Monorail Expansion?

[bugsbunny]

You build subways when you have a lack of real estate and/or you want to "hide" the ugliness of the railway. WDW does not meet either of this criteria.

Water table has NOTHING to do NOT being able to engineer a subway. It can be done and is just another factor in building it. They are sealed tunnels in the ground, just the same as building a submerged tunnel like the Holland or Lincoln Tunnel. Or if you want to carve it out "under" the water table, like the Chunnel.

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY is building monorails, cars, or the system that goes with it in large numbers. Therefore, you either engineer it yourself or pay somone to do it. That is where the majority of the money goes. Build something from scratch, but make sure it has a ZERO chance of failure and we need it to last 1,000,000 miles between replacements. How much will that cost?

And another issue is power. The monorails run on 600 volt DC current at as high as 2000 amps. Since power stations generate AC, you need to convert it to DC. DC does NOT have the ability to go far without dropping off its load. That means you have to put rectifiers and substations all over the place to convert and condition the power. That is a LOT of money, a lot of engineering, and a lot of things to go wrong over time.

In the end, the bean counters will say: buy a bus and pay someone $15/hour plus benefits. It's a helluva lot cheaper to stick a sign in the ground that says "Board here" then it is to build an station, infrastructure, and a complete monorail just becuase it looks "neat".

And not for anything, just because you have a lot of posts here doesn't make you a self proclaimed expert on things. If you don't have an engineering background or don't understand polictics and economics....DON'T just repeat what you read in an article from somewhere else. It does NOT make you an authority on anything other than bookmarking sites in your browser. :animwink:

There are a lot of know-it-alls here that just love to jump on people that have a different opinion then the "experts". Listen for once, you might just learn something from these noobs!

 

[imagineer boy]

Oh god, this thread is still going on?

 

[wdwishes2005]

apparently.

 

[marni1971]

Just a thought for you Monorail junkies - WDI are back engineering DLCs fleet over the next few years. Possibly for a new mk of car. Why not build a few (dozen) extra whilst they are at it?

Damn, I`ve just posted reply #105 :lol:

 

[peter11435]

Just a thought for you Monorail junkies - WDI are back engineering DLCs fleet over the next few years. Possibly for a new mk of car. Why not build a few (dozen) extra whilst they are at it?

Damn, I`ve just posted reply #105 :lol:

My understanding was that DL and WDW have a different beam width. And therefore they both require there own vehicle design.

 

[Nicole]

Just curious, how long was your wait for the monorail at park closing?

I ask, because we've never stayed until closing. And I'm hoping to make a point.

Well I guess I'm missing your point - is it not to wait for park closing? We have only once waited for the monorail, and after sitting in the park for 45 minutes after Wishes ended we still had to wait for four monorails till there was room for us on one.

edited to add that the reason we've only waited once is that now we pretty much only take WDW transportation on days we're planning to stay at the park till closing.

 

[CommunicoreBabe]

Instead of Leave a Legacy, I wish they'd have a Leave a Monorail Pylon. :lol:
I'd love to make a small donation and have my name left somewhere saying that I contributed to monorail expansion to the other two parks.

 

[MickeyTigg]

I'm not going to say that monorail expansion will happen at some point.....it's just not going to happen anytime soon....it's just too expensive.

Comments on a couple of points made....

First...as the OP stated this is CM speculation. Disney is not going to tell any front line CM anything like this until it is close to happening and it's like you'll have read it from sources like Steve, Lee or Corrus before the CM knows about it.

Also....just because this was a tour CM means nothing....I've had people tell me that some can't even get basic facts about WDW right, much less be right about a rumor as big as this.

Easements are for "just in case"....they don't mean that anything is immenent or even planned. We once live somewhere where there was an easement along the back of our lot for widening of a highway...it didn't happen when we lived there and as far as I know 16 years later, they still haven't widened that highway.

 

[UncleScrooge]

First of all let me say that I do not think that the monorail system will EVER be expanded; the building and operating costs would most likely outweigh any possible long term gain. A large scale expansion of the monorail to MGM, Downtown Disney, or to more resorts, especially to places like the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace><st1laceName>Caribbean</st1laceName> <st1laceType>Beach</st1laceType></st1lace> or the All Star resorts will probably not happen, ever.
With that being said, I can think of one possible exception, where the potential long term revenue might be able to justify a limited expansion, but even this is a long shot. I am by no means an economist, but just hear me out. I would propose that they construct one additional monorail loop that makes only three stops. It would run from the Transportation and <st1lace><st1laceName>Ticket</st1laceName> <st1laceType>Center</st1laceType></st1lace>, to the Animal Kingdom Lodge, then to the Animal Kingdom, and then back to the T&TC. Now granted this would be an extremely expensive to build as the T&TC is a considerable distance from the Animal Kingdom area. However, there is a potential monetary gain. One of the reasons for the high price of the deluxe resorts is that they offer ease of transportation. Yet, the transportation provided in all cases is rather limited. The Contemporary, Polynesian, and Grand Floridian only offer monorail service to the <st1lace><st1laceName>Magic</st1laceName> <st1laceType>Kingdom</st1laceType></st1lace> and Epcot; to get to MGM or the Animal Kingdom one must take a bus. Likewise, the Animal Kingdom Lodge only offers bus transportation to all of the parks. By adding this proposed loop not only are you expanding the Contemporary’s, Polynesian’s, and Grand Floridian’s monorail service (via one connection, as with Epcot) to a third park, but you are also expanding the Animal Kingdom Lodge’s monorail service to 3 parks (via one connection at the T&TC to either the Magic Kingdom or Epcot). As a result, WDW could justify raising the room rates at the effected resorts because they now provide this additional service. Also, now monorails would directly connect the three parks for mid-day park hopping instead of relying on buses.
Additionally, money might also be saved because this new system would replace several bus routes: 1) Contemporary to Animal Kingdom, 2) Polynesian to Animal Kingdom, 3) Grand Floridian to Animal Kingdom, 4) Animal Kingdom Lodge to Animal Kingdom, 5) Animal Kingdom Lodge to Magic Kingdom, 6) Animal Kingdom Lodge to Epcot, 7) Animal Kingdom to Magic Kingdom, and 8) Animal Kingdom to Epcot. Now figure 3 to 4 buses per route, that’s 24-32 buses and all that fuel that can now be replaced by this one monorail loop. Also, the monorails are cleaner and will not congest the roads with all those buses. This when combined with the increased room rates, over the long term, might offset the cost of its construction. Although, even I have my doubts about this. Well, it’s all just conjecture and wishful thinking.

