MK Themed parties...ripping off regular customers?

[devoy1701]

Paying extra for the Halloween Party is definitely well worth it...

but I don't think any of the parties are actually a rip off. I won't be attending the Christmas Party ever again because I think they oversold my night and the cookies and hot cocoa weren't enough to justify me paying for the event...it felt like a normal extra magical hours night.

but what I mean by sying that I don't think the parties are a rip off is that it is an excellent way for local residents to check out the Magic Kingdom for half the cost of a one day ticket....They still get 8 hours in the park, and with only a fraction of the crowds, they are pretty much guarenteed to get on all the attractions. Plus, the Xmas party or Halloween party gives alittle extra experience to their visit with being able to dress up or to get free goodies!

my gf and I have taken plenty of friends to the hard ticket events who normally don't feel like paying 100 bucks to visit Disney., or dont even like WDW much for that matter...but they have a great time, and they even say they'll do it again...They still won't pay $71+tax for a regular ticket or $120 for a 3-day play pass, but $43 for 8hrs in the MK....what a bargin!!!

 

[MousDad]

I'm a baker, and I can bake a chocolate cake that everyone loves and says is the best in the world. In fact, they line up out the door of my shop all day from open to close.

Because everyone loves them, I charge a premium price. $19.95 for one cake. I am making all the cakes I can and I still sell out every day, keeping other customers without a cake. There's no way I can up production without opening another shop.

I would say I'm one smart and successful baker.

But......

I get a brilliant idea. One day, before opening the shop, I post a sign by the door. The sign says "Introducing the deluxe mini-cake! Only $12.95! Today only!" At the bottom, under the beautiful picture of my deluxe mini-cake I post a statement which says: "Please note: On deluxe, mini-cake days, our regular cake size will be diminished by 25%."

So, after my full production of cakes, I cut a 1/4 wedge out of each cake. I re-frost the smaller wedge, add whip cream mouse ears and sprinkles. Oh yeah, I also re-frost the big cakes and put coupons in the empty space in the box.

I'm a little nervous opening that day. "I wonder if anyone will complain about the smaller cake size," I wonder. Pretty soon the doors open. By the end of the day, to my amazement, my customer count has gone up by 30%!! And sales? Yeeee-hawwww!

And would you believe, people buying my big cakes would get halfway out the door, notice their cake was smaller than normal, and turn right around and buy the deluxe mini-cake to make up the difference (especially if their kids were screaming about it)! So I was getting more customers (some paying twice!) and significantly higher sales.

I did get a few dirty looks, but once they took a bite of my cake, they forgot to complain and just startet stuffing their faces.

So now, I do this once a week. I would say I've gone from smart, successful baker to puuuure genius. :wave:

 

[WildLodgeFan]

^^^^^^^
:roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol::roflol:

 

[jtwyatt]

I'm a baker, and I can bake a chocolate cake that everyone loves and says is the best in the world. In fact, they line up out the door of my shop all day from open to close.

Because everyone loves them, I charge a premium price. $19.95 for one cake. I am making all the cakes I can and I still sell out every day, keeping other customers without a cake. There's no way I can up production without opening another shop.

I would say I'm one smart and successful baker.

But......

I get a brilliant idea. One day, before opening the shop, I post a sign by the door. The sign says "Introducing the deluxe mini-cake! Only $12.95! Today only!" At the bottom, under the beautiful picture of my deluxe mini-cake I post a statement which says: "Please note: On deluxe, mini-cake days, our regular cake size will be diminished by 25%."

So, after my full production of cakes, I cut a 1/4 wedge out of each cake. I re-frost the smaller wedge, add whip cream mouse ears and sprinkles. Oh yeah, I also re-frost the big cakes and put coupons in the empty space in the box.

I'm a little nervous opening that day. "I wonder if anyone will complain about the smaller cake size," I wonder. Pretty soon the doors open. By the end of the day, to my amazement, my customer count has gone up by 30%!! And sales? Yeeee-hawwww!

