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Monorail Automation Testing

larryz

Can't 'Member Anything
Premium Member
I have to admit that because of this thread, I'm a lot less comfortable with taking the monorail to get to the parks... the idea of a train breaking down then catching fire on one of the more remote spans, with no way out short of jumping to the ground, seems like an entirely avoidable risk to me.
 

mcrgw29

New Member
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I have to admit that because of this thread, I'm a lot less comfortable with taking the monorail to get to the parks... the idea of a train breaking down then catching fire on one of the more remote spans, with no way out short of jumping to the ground, seems like an entirely avoidable risk to me.
They have emergency procedures in place and none of that changes with this new automation. The problem being faced is the monorails not hitting their marks in the stations (or even making the stations) at times. Easy way to add 10+ minutes to the trip while the computers try to figure out what went wrong.
 

articos

Well-Known Member
I have to admit that because of this thread, I'm a lot less comfortable with taking the monorail to get to the parks... the idea of a train breaking down then catching fire on one of the more remote spans, with no way out short of jumping to the ground, seems like an entirely avoidable risk to me.
Disney's monorail system is one of the safest forms of mass transportation on the planet. The automation testing isn't putting safety at risk, and there is always a pilot in the cab who can override as an additional safeguard.
 

Monorail_Red

Active Member
I have to admit that because of this thread, I'm a lot less comfortable with taking the monorail to get to the parks... the idea of a train breaking down then catching fire on one of the more remote spans, with no way out short of jumping to the ground, seems like an entirely avoidable risk to me.
As others have already alluded to the automation implementation in no way increases or decreases the already extremely low chances of something like this happening. The Monorails are an extremely safe means of transportation.
 

Bolt

Well-Known Member
I have to admit that because of this thread, I'm a lot less comfortable with taking the monorail to get to the parks... the idea of a train breaking down then catching fire on one of the more remote spans, with no way out short of jumping to the ground, seems like an entirely avoidable risk to me.
It must stink that you don't take mass transit trains in most other large cities then, too.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Does this mean that new trains are still a possibility? Is this project with the current fleet an intermediate step towards new trains to run on the system once the automation is all worked out?
I can't speak to Disney's thoughts on new trains. My position is that it would be a waste of money versus extensive refurbishment and rebuilding. People want the satisfaction of newness but being new doing fix the underlying organizational problems.
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
Automation is not some standard feature that only exists within the trains.
I get that, but if they bought a system already integrated within the trains, they wouldn't have to try to make it work all together. They buy the trackside system, the automation management system/controls and the trains with the system already integrated then it would be a lot like buying 2017 Chevy Corvette vs a 1967 Vette and then trying to put a 2017 Vette engine in it. If done right, the 67 is going to cost way more to retrofit vs just buying a 2017.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I get that, but if they bought a system already integrated within the trains, they wouldn't have to try to make it work all together. They buy the trackside system, the automation management system/controls and the trains with the system already integrated then it would be a lot like buying 2017 Chevy Corvette vs a 1967 Vette and then trying to put a 2017 Vette engine in it. If done right, the 67 is going to cost way more to retrofit vs just buying a 2017.
Bombardier uses Thales for the automation features they advertise for their monorails. These projects, even when new, have start up difficulties because they're not all using the same systems. There is no standard and Disney's system is existing.
 

mm121

Well-Known Member
Monorail Blue has a "honorary" decal on it dedicated to Jim Vendur, a longtime WDW Transportation executive. There's a close-up of it in another thread here somewhere.
is their a decal or something somewhere honoring that younger driver that got killed a couple years back? which is partly what prompted this automation?
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
Bombardier uses Thales for the automation features they advertise for their monorails. These projects, even when new, have start up difficulties because they're not all using the same systems. There is no standard and Disney's system is existing.
Isn't Las Vegas automated and aren't those trains Mark VI variants? I am sorry. I am admittedly clueless on automation for trains like this. I just assume that if it has been done once, it should take 3-4 years to install and test it in another location.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Isn't Las Vegas automated and aren't those trains Mark VI variants? I am sorry. I am admittedly clueless on automation for trains like this. I just assume that if it has been done once, it should take 3-4 years to install and test it in another location.
Yes, Las Vegas is an automated system using what we're then called M-VI trains (since renamed INNOVIA 200). The Las Vegas automation system is a Thales system. Thales is doing the automation for Walt Disney World. Thales has done this many times before, could be described as one of the best in the business, and still has plenty of headaches.
 

