Monorail Expansion?

[RonAnnArbor]

Monorails and light rail systems are inefficient means of mass transit in a widely spread out area like WDW...the places where they work well (subway in NYC, Paris, London) it is because of the shear volume of the trains they run...subway trains run every two minutes in peak...exactly how many monorail trains are they going to put on any mass-transit track at WDW?...The busses will always have an advantage that way...Las Vegas is learning that lesson right now -- they spent gigabucks expanding their monorail system, and it is slow, inefficient, expensive to operate, expensive to ride, and ultimately has lost a tremendous amount of ridership...even the Simpsons learned that a monorail is not the solution...

If WDW expands their monorail (and they might, they have the infrastructure in place even if they choose not to use it) it would be to extend the "magic" not to improve the mass transit. I don't see them spending any money in todays tight market for big magic like that.

 

[imagineer boy]

This threads still going?!

*has another seizure, and alien bursts out of chest*

 

[TimeTrip]

The busses will always have an advantage that way...Las Vegas is learning that lesson right now

Are you implying that busses would have been a better solution for Las Vegas?

 

[CaptainMichael]

This threads still going?!

*has another seizure, and alien bursts out of chest*

**has Halo flashbacks**

 

[Tom]

Are you implying that busses would have been a better solution for Las Vegas?

I've been to Vegas twice. Imagine the worst traffic jam you've sat in on an interstate....that's what the "strip" looks like all the time. We took a shuttle to the Bellagio from the airport and it took FOREVER, and he had to take all kinds of back roads and alleys that the bus could barely fit through.

I will attest that the monorail system(s) in Vegas are the ideal means of transportation there - no matter what the cost. Every hotel is in a friggin row - so a straight line, stop-by-stop mass transit system is ideal.

I've taken tours out there where a bus will pick up people from each hotel, then head to the tour depot. We spent more time driving from the main road up to each hotel than we did on the main road itself. Bus and taxi transportation in Vegas is far inferior to the monorails, in my opinion.

At WDW it's the opposite. I LOVE the monorail, but the bus system is still superior as far as moving people from point A to point B - when those 2 points are at opposite ends of the property.

 

[jmicro59]

This threads still going?!

*has another seizure, and alien bursts out of chest*

Still going....

 

[peter11435]

I've been to Vegas twice. Imagine the worst traffic jam you've sat in on an interstate....that's what the "strip" looks like all the time. We took a shuttle to the Bellagio from the airport and it took FOREVER, and he had to take all kinds of back roads and alleys that the bus could barely fit through.

I will attest that the monorail system(s) in Vegas are the ideal means of transportation there - no matter what the cost. Every hotel is in a friggin row - so a straight line, stop-by-stop mass transit system is ideal.

I've taken tours out there where a bus will pick up people from each hotel, then head to the tour depot. We spent more time driving from the main road up to each hotel than we did on the main road itself. Bus and taxi transportation in Vegas is far inferior to the monorails, in my opinion.

At WDW it's the opposite. I LOVE the monorail, but the bus system is still superior as far as moving people from point A to point B - when those 2 points are at opposite ends of the property.

Excellent post. What it really comes down to is the layout. WDW’s layout is what makes monorail expansion a problem.

 

[RonAnnArbor]

Omg No!

OMG -- I hope the person above didn't think I thought the bus system works in Vegas -- it's the worst in the country!...I was saying that the Monorail was expensive to build and DID NOT solve the transportation problem there.

 

[TimeTrip]

OMG -- I hope the person above didn't think I thought the bus system works in Vegas -- it's the worst in the country!...I was saying that the Monorail was expensive to build and DID NOT solve the transportation problem there.

Then don't phrase your post that way

 

[artvandelay]

I've been to Vegas twice. Imagine the worst traffic jam you've sat in on an interstate....that's what the "strip" looks like all the time. We took a shuttle to the Bellagio from the airport and it took FOREVER, and he had to take all kinds of back roads and alleys that the bus could barely fit through.

I will attest that the monorail system(s) in Vegas are the ideal means of transportation there - no matter what the cost. Every hotel is in a friggin row - so a straight line, stop-by-stop mass transit system is ideal.

I've taken tours out there where a bus will pick up people from each hotel, then head to the tour depot. We spent more time driving from the main road up to each hotel than we did on the main road itself. Bus and taxi transportation in Vegas is far inferior to the monorails, in my opinion.

At WDW it's the opposite. I LOVE the monorail, but the bus system is still superior as far as moving people from point A to point B - when those 2 points are at opposite ends of the property.