And would you believe, people buying my big cakes would get halfway out the door, notice their cake was smaller than normal, and turn right around and buy the deluxe mini-cake to make up the difference (especially if their kids were screaming about it)! So I was getting more customers (some paying twice!) and significantly higher sales.

I did get a few dirty looks, but once they took a bite of my cake, they forgot to complain and just startet stuffing their faces.

So now, I do this once a week. I would say I've gone from smart, successful baker to puuuure genius. :wave:

GREAT ANALOGY!!

 

[Eyorefan]

I'm a baker, and I can bake a chocolate cake that everyone loves and says is the best in the world. In fact, they line up out the door of my shop all day from open to close.

Because everyone loves them, I charge a premium price. $19.95 for one cake. I am making all the cakes I can and I still sell out every day, keeping other customers without a cake. There's no way I can up production without opening another shop.

I would say I'm one smart and successful baker.

But......

I get a brilliant idea. One day, before opening the shop, I post a sign by the door. The sign says "Introducing the deluxe mini-cake! Only $12.95! Today only!" At the bottom, under the beautiful picture of my deluxe mini-cake I post a statement which says: "Please note: On deluxe, mini-cake days, our regular cake size will be diminished by 25%."

So, after my full production of cakes, I cut a 1/4 wedge out of each cake. I re-frost the smaller wedge, add whip cream mouse ears and sprinkles. Oh yeah, I also re-frost the big cakes and put coupons in the empty space in the box.

I'm a little nervous opening that day. "I wonder if anyone will complain about the smaller cake size," I wonder. Pretty soon the doors open. By the end of the day, to my amazement, my customer count has gone up by 30%!! And sales? Yeeee-hawwww!

And would you believe, people buying my big cakes would get halfway out the door, notice their cake was smaller than normal, and turn right around and buy the deluxe mini-cake to make up the difference (especially if their kids were screaming about it)! So I was getting more customers (some paying twice!) and significantly higher sales.

I did get a few dirty looks, but once they took a bite of my cake, they forgot to complain and just startet stuffing their faces.

So now, I do this once a week. I would say I've gone from smart, successful baker to puuuure genius. :wave:

Try... "Put up a big poster flanked with toparies that listed the dates my mini-cakes would be sold, and I also printed the schedule on flyers I handed out to all my customers when they walked up."

You may think that they offer too many parties, but I hardly think they are riping off the public. The park doesn't always stay open to 11:00 in the off season and closes early on other days due to different events. And no, it's not a huge secerate. It's on the web-site months in advnace and on the times guides that are given to people when they check into their hotel.

By your logic, AK is a total rip off. The ticket prices are the same, but it closes as early as 6:00 on a regular basis.

 

[KingStefan]

I'm a baker, ...
So now, I do this once a week. I would say I've gone from smart, successful baker to puuuure genius. :wave:

:ROFLOL: That's great! Beautiful! It illustrates many of the objections wonderfully. A bit unfair in spots, but no analogy is perfect.

The bit that is unfair is that normally the parks would close at 8 or 9 on most of these days, so the regular customers are only losing 1 or 2 hours. And the special event guests are getting up to 8 hours. It's as thought something is created from nothing!

Also the regular guests have more crowds between 4 and 7, but I think that is minor. It's usually on days that would be light crowds anyway.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

This is a No Slag Disney Zone, appreciate or else. You should be grateful Disney are prepared to let you give them your money such is their wonderfulness, I mean they have to deal with all the banking and credit card firms it is a right chore.

 

[KingStefan]

I'm not going to defend the parties....I enjoy them, but I do think they have gone WAY overboard with the number of them they have.

But the complaint that people have no idea about the parties and they get caught off gaurd, and it ruins their day or trip, etc...etc....is just not valid, in my opinion.

I really do not know what more Disney could do to let guests know.:shrug:

The park hours are on the website.

When you check in to your hotel you get a times guide with park hours for the week.

There are signs at the entrance to the MK with the party dates.

When you arrive at the park, you can get a times guide for the day with the park hours on it.

