Monorail Expansion?

[larryb241]

I was at WDW in 2001 and saw actual, real blueprints for master planning. The exansion for the monorail route was all laid out, including potential areas for stations. HOWEVER, when I inquired about the status, they said that the project was on indefinite hold due to cost projections and need for other areas of improvement.
This plan was in a room at the old Disney Institute when I went on an architecture tour. Other drawings were in the room, but the master plan was most fascinating to me. No, I don't remember exacts, but the expansion did go east/west to MGM and Animal Kingdom. As of right now, the cost of steel and concrete, as well as labor right now, is INCREDIBLY cost prohibitive. But it's nice to know they have it in the back of their minds.

 

[peter11435]

No, state and federal guidelines would trump local codes of RCID. Environmental impact is much more stringent now than it was when the 'master-plan' was put together.

I have to agree with Marni on this one. If you read "Married to the Mouse" much of this is explained. The state has very little control of this stuff in the RCID. A few years ago the entire state of Florida adopted a universal building code, except for RCID which was exempt from these in favor of their own EPCOT building codes. Although to be honest RCID/Disney's EPCOT building codes are much stricter than the current Florida building codes. For years Disney didn't even have to pay impact fees. Now they do but not because they have to but rather they agreed to avoid the bad PR and conflicts that would have resulted

 

[cloudboy]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the post, but if Disney or any municipality is NOT bulding something because of information posted here then I have sadly underestimated the power of WDWMAGIC.

You are just one of many. In fact, yes, there are a lot of people who are basing their opinions of monorails upon rumors that are bandied about regarding WDW's rumored expansion - it is one of the larger rumors out there. And this is perpetuated by people - in some cases unintentioanlly, in other cases by people who are specifically against them. And it does impact other projects - several cities have rulled them out right at the outset because they are rumored to cost so much or to be so complicated, even when they are not.

 

[PintoColvig]

FYI: I just finished watching the episode of Modern Marvels on the History Channel that focused on WDW. They stated that the monorail system cost $1 million per mile for the 14 miles of track. And that's in 1970's dollars.

Bonus trivia: the concrete monorail beams were manufactured in Washington State and shipped to FL.

 

[PlaneJane]

FYI: I just finished watching the episode of Modern Marvels on the History Channel that focused on WDW. They stated that the monorail system cost $1 million per mile for the 14 miles of track. And that's in 1970's dollars.

Bonus trivia: the concrete monorail beams were manufactured in Washington State and shipped to FL.

What cost $1,000,000 in 1971 would cost $4,757,235.80 in 2005.
Also, if you were to buy exactly the same products in 2005 and 1971,
they would cost you $1,000,000 and $210,206.10 respectively.

THIS IS FROM THE INFLATION CALCULATOR

 

[Iakona]

You are just one of many. In fact, yes, there are a lot of people who are basing their opinions of monorails upon rumors that are bandied about regarding WDW's rumored expansion - it is one of the larger rumors out there. And this is perpetuated by people - in some cases unintentioanlly, in other cases by people who are specifically against them. And it does impact other projects - several cities have rulled them out right at the outset because they are rumored to cost so much or to be so complicated, even when they are not.

I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. I am involved in local politics and I have never heard of an official base a major decision such as a monorail on a rumors and if any official ruled out a project because a rumor or something they heard on the internet then they are incompetent and unfit for their position. More likely that they have ruled them out because they are expensive and they saw the difficulties Las Vegas had.

 

[wannab@dis]

I have to agree with Marni on this one. If you read "Married to the Mouse" much of this is explained. The state has very little control of this stuff in the RCID. A few years ago the entire state of Florida adopted a universal building code, except for RCID which was exempt from these in favor of their own EPCOT building codes. Although to be honest RCID/Disney's EPCOT building codes are much stricter than the current Florida building codes. For years Disney didn't even have to pay impact fees. Now they do but not because they have to but rather they agreed to avoid the bad PR and conflicts that would have resulted

You're probably right, they can get around some items, but I don't think they would have a prayer against a state or federal environmental rule/law. If the state or feds decided to get in the middle, they could do so very easily. It's happened many times where the locality was over-ruled.

In any event, the costs for monorail expansion will probably outweigh the benefits for a while. While I would like to see the monorail between all the parks and many resorts, I think the money would be better spent on other areas.