Absolutely. Sometimes, it's quicker to get on the interstate than go on the strip.

 

[Tom]

Absolutely. Sometimes, it's quicker to get on the interstate than go on the strip.

Yeah, we found that out on one of our crazy taxi rides! We went to Fremont Street and then to the Rio for Penn & Teller - and we spent a lot of time on the interstate.

 

[KumbaRider]

On CSI they never seem to have a problem.

 

[WDW John]

But alas...the huge cost...the logistics that show a fixed beam system won't handle the crowds...maybe Disney can come up with some newer technology that will allow for something more affordable, that can handle the ebb and flow of the crowds.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the costs of running the current system? I just wonder if somewhere down the road (rail?) the decision will be made to discontinue the monorail, considering it's costs and inefficiency.

To me the Epcot station is looking very dated and worn and has for several years, TTC and MK look fine though. Let's just say that it gets to the point where a decision has to be made about refurbing and the costs of that refurb plus regular maintenance plus operation and everything outweigh the costs of something new and more efficient, could the monorail be killed off?

I realize that people would be upset at the loss and that the monorail is part of the draw to Disney World, but so are other attractions that get replaced. Why should the monorail be any different?

I look forward to a ride on the monorail just as much as anyone else, but if something better comes along I can't say that I wouldn't be happy with the new way. If anything we wouldn't get any more monorail expansion threads.

 

[Horizons78]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know the costs of running the current system? I just wonder if somewhere down the road (rail?) the decision will be made to discontinue the monorail, considering it's costs and inefficiency.

Along the same lines - My question has always been what is the lifespan on the concrete beams and pillars?

Those materials had to have been designed with a lifespan in mind.

Anybody know?

 

[Tom]

Along the same lines - My question has always been what is the lifespan on the concrete beams and pillars?

Those materials had to have been designed with a lifespan in mind.

Anybody know?

The current rule-of-thumb in commercial construction is to build structures and buildings that will last 100 years. I don't know if that was the goal back in the 70s - but knowing how WDW did things then, I'd bet that they were designed to last at least that long.

Like I've said before, I witnessed the construction of the beams for the vegas monorail - and the engineer on-site explained that they were using the same means and methods that WDW employed when they built their Florida system - simply because the first monorails running on Vegas' system were the old retired Marks (I forget the series, IV perhaps - the ones with the doors you had to manually slam shut) from WDW. They used extremely high-strength concrete cast-in-place around pre-stressed and post-tensioned cables and tie-rods, with MAJOR rebar cages embedded.

To summarize the above paragraph of Construction Lingo: the beams are hella good and will last a hella long time

 

[Horizons78]

To summarize the above paragraph of Construction Lingo: the beams are hella good and will last a hella long time

Awesome . . . Thanks edward! (Off topic btw: got my airline tickets and car lined up for the 500, I can smell the methanol from here! Woo-hoo!)

Cool info....:wave:

 

[marni1971]

I witnessed the construction of the beams for the vegas monorail - and the engineer on-site explained that they were using the same means and methods that WDW employed when they built their Florida system

Interesting - the WDW beams are concrete shells with a honeycombed polystyrene composite interior. This gives the strength of a full concrete beam for a fraction of the weight.

 

[Tom]

Interesting - the WDW beams are concrete shells with a honeycombed polystyrene composite interior. This gives the strength of a full concrete beam for a fraction of the weight.

You are exactly right Marni - and you jogged my memory. They're basically made in giant forms - they build a rebar cage inside, and then fill that with a huge honeycomb foam block - the post-tensioned cables stretch through conduits in the foam and are tied to steel columns outside each end of the beam. Then they pour the High Strength concrete around all of that. We saw completed beams and a few that were ready to pour, and we actually saw them pour one of them live - with a giant overhead track crane with a concrete bucket. Quite awesome.

I'm digging through my pics of that trip, but I didn't have my camera for that day - my professor had his though. I'm going to e-mail him and see if he can send me some of those. I have a few of the old WDW monorails, because he was a HUGE Disney fan too, and when we both saw that old Mark pull up, we freaked out and took pics of each other in it, and several of the outside. It still said CAST MEMBERS ONLY on the doors :lol:

 

[Melerella]

On CSI they never seem to have a problem.

CSI :sohappy:

I wanna see Gil Grissom in WDW...every problem would be solved..lolol = )

 

[marni1971]

I'm digging through my pics of that trip, but I didn't have my camera for that day - my professor had his though. I'm going to e-mail him and see if he can send me some of those.

That`ll be good