Realistically, what more can they do?

I mean there comes a point where people have to be a bit more responsible on finding out the park hours for their trip. Even if you somehow do not know about the party itself, you should still know what time the MK is closing on the day you choose to go there.

And you do not have to be crazy, detailed plannners like some of us are(myself included) to find out park hours!

To me, this is just common sense. Even the average guest who does little or no planning should find out park hours before they go.:hammer:

I understand your point. But there is no way that you can say that them being caught off guard is not valid. Because the fact is that it happens. It happens enough to be a problem.

I don't know what else can be done. I'm not a communications expert. However, as I've said on other posts, I believe that WDW publicity is trying to find a balance between publicizing enough to get good attendance at the special events, but not quite enough to emphasize the negative aspect to people who wouldn't be otherwise interested. It doesn't seem that people being caught unawares is a priority.

They don't want to make too big a deal out of it, because it would make people feel like they're being cheated out of a couple of hours at the parks. They publicize it just enough so that they can say, well we put up signs and we gave you a schedule - you should have paid more attention. I'm sorry, for me it's just not good enough. It walks the fine line on this side of ethical, imo.

 

[Thessair]

They publicize it just enough so that they can say, well we put up signs and we gave you a schedule - you should have paid more attention. I'm sorry, for me it's just not good enough. It walks the fine line on this side of ethical, imo.

I fail to see how the practice is even remotely close to walking "the fine line on this side of ethical". That seems a bit over the top to me. The massive signs at the front of the Magic Kingdom alone should be a good clue that something is going on. Resort guests are given full schedules at check-in and every non-Disney hotel I've stayed at in the area has schedules available as well. Could they do more, sure, but what exactly do you want to see? Announcements over PAs? Even bigger signs? No matter what Disney does they're going to get blasted for 'not doing enough'.

Guests have to take some responsibility for their own vacations. It's ridiculous to assume that any theme park or vacation destination should have to spoon feed their visitors. Calling their behavior almost unethical because travelers are too lazy to look into things for themselves is absurd. Yes, Disney bears some responsibility for informing guests of the park schedule. But the guests have just as much responsibility to check into operating hours for themselves.

 

[MousDad]

You may think that they offer too many parties, but I hardly think they are riping off the public. The park doesn't always stay open to 11:00 in the off season and closes early on other days due to different events. And no, it's not a huge secerate. It's on the web-site months in advnace and on the times guides that are given to people when they check into their hotel.

No, no, no - I would never describe the parties as a "rip off." I much prefer the term "creative currency extraction."

 

[wannab@dis]

I understand your point. But there is no way that you can say that them being caught off guard is not valid. Because the fact is that it happens.

I assume you can show empirical data on the occurrence rate? I'm sorry, I just don't see it as a big issue. I know people that are the "once in a few years" visitors and they check hours, event listings, parade times, fireworks times, etc.

It happens enough to be a problem.

Wow... now you have stretched your opinion into a statement of fact! :brick:

I don't know what else can be done. I'm not a communications expert. However, as I've said on other posts, I believe that WDW publicity is trying to find a balance between publicizing enough to get good attendance at the special events, but not quite enough to emphasize the negative aspect to people who wouldn't be otherwise interested. It doesn't seem that people being caught unawares is a priority.

The special hard ticket events are advertised heavily. Television/radio commercials, web ads, CRO mentions, etc. Park hours are advertised extensively, up to SIX months in advance. They are in the times guides in every resort, shop, park; on their TV stations, park entrances. What more could they do?

They don't want to make too big a deal out of it, because it would make people feel like they're being cheated out of a couple of hours at the parks. They publicize it just enough so that they can say, well we put up signs and we gave you a schedule - you should have paid more attention. I'm sorry, for me it's just not good enough.

It's heavily publicized... what more do you want them to do?

It walks the fine line on this side of ethical, imo.

:brick::hammer::brick::hammer:

I have a feeling you are just harping about this to have something to post... maybe you just feel the need to create some issue out of nothing. Cause, that's about the only thing that makes sense.

