Monorail Expansion

[G00fyDad]

Why does everyone always default to Apple? Yes. They came up with Smartphones, but other companies have done it better since. If you are going to see who could partner with Disney for a transit system, go with Ultra Global PRT (http://www.ultraglobalprt.com/). Leave Apple where they are.

 

[IMFearless]

My reason for saying Apple is that the two companies have a good working relationship already and it would be a mutually beneficial relationship for both companies.

In lots of ways the two companies are similar to each other, but I agree that another company could no doubt do a better job, i just went with the one everyone knows.

 

[G00fyDad]

Ultra Global PRT makes the pods and infrastructure that would allow guests to go to the "terminal" at each location, get in, choose their destination, push "go", and the doors would close and off they go to their destination. The biggest problem would be the infrastructure. It would need to be elevated in too many spots causing the price to rise to near that of a full monorail system.

 

[IMFearless]

Ultra Global PRT makes the pods and infrastructure that would allow guests to go to the "terminal" at each location, get in, choose their destination, push "go", and the doors would close and off they go to their destination. The biggest problem would be the infrastructure. It would need to be elevated in too many spots causing the price to rise to near that of a full monorail system.

I really think big infrastructure is not going to get the go ahead however much guests would like it. Let's be honest about Disney these days, they are not being run the way they were in 1960's and 1970's.

I think a gradual move to driverless vehicles will bring the same benefits of a Pod system with none of the costs or disadvantages. With Uber operating on property Disney is potentially loosing revenue, a resort wide solution would stop guests resorting to Uber. Once people are familiar with Uber what's to stop people heading to Walmart, or the outlets etc. Far better to fill the role of provider and organiser of all guest needs. Walt did not buy 47 square miles to make it convenient for guests to nip off site.

The worse the transport system becomes, the more guests will find alternatives and once people's habits change it is very difficult to get them to switch back, particularly if it is less convenient. Disney should make the transport network something guests get excited by and want to use, they should do everything they can to get as many guests using it as their preferred choice of transport.

 

[IMFearless]

The constant focus on return on investment is at fault.

Using that mentality the monorails add nothing to the bottom line, but they are a huge reason guests love the resort as a whole.

Disney need to see the bigger picture with transport, build in random entertainment on buses, imagine a random character just happening to get onboard a bus now and again and coming around to meet the guests on their way to Magic Kingdom.

Just make the transport awesome.

Randomly pre-select one bus to each park everyday to get a special red carpet welcome to the park, give those on board an extra Fastpass and a special button, and an extra special welcome ceremony upon their arrival.

Those inexpensive things would massively impress the guests who experienced it, and would generate excitement for those using the transport system.

 

[danlb_2000]

Ultra Global PRT makes the pods and infrastructure that would allow guests to go to the "terminal" at each location, get in, choose their destination, push "go", and the doors would close and off they go to their destination. The biggest problem would be the infrastructure. It would need to be elevated in too many spots causing the price to rise to near that of a full monorail system.

But does a system like that make sense at a place like WDW? Since there are a small number of people in each vehicle you end up with a very low density vehicle which would consume a lot of extra space on the road or track. Low density makes sense when there are a lot of potential destinations, but at WDW you need to move a lot of people to a small number of destinations.

 

[G00fyDad]

But does a system like that make sense at a place like WDW? Since there are a small number of people in each vehicle you end up with a very low density vehicle which would consume a lot of extra space on the road or track. Low density makes sense when there are a lot of potential destinations, but at WDW you need to move a lot of people to a small number of destinations.

No sense at all really. But it is the next best option to what they currently have, imo. Personally I would just prefer that they tie all of the parks and DS together with a monorail but that has its own set of problems aside from the money needed.

 

[IMFearless]

Because the main journeys are park to hotel and vice versa a monorail from one park to another would be fine for park hopping, but probably unnecessary as most guests are going from parks back to hotels.

A monorail from one park to another would still require a transfer if you were going to a hotel, that's the point at which a direct bus (or other transport) starts to become faster.

I think technology is advancing so fast that this will cease to be a problem in 5-10 years. Look at the advancement we have seen in the last 10 years.

Expensive transport infrastructure does not look attractive when changing lightbulbs on Main Street is seen as an inconvenience by the company.

 

[s8film40]

I have said in other monorail threads that I think that the ULTra like they have at Heathrow airport and Amritsar would work nice.
As a basic guide, a complete Ultra pod system, including guideway, stations, vehicles and control systems will cost approximately between $7-$15 million US dollars per km to construct, however individual project costs can vary considerably depending on factors relating to the surrounding environmental setting, integration requirements and the expected system usage.