mcrgw29

New Member
is their a decal or something somewhere honoring that younger driver that got killed a couple years back? which is partly what prompted this automation?
No. I do believe that it was part of what started the automation talks, but I that isn't something I'm sure on.
 

Monorail_Red

Active Member
My guess is this is something they had to do. All newer monorail type vehicles out there are pretty much autonomous. So if they were to purchase new trains instead of retrofitting the current, they probably couldn't run with the new with the old in a transition period. With retrofitting the current trains, they can switch between the autonomous mode and legacy mode as they did during the implementation over the past few years. If they just purchased new autonomous trains they would probably have to completely shut things down for a lengthy amount of time while old trains are removed, new ones are added, equipment is installed/tested, etc. Now they have the framework in place for autonomous trains so should they be replaced down the road, it won't be as harsh of a transition. Just my opinion as an IT guy who specializes in integrations.
 

mcrgw29

New Member
My guess is this is something they had to do. All newer monorail type vehicles out there are pretty much autonomous. So if they were to purchase new trains instead of retrofitting the current, they probably couldn't run with the new with the old in a transition period. With retrofitting the current trains, they can switch between the autonomous mode and legacy mode as they did during the implementation over the past few years. If they just purchased new autonomous trains they would probably have to completely shut things down for a lengthy amount of time while old trains are removed, new ones are added, equipment is installed/tested, etc. Now they have the framework in place for autonomous trains so should they be replaced down the road, it won't be as harsh of a transition. Just my opinion as an IT guy who specializes in integrations.
Bingo. Many people are thinking that the whole purpose of retrofitting these trains is so that they can finally get new ones (that's a whole other ball game though) without shutting the entire monorail system down for months on end to install and test the new trains because, like you said, it would have to be done all at once. You can't run automation and legacy on the same beam and it's incredibly difficult to run both on separate beams at the same time.
 

RustySpork

Oscar Mayer Memer
Even with all this automation, they'll probably still always be down multiple times a day every single day. I'll stick to the Ferry.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
Yes, Las Vegas is an automated system using what we're then called M-VI trains (since renamed INNOVIA 200). The Las Vegas automation system is a Thales system. Thales is doing the automation for Walt Disney World. Thales has done this many times before, could be described as one of the best in the business, and still has plenty of headaches.
the cars themselves have since been replaced right? i know they started off as MVIs? but didn't they already swap them out with something entirely new?
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
It must stink that you don't take mass transit trains in most other large cities then, too.
If public transportation were more than just the last chance option for the great unwashed masses in most citiea I would. I lived in the DC area for 5 years (Arlington) and actually road the Metro regularly.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
the cars themselves have since been replaced right? i know they started off as MVIs? but didn't they already swap them out with something entirely new?
The M-VIs have not been replaced. Bombardier rebranded the M-VI as the INNOVIA 200 a few years ago. The M-VIs replaced the two Walt Disney World Mark IVs (Lime and Coral) that operated on the initial part of the line between Bally's and MGM Grand.
 

Monorail_Red

Active Member
the cars themselves have since been replaced right? i know they started off as MVIs? but didn't they already swap them out with something entirely new?
You might be thinking of the two old WDW Mark IV trains that were originally used there. From what I understand they were phased out after a short while and replaced with what they're running currently.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
The M-VIs have not been replaced. Bombardier rebranded the M-VI as the INNOVIA 200 a few years ago. The M-VIs replaced the two Walt Disney World Mark IVs (Lime and Coral) that operated on the initial part of the line between Bally's and MGM Grand.
Yes that is what I was thinking of!
 
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