 

[ogryn]

Don't know if this has already been posted... I don't even know if this is an old bumped thread! :lol:

Futuristic travel scheme unveiled

That looks quite cool. Probably not suited to the high volumes of traffic that WDW has, but people keep coming up with novel transport ideas

 

[peter11435]

You are just one of many. In fact, yes, there are a lot of people who are basing their opinions of monorails upon rumors that are bandied about regarding WDW's rumored expansion - it is one of the larger rumors out there. And this is perpetuated by people - in some cases unintentioanlly, in other cases by people who are specifically against them. And it does impact other projects - several cities have rulled them out right at the outset because they are rumored to cost so much or to be so complicated, even when they are not.

Monorails are very expensive.

 

[wannab@dis]

Don't know if this has already been posted... I don't even know if this is an old bumped thread! :lol:

Futuristic travel scheme unveiled

That looks quite cool. Probably not suited to the high volumes of traffic that WDW has, but people keep coming up with novel transport ideas

I saw a website somewhere about that scheme. Very interesting information. I think it was also the big idea for moving around the 'pyramid city'. (Hong Kong maybe? -- it was on a TLC show)

Also... no, this isn't an old bumped thread, it's a new thread old bumped topic. :lol:

 

[cloudboy]

More likely that they have ruled them out because they are expensive and they saw the difficulties Las Vegas had.

Monorails are very expensive.

See? This is the same exact mindset that politicians and the public start out with when trying to find an effective transportation solution. In most cases they don't even put monorail on the board since they think it is expensive and difficult, when in fact the actual data proves it is not.

I am not going to go into those arguments here - it has been done ad nauseum and beyon elsewhere on these and other boards. But just realize that when you throw out comments like those, you are in effect perpetuating misconceptions which detrimentally effect people decisions. If you don't like a particular application of technology, then argue why that particular application will not work. Don't go making false generalizations that are then used to kill projects unfairly.

 

[CaptainMichael]

See? This is the same exact mindset that politicians and the public start out with when trying to find an effective transportation solution. In most cases they don't even put monorail on the board since they think it is expensive and difficult, when in fact the actual data proves it is not.

I am not going to go into those arguments here - it has been done ad nauseum and beyon elsewhere on these and other boards. But just realize that when you throw out comments like those, you are in effect perpetuating misconceptions which detrimentally effect people decisions. If you don't like a particular application of technology, then argue why that particular application will not work. Don't go making false generalizations that are then used to kill projects unfairly.

In the past, facts and figures have been thrown around on threads. You can find them if you search. However, they usually get lost in the middle of BS posts and people calling the OP a troll. I do agree that the negative posts have perptuated the misconceptions that monorails are impossible.

 

[peter11435]

See? This is the same exact mindset that politicians and the public start out with when trying to find an effective transportation solution. In most cases they don't even put monorail on the board since they think it is expensive and difficult, when in fact the actual data proves it is not.

I am not going to go into those arguments here - it has been done ad nauseum and beyon elsewhere on these and other boards. But just realize that when you throw out comments like those, you are in effect perpetuating misconceptions which detrimentally effect people decisions. If you don't like a particular application of technology, then argue why that particular application will not work. Don't go making false generalizations that are then used to kill projects unfairly.

I love monorails. I would love to see monorails everywhere and I agree with
STR8FAN2005 that monorails are not impossible. However that said you can't say that monorails are not expensive. It is a fact not a misconception that monorails are very costly. The original costs of the WDW system were high let alone what they would cost today. While there were other problems associated with the Las Vegas monorail system the cost for those show that monorails are very expensive. The costs of the WDW original WDW monorail system as well as those in Las Vegas and around the world are public knowledge. I just don't see how you can say monorails’ being expensive is a misconception.

And lets not even get into the logistical problems of monorails. Anyone who has had to wait in a hot monorail (they shut off the air) for 20 in the afternoon while they move a monorail from the express loop to the Epcot loop and then wait on the afternoon safety checks knows that monorails are not necessarily the most efficient transportation option for WDW. I'm not saying that buses are the perfect answer, but monorails are not either.

 

[TimeTrip]

I love monorails. I would love to see monorails everywhere and I agree with
STR8FAN2005 that monorails are not impossible. However that said you can't say that monorails are not expensive. It is a fact not a misconception that monorails are very costly. The original costs of the WDW system were high let alone what they would cost today. While there were other problems associated with the Las Vegas monorail system the cost for those show that monorails are very expensive. The costs of the WDW original WDW monorail system as well as those in Las Vegas and around the world are public knowledge. I just don't see how you can say monorails’ being expensive is a misconception.