Ultra Global PRT makes the pods and infrastructure that would allow guests to go to the "terminal" at each location, get in, choose their destination, push "go", and the doors would close and off they go to their destination. The biggest problem would be the infrastructure. It would need to be elevated in too many spots causing the price to rise to near that of a full monorail system.

PRT is essentially a dead and outdated technology. With the work being done in automobile automation by many different companies the idea of building a dedicated elevated roadway just for these inferior automated vehicles is just ridiculous. Not to mention in a resort setting like WDW the low throughput of these things would make them almost completely unusable.

 

[G00fyDad]

PRT is essentially a dead and outdated technology. With the work being done in automobile automation by many different companies the idea of building a dedicated elevated roadway just for these inferior automated vehicles is just ridiculous. Not to mention in a resort setting like WDW the low throughput of these things would make them almost completely unusable.

And automated vehicles on the roadways in Disney World would be worse than useless. That would be downright dangerous when not all would be driverless.

 

[s8film40]

And automated vehicles on the roadways in Disney World would be worse than useless. That would be downright dangerous when not all would be driverless.

You obviously don't pay much attention to up and coming technology. Like it or not automated vehicles will be the norm everywhere in a few years. Honestly I would trust an automated vehicle more than a lost and confused tourist any day.

 

[s8film40]

If you figure the average bus handles 70 people, that means you eliminate 5 buses for every monorail train. What's the other tradeoff? Simple, the monorails are electric powered and they eliminate the need for diesel burning buses. You also reduce the need for 5 drivers.

Labor is actually the biggest expense. If you do the math even conservatively Disney spends more than $45 million a year on bus drivers.

 

[G00fyDad]

You obviously don't pay much attention to up and coming technology. Like it or not automated vehicles will be the norm everywhere in a few years. Honestly I would trust an automated vehicle more than a lost and confused tourist any day.

First, I do pay attention to up-and-coming technology. I know exactly what automated vehicles you're talking about. Second, it's the idiots driving cars that I don't trust. As long as they're sharing the road with an automatic car you're going to have accidents all over the place. A person driving a car can react and avoid a collision, sometimes. A driverless car will keep driving from point A to point B regardless of what's getting ready to hit it. The technology hasn't come along that fast yet to make the car that artificially intelligence.

 

[s8film40]

First, I do pay attention to up-and-coming technology. I know exactly what automated vehicles you're talking about. Second, it's the idiots driving cars that I don't trust. As long as they're sharing the road with an automatic car you're going to have accidents all over the place. A person driving a car can react and avoid a collision, sometimes. A driverless car will keep driving from point A to point B regardless of what's getting ready to hit it. The technology hasn't come along that fast yet to make the car that artificially intelligence.

Automobile automation isn't about just programming a car to go from point A to B. They react to the things around them, they slow down in traffic, they avoid obstacles. A computer can react far faster than a human. There's actually discussion going on now on the ethics of giving the car the choice in doing something that would potentially kill the occupants of the vehicle to save other or more lives. They are quickly reaching a point where rather than a human making split second decisions they can make well thought out decisions. It's just a matter of perfecting that programming. Google has their cars driving autonomously out on public roads and Tesla has their semi automatic cruise control working across the country. Many of these tests have very good track records and will likely see exponential improvements over the next few years. It's easy to point at new technology and say I don't trust it but it's coming wether you like it or not. Personally I see so many incredibly stupid things every day that at this point I think implementing it on a large scale even now at this early stage would save more lives than are lost every day in accidents.

 

[G00fyDad]

Automobile automation isn't about just programming a car to go from point A to B. They react to the things around them, they slow down in traffic, they avoid obstacles. A computer can react far faster than a human. There's actually discussion going on now on the ethics of giving the car the choice in doing something that would potentially kill the occupants of the vehicle to save other or more lives. They are quickly reaching a point where rather than a human making split second decisions they can make well thought out decisions. It's just a matter of perfecting that programming. Google has their cars driving autonomously out on public roads and Tesla has their semi automatic cruise control working across the country. Many of these tests have very good track records and will likely see exponential improvements over the next few years. It's easy to point at new technology and say I don't trust it but it's coming wether you like it or not. Personally I see so many incredibly stupid things every day that at this point I think implementing it on a large scale even now at this early stage would save more lives than are lost every day in accidents.

I really don't think you and I are going to see eye to eye on this. Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Foltzy]

I've been following this thread for a while and I thought I'd add my two cents

The monorails were mainly stemming from Walt. Walt wanted the monorails as the transportation of the future, but now as technology has surpassed monorails with self-driving, low-emission cars only a few years away. The monorails, no matter how much I love them, are kind of a lost cause in my eyes. I feel like the only thing keeping them going is the cost that it would take to dismantle the entire system, including remodeling the Contemporary to fill the empty space.
On the money topic, face it, Disney is a company. The high-ups who would be making this decision would see the lost money in building this system and not want to do it. For them, the buses work fine. Add to the fact that self-driving cars aren't that far away, Disney may be implementing a new self-driving transportation system soon, which would drastically reduce costs, a newly constructed monorail system would be a huge waist of profits that could be used for something that would earn more money. Also. even if the operating costs are cheaper, it would be years and years and years before the become even, and by then, who knows what type of technology we'd have.