 

[unkadug]

...Easements are for "just in case"....they don't mean that anything is immenent or even planned. We once live somewhere where there was an easement along the back of our lot for widening of a highway...it didn't happen when we lived there and as far as I know 16 years later, they still haven't widened that highway.

Doesn't an easement imply right-of-way and ownership.

Since WDW owns all the property, is it really an easement or just part of the masterplan?

 

[MickeyTigg]

Doesn't an easement imply right-of-way and ownership.

Since WDW owns all the property, is it really an easement or just part of the masterplan?

Right of way is probably a better term....yeah...it probably is part of the masterplan of WDW....a plan that was probably developed years ago.

 

[CaptainMichael]

I want to know how monorails were affordable back then when they were relatively new but more expensive 30something years later. In theory, technology should get cheaper as time passes even with inflation.

 

[Monty]

Doesn't an easement imply right-of-way and ownership.

Since WDW owns all the property, is it really an easement or just part of the masterplan?

I'd bet it's an easement. In the event that Corporate decided to sell hotels and/or DVC properties, having an easement in place would ensure the possibility of future availability. As just "part of the masterplan", it could be problematic to get an easement later in the event of a property divestment. Disney would certainly have considered all long-range possibilities.

 

[marni1971]

My understanding was that DL and WDW have a different beam width. And therefore they both require there own vehicle design.

Same basic design, different chassis since, yes, DL`s beam is smaller. I did read however there is one plan when the DLC system goes down of replacing the entire track with WDW spec beams.

 

[twx24me]

Doesn't an easement imply right-of-way and ownership.

Since WDW owns all the property, is it really an easement or just part of the masterplan?

Well when I bought into DVC for Saratogo Springs, the exact wording of the disclosure I had to sign said specificly a Monorail Easment went through the property of the resort!

 

[bugsbunny]

I'd bet it's an easement. In the event that Corporate decided to sell hotels and/or DVC properties, having an easement in place would ensure the possibility of future availability. As just "part of the masterplan", it could be problematic to get an easement later in the event of a property divestment. Disney would certainly have considered all long-range possibilities.

When you buy into DVC, you are technically buying property and have ownership of real estate. You own like 1/10 of 1% or whatever number it comes out it. It's different from site to site depending on how many units, etc.

Just like a house or any other place you get a mortgage on, you are the owner. WDW or not, you own that piece and unless you waive that right, like with an easement, nobody can just build there. They might be able to pull a "public domain" type of thing, but the backlash would be horrific. So they just put an easment in there like any other contract might have for public drainage, undergrond wires, etc.

 

[imagineer boy]

*goes into another seizure*

 

[unkadug]

Oh,:hammer: I forgot about the DVC thing. That would explain the necessity of easements.

I couldn't figure out why Disney would have to protect itself from itself.

Bugsbunny... I think you mean "emminent domain.":wave:

 

[jmicro59]

I want to know how monorails were affordable back then when they were relatively new but more expensive 30something years later. In theory, technology should get cheaper as time passes even with inflation.

That's a great question. The only reason I could think of would be that monorails are still "specialty" equipment and not readily available where there is a company just turning out hundreds of them a month. Someone more in the know may be able to clear this up but I bet Disney places an order and then waits months or maybe a year before they see a product. So much like a Lamborghini sports car, another “specialty” product the price remains pretty consistent for each monorail car/train.

 

[jmicro59]

Double well said.

This thread's beginning is horrible, and largely the reason why I now mainly lurk and rarely post on this forum. Some of the members scare me with their holier than thou posts and replies. I'd rather not contribute for fear of breaking one of the ten commandments. hopefully the admins read this and recognize that good people are being frightened away from the boards based on many older members' replies that sting and hurt.

Although I do agree some behavior on this board is offensive but I think Steve does a good job at "taming" those individuals, but we have to be adults, I mean c'mon. Someone calls you a name or disputes what you've posted and this makes you stop posting?!?!? You must drive a car and chances are you've had someone show you a certain hand gesture or called you a colorful metaphor, I assume this didn't make you stop driving. If you don't post due to these individuals then they win and the rest of us lose. It's very, very easy to just not reply or even read someone else's post that you find offensive, don't let it ruin your time doing something you enjoy. For every jerk on this board I bet you'll meet 10 great people with fantastic things to say and discuss.