Well it all depends on how youre comparing the cost. if you're comparing it to busses, yes its expensive... but to something like elevated rail? Is it so clear cut then?

 

[peter11435]

Is it so clear cut then?

Well no. Compared to other elevated train systems monorail costs are not that bad. But that doesn't mean they are not expensive.

 

[DocMcHulk]

SkyTran

If Disney were to expand the Monorail, i think they should replace the monorail all together! *gasp* Yes, you heard me. They should move towards something that is more flexable and expandable. Something that is futuristic much hoow the monorail was 30 years ago. Personally, I like Skytran. Looks neat. It's Fast. And very expandable. Imagine... centralize ALL the Disney Parking into one area and use a Skytran system to move you to your desired park in just minutes.

Just my $.02.

 

[TimeTrip]

If Disney were to expand the Monorail, i think they should replace the monorail all together! *gasp* Yes, you heard me. They should move towards something that is more flexable and expandable. Something that is futuristic much hoow the monorail was 30 years ago. Personally, I like Skytran. Looks neat. It's Fast. And very expandable. Imagine... centralize ALL the Disney Parking into one area and use a Skytran system to move you to your desired park in just minutes.

Just my $.02.

IMO, the problem with WDW was that it was laid out in a sprawl.. There isn't an efficient way to connect everything.

 

[ThumpersThought]

And lets not even get into the logistical problems of monorails. Anyone who has had to wait in a hot monorail (they shut off the air) for 20 in the afternoon while they move a monorail from the express loop to the Epcot loop and then wait on the afternoon safety checks knows that monorails are not necessarily the most efficient transportation option for WDW. I'm not saying that buses are the perfect answer, but monorails are not either.

Ok, I've been avoiding this thread (other than lurking) but this paragraph left me with a "Wha??"

20 minutes to switch a train to Epcot? I don't think so. Perhaps if there's a technical problem, but I've done many switches and none were 20 minutes (ignoring after the line is down for the night). It's more like 8 minutes on a bad day. I've run from the Epcot side of TTC to Express, switched the train over to Epcot, drove to Epcot, did the safety test and been back to TTC in time for my break 20 minutes later (so that was about a 3 minute switch). A couple weeks ago we switched off 10 trains from all three beams to shop in 45 minutes.

And "they turn the air off" -- um, we can't do that. While we can turn off individual units (or more commonly, a breaker is off), we can't turn off the air to the train (we can't even set a temperature). Now, if a train is in the TTC express side when beam 8 is thrown, yes power will be lost -- but that train would be empty of guests. Other trains on both beams would still have 600 volts.

 

[peter11435]

Ok, I've been avoiding this thread (other than lurking) but this paragraph left me with a "Wha??"

20 minutes to switch a train to Epcot? I don't think so. Perhaps if there's a technical problem, but I've done many switches and none were 20 minutes (ignoring after the line is down for the night). It's more like 8 minutes on a bad day. I've run from the Epcot side of TTC to Express, switched the train over to Epcot, drove to Epcot, did the safety test and been back to TTC in time for my break 20 minutes later (so that was about a 3 minute switch). A couple weeks ago we switched off 10 trains from all three beams to shop in 45 minutes.

And "they turn the air off" -- um, we can't do that. While we can turn off individual units (or more commonly, a breaker is off), we can't turn off the air to the train (we can't even set a temperature). Now, if a train is in the TTC express side when beam 8 is thrown, yes power will be lost -- but that train would be empty of guests. Other trains on both beams would still have 600 volts.

All I know is what I experienced. It was about two weeks ago. They were moving yellow from the Express loop to the Epcot loop and another monorail from the barn to the express and I was on another monorail (don't remember what color) at the TTC. It wasn't exactly 20 minutes I admit but it was definitely at least 10. The entire time on the monorail the air was off and it was very hot. I saw and heard the pilot of our train as well as the pilot of yellow complaining about the heat and fanning themselves. As soon as the track switched back the air came back on and we were on our way. Then we stopped over the MK bus loop for another 4-5 minutes while they performed afternoon safety checks on the train in front of us. Maybe the air was out for another reason but it was definitely out. The monorail was very hot; the air was not running, the pilot was complaining, and the air turned on as soon as the track switched back. Maybe it was just a coincidence.

 

[mhochman]

Drawing people to the park. What kid says ' Hey mommy, lets go to Disney so we can ride the new mass transport system '...

Not for nothing, my the number 2 reason (after playing in the hotel pool) that my 3 1/2 year old wants to go back to WDW is to ride the monorail. It *is* a part of the WDW experience.