Disone
Well-Known Member
ummmmmm.... It was purely wishful thinking.
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Monorail Automation Testing
- Thread starter monothingie
- Start date
danlb_2000
Premium Member
I think it's funny that several companies have created cars that can deal with the massive number of variables needed to drive autonomously on public roads but they are struggling to automate the monorails which operated in an extremely controlled environment.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
That's incorrect.
Rider
Well-Known Member
For comparison when New York City wanted to automate the small Canarsie Line (100 years old, 10 miles in length, 27 stations) they started planning in 1999, installed equipment from 2003 to 2006, started testing in 2005, ran some automatic trains in 2010 (with others that had drivers) and finally got full automation running on all trains in 2012.
All at a cost of $340 million
All at a cost of $340 million
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Well there does need to be a back end and signalling system to support the trains,
That said this is not rocket science I expect that the difficulties encountered are because as usual Disney is dragging out the funding across quarters so the 'Books look good' and so a 6-9 month project in any other transit system becomes a multi-year effort.
Mainly because the expertise needed is also needed for other projects so an engineer uses up the hours on each slice of funding and then that project comes to a halt until the next time funding + engineering resource availability comes round. Plus Thales has no incentive to put their best and most productive people on the job because they are not going to be allowed to complete the phase in it's entirety. Say the effort needs 1200 hours of engineering time for a task, But Disney only budgets 200/Hrs quarter it's going to take SIX quarters to get that done + resync time. But if it had been budgeted as a project the engineer could probably have knocked it off in 5-6 months.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Big difference in adding automation to a 100 year old subway line which is part of the most complex and comprehensive subway system in the entire world, Vs adding automation to a standalone platform which has been automated many times before in multiple cities.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Yeah - The NYC R160 & R162 A/B cars are used ONLY on the NYC subway
Rider
Well-Known Member
I'm just providing prospective to people who think these sort of retrofits are easy. Real railroads cannot even do it properly without spending decades and hundreds of millions of dollars. Just because Las Vegas built an automated system from scratch using newly built MKVI trains doesn't mean that there is some switch Disney can flip in the electrical cabinet to make it work.
This is IMPORTANT work that has real SAFETY concerns if done wrong. That's why it takes so long to finish.
This is IMPORTANT work that has real SAFETY concerns if done wrong. That's why it takes so long to finish.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Yes, I agree, but 3 years and still counting? And that doesn't even count how long design work was going on prior to that.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Safety critical work is done on a timely basis every day by engineers, It's not rocket science in most cases, Just drive onto a bridge or step in an elevator you are trusting your life that a team of engineers did their job correctly.
The only flaw in that argument is the Las Vegas monorail has been automated since the beginning and that started with Monorails retired from service at DL, So all the work has been DONE on the same vehicle platform and just needs to be replicated yet Disney cannot seem to figure the process out
ImagineDziner
Member
While I could be mistaken, I'm pretty sure that the monorail trains initially used for the Vegas monorail line were Mark IV trains that came from Walt Disney World and not Disneyland. I'm also pretty sure that those 2 initial Mark IV trains were not automated.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The Mark IVs were used on the MGM Grand – Bally's Monorail which was a smaller, two station shuttle line that was expanded into the Las Vegas Monorail.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
The point is the ONLY difference in the LVM between the LVM and current WDW fleet is the fiberglas shell, The drive and controls are identical as both are a Mark VI chassis
You are correct in that Mk IV monorails were sold by WDW to LVM, But remember the Mk IV were rebuilt from Mk III monorails which were used at DL so ???
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
It's still the same Drive and control system the shell does not count.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the closure and massive expansion project that is the reason why the Las Vegas Monorail is discussed separately from the MGM Grand – Bally's Monorail.
thehowiet
Wilson King of Prussia
As usual @lazyboy97o is correct. Unfortunately, the last I saw/heard those two Mark IVs (Lime and Coral I believe) have basically been left to rot and get tagged by graffiti in the desert. Not sure if they're still there. I was a little "under the weather" during daylight hours when I could have investigated their current whereabouts during my last bachelor party trip there.
I do recommend that anyone interested in transportation, specifically rail, to check out the LV Monorail system and ride it if you're ever in Vegas. I always make it a point to at least take a ride up/down the strip whwnever I'm visiting Sin City. Very cool operation. Perhaps one day they'll actually extend the line to the airport. It really wouldn't be all that hard in the grand scheme of things. I imagine the cab drivers will continue to lobby against that though so that one might not ever happen.
A company like Tesla doesn't take their system and apply it to a 25 year old Buick and hope that it works properly. The current trains weren't designed for this application. This is probably why you see the increased level of reliability issues cropping up (beyond standard age, wear and tear.)
The NYC project that automated the line got entirely new trains. WDW does not have that.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Trains are not cars. INNOVIA 200s are not significantly different from the Mark VIs upon which they are based. New trains won't fix anything, they'll just temporarily mask these same problems.
Disone
Well-Known Member
Well that was insightful:/ care to elaborate? I was speculating but one thing I will say, the automation is not meant to be part time and only during part of the day. That part is not in correct. That part I am sure of.