comes out in the wash to me, but there are other factors probably, insurance, liability, construction times, etc. Maybe Disney wants to save a few million over 10 years? To me it would be worth it, especially if Disney goes to a Green Enegy plant (incinerate thier own garbage).

Just my two cents-

-J
10 years of bus ops

I see only two flaws with your information. First Disney operates far more than 50 buses. Thus the cost of operating the bus system for 10 years is much higher than you say. On the other side however, Monorail expansion would cost far more than 2 to 3 million as you say. You can't compare the costs of monorail to the Florida high-speed rail at all. First the high-speed rail is not elevated like a monorail thus does not require the construction of stable foundations and strong high-density concrete beams. Additionally the Florida high-speed rail would utilize some existing track that would only need slight modifications. Monorails and Florida's high-speed rail are two very different things. Not to mention the fact that if built you can bet that Florida’s high-speed rail would have gone way over budget.

 

[NautOneFL]

I see only two flaws with your information. First Disney operates far more than 50 buses. Thus the cost of operating the bus system for 10 years is much higher than you say. On the other side however, Monorail expansion would cost far more than 2 to 3 million as you say. You can't compare the costs of monorail to the Florida high-speed rail at all. First the high-speed rail is not elevated like a monorail thus does not require the construction of stable foundations and strong high-density concrete beams. Additionally the Florida high-speed rail would utilize some existing track that would only need slight modifications. Monorails and Florida's high-speed rail are two very different things. Not to mention the fact that if built you can bet that Florida’s high-speed rail would have gone way over budget.

The numbers that I was using was based on using a dedicated track elevated above the interstates in the medians. Trust me on this, I was at the meetings.

I know disney runs more than 50 buses - just using round numbers as a "for instance."

This is just food for thought - no need to bring any politics to this forum. You want to gripe about the High Speed Rail Initiative, talk to your local politician.

-J

 

[marni1971]

High speed rail in Florida... I have an advert from 1993 advertising it open before the year 2000

 

[Tim G]

High speed rail in Florida... I have an advert from 1993 advertising it open before the year 2000

That's right....

But there was noone who would come up with the money...

 

[peter11435]

The numbers that I was using was based on using a dedicated track elevated above the interstates in the medians. Trust me on this, I was at the meetings.

That may be true. However I stand by my statement (with certainty) that monorail expansion would cost far more than 2 or 3 million per mile.

This is just food for thought - no need to bring any politics to this forum. You want to gripe about the High Speed Rail Initiative, talk to your local politician.

-J

Where did I bring up politics? I think you need to reread my post. I was not attempting to gripe about the High Speed Rail. I was only trying to show that you couldn’t use their estimated costs to refer to WDW monorail expansion.

 

[drnilescrane]

The thing is Disney fails to see things in the long term - Monorail would produce greater savings over the long term, but with a huge upfront cost. The savings are in Staff, Fue and Lifetimel. 1 train can hold about 4 busloads, and uses electricity with is cheaper than Fuel. A monorail train with good matinence lasts longer than a bus. Plus they can start charging more at the Deluxe resorts for the Monorail.

 

[peter11435]

The thing is Disney fails to see things in the long term - Monorail would produce greater savings over the long term, but with a huge upfront cost. The savings are in Staff, Fue and Lifetimel. 1 train can hold about 4 busloads, and uses electricity with is cheaper than Fuel. A monorail train with good matinence lasts longer than a bus. Plus they can start charging more at the Deluxe resorts for the Monorail.

Disney thinks about the long term more than most companies. To think otherwise is absurd. Also anyway you look at it monorails are not cheaper than buses. Monorails are not cheap to maintain. It costs as much to maintain the 12 monorails as it does the nearly 300 buses. Not to mention with monorail you have to maintain and inspect the track. Sure this cost is there with the roads as well but even if they build an extensive monorail system they will still need to maintain the roads. Not to mention that they will need to maintain a fleet (maybe a smaller fleet) of buses in the event that the monorail goes down (something that happens often). As for running off electricity, remember it takes fuel to create electricity. And monorails require a ton of electricity. You say a monorail train with good maintenance lasts longer than a bus. I ask how can you say that. Buses if maintained well will last just as long as a monorail. Disney has buses that are nearly 25 years old, yet the original WDW monorails were replaced at less than 20. All of this doesn’t even mention the fact that buses are more versatile and efficient than monorails. While I love the monorail and would love to see it expanded I know that it is simply not possible for a ton of reasons.

 

[imagineer boy]

AAAAUUUUUUUGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HATE MONORAIL THREADS!!!! :brick: :brick: :brick:

Can we please let this thread die?

 

[tomdumont]

well that was positive and relevant

 

[DisneyWales]

Monorail

The main reason i think it would be good for Disney to introduce a monorail system connecting at least just the parks (im talking blue sky here, screw costs, space etc), is because i feel it will help with park hopping. People may be more willing to go to Animal Kingdom.

At the moment Animal Kingdom is isolated so to go there you have to make it an event so to say, where as at the MK if its busy or you fancy a change you can hop of the Monorail.

Generally we always park at Epcot, that way we can Monorail to MK with out the fun of the TTC, or to change to MGM is a relatively simple task. However Animal Kingdom is a park we only go to when we put it aside, we never just go to take a look like we do with the others.

 

[celticdog]

Remember the first post? The rumor was that Disney was going to do a study to determin the possibility of a monorail expansion. Disney may being doing a study, we can then theorize about the study. It doesn't have to be limited to just monorails. A great many communities are looking at using "light rail" for transportation needs. It's inexpensive, it's easy to maintain, it tends to be low speed, (i.e not a bullet train), it can be elevated or on-grade and it doesn't require alot of space.

Just because Disney may be doing a feasibility study, doesn't mean that the monorail is destine for expansion.

I agree many other on these boards. Construction costs are way too high for a monorail system expansion.