In all reality, and no matter how much I try and convince myself otherwise, Disney is a company focused on making money. The people who would be making this decision are focused on that aspect. Yes, we'd all be happy with a resort wide monorail, but the high-ups see it as the bus system works for these people, they'll still give us money even if we keep it that way. Also, they don't see profit in the new system, nobody would go to Disney just because they had the new monorails. Also, even though people might make reservations at other resorts, you still got to eat, and you'll still be paying Disney for food. Disney wants the people in with the cash, and doesn't really care what else happens. A perfect example is ticket prices. Disney will raise them because people will still come. Some people might not be happy, but they'll still fill up and get more money. MDE had high costs, but they'll be able to use that for years, and the amount of increased revenue they can get from that is very high.

I would love a resort-wide monorail system more than many, but it's Disney's decision. They see minimal profit gain and an extremely high cost. I hate to say it, but Disney's a company, and their #1 concern is gaining profit.

 

[danlb_2000]

You obviously don't pay much attention to up and coming technology. Like it or not automated vehicles will be the norm everywhere in a few years. Honestly I would trust an automated vehicle more than a lost and confused tourist any day.

I think we are long way from automated vehicles being "the norm" and not because of technology, but because of people's fear (warranted or not) or technology. What's going to be very interesting to watch it the outcome of the first lawsuits filed when someone is injured or killed in an automated vehicle.

 

[s8film40]

I think we are long way from automated vehicles being "the norm" and not because of technology, but because of people's fear (warranted or not) or technology. What's going to be very interesting to watch it the outcome of the first lawsuits filed when someone is injured or killed in an automated vehicle.

If you see a Tesla on the freeway odds are you've already seen an automated car in normal daily operation. The legal aspect will definitely be interesting. With big companies to go after rather than individual human drivers the potential for lawyers to get more money out of any situations that arrive is definitely there.

There were people who said cell phones were a neat idea but why would anyone want to carry a phone around with them all day, there's no difference here. Technology happens, those who think the fear of new technology will keep it from becoming mainstream just don't know their history too well.

Getting back to the topic at hand. In a short time the monorails will all be automated (we'll see how many people are afraid of them). The possibility of adding PRT would easily be at least 5 years off. By the time some horribly inefficient PRT system could be completed we would be five years ahead giving not only the autonomous automobile technology quite a bit of time to progress but the public would have plenty of time to overcome their fears as well. This would of course leave everyone looking up at the PRT system wondering "what was disney thinking?"

 

[danlb_2000]

If you see a Tesla on the freeway odds are you've already seen an automated car in normal daily operation. The legal aspect will definitely be interesting. With big companies to go after rather than individual human drivers the potential for lawyers to get more money out of any situations that arrive is definitely there.

There were people who said cell phones were a neat idea but why would anyone want to carry a phone around with them all day, there's no difference here. Technology happens, those who think the fear of new technology will keep it from becoming mainstream just don't know their history too well.

Getting back to the topic at hand. In a short time the monorails will all be automated (we'll see how many people are afraid of them). The possibility of adding PRT would easily be at least 5 years off. By the time some horribly inefficient PRT system could be completed we would be five years ahead giving not only the autonomous automobile technology quite a bit of time to progress but the public would have plenty of time to overcome their fears as well. This would of course leave everyone looking up at the PRT system wondering "what was disney thinking?"

I assumed by norm you meant a pervasive norm, not just a few cars being tested. There is a big difference between a cell phone and a car, you are not trusting your safety to a phone, you are to a car. I am not saying that I personally have an problem with autonomous cars but there are going to be a lot of people who do.

 

[s8film40]

I assumed by norm you meant a pervasive norm, not just a few cars being tested. There is a big difference between a cell phone and a car, you are not trusting your safety to a phone, you are to a car. I am not saying that I personally have an problem with autonomous cars but there are going to be a lot of people who do.

Well seeing as how we are well into the "few cars being tested" if not already past that I think five years from now it will be far more common. Five years is a long time as far as technology progressing.

Yes the safety factor does differentiate autonomous vehicles and cell phones, but is that really a factor? Autonomous cars already at this early stage have a better track record than human drivers. If safety is truly a factor and not merely public fear of the unknown than the need to get this technology out sooner is abundantly clear.