But, if you REALLY are this upset about the hard ticket events, then please, send Disney an email or call them and voice your displeasure. I would think that would actually have a little better chance of helping those thousands of poor, unfortunate souls :lookaroun that are left hanging at the gate without access to the elite parties.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Lets hear it for the ubber fans, its a tough job but somebodys got to do it, and its tough wear on the lips not to mention dealing with the odd misplaced emission when your puckered up.

Merf II if ever I saw one.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Wow!! I am sure glad I stopped reading this thread a while ago. I figured I would pop in and see what was going on now and I see we have ethical issues.:shrug::hammer::brick:

These parties are held during the slow times of the year when MK closes at 8:00 PM the latest anyway. Also the park used to close at 6:00 PM for an hour of transition between regular operating hours to party time. That proceedure changed in 04' and the park now closes at 7:00 PM so the typical day guest that will not join the party will have a little more time.

The parties are definately a way for WDW to make more money during a slower time of the year. I wonder why most people don't complain about the short lines or cheaper hotel rates during the slow times?:hammer:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Wow!! I am sure glad I stopped reading this thread a while ago. I figured I would pop in and see what was going on now and I see we have ethical issues.:shrug::hammer::brick:

These parties are held during the slow times of the year when MK closes at 8:00 PM the latest anyway. Also the park used to close at 6:00 PM for an hour of transition between regular operating hours to party time. That proceedure changed in 04' and the park now closes at 7:00 PM so the typical day guest that will not join the party will have a little more time.

The parties are definately a way for WDW to make more money during a slower time of the year. I wonder why most people don't complain about the short lines or cheaper hotel rates during the slow times?:hammer:

Here we go again, some people and facts. :shrug:

 

[KingStefan]

I fail to see how the practice is even remotely close to walking "the fine line on this side of ethical". That seems a bit over the top to me...

Perhaps you are right - that is a bit over the top. Let's just say that it doesn't fully live up to the Disney ethic.

The point I was trying to make is this. Every company employee has an obligation ultimately to maximize the present value of the future worth of the company to it's owners. This includes the WDW executives in charge of planning special events and communicating the details and implications of these special events to people, including prospective hard-ticket buyers, regular guests, and the general public.

Now, as far as planning things out goes, IMO they've done a great job of generating extra income with these things, and they've done so at a minimal expense to the regular guests.

For the communication end of it, here's my take. If I put myself in the place of a decision maker in this regard, I say to myself, how can I communicate clearly without ticking people off that the park is closing early, and at the same time promote ticket sales to the event? I would want to promote the event and make sure people were aware of the park hours enough to cover myself, and allow those alert people to plan properly, without saying "hey, look everyone, I'm taking away two of your twelve hours in the park, and I'm charging you the same amount".

And this is approximately what they've done. So one can hardly blame them for that, because they are attempting to act in the best interest of the company's owners.

However, there is an unintended side effect. By communicating the early closure with some degree of appropriate subtlety (in order not to publicize a negative aspcct of a product - something which is always undesirable), it has confused some ordinary visitors especially those who do not frequent theme parks or amusement parks. Most visitors are savy and get the message. Maybe they aren't too happy about it, but they accept it for what it is and get over it, and plan appropriately.

Some guests, however, and not just stupid or lazy or foreign people, are confused by the message. They don't "get it", that the park is closing early for them to allow a special extra-ticket event to take place. Until they are caught unawares. Then they are angry.

So, this unintended side effect has the result that some people are disappointed. You can make any judgement you want on those people, but the facts remain as they are. You have dissatisfied customers. That is never good in marketing.

Now, you can say all you want that the guest has to take some responsiblity in the matter, but the fact remains is that you have an unsatisfied customer, and it is never acceptable to use that as an excuse not to do anything. Can you imagine any company being successful in the long run that does deals with a customer satisfaction issue (not an individual customer, but a widespread satisfaction issue) by saying it was the customer's fault and sweeping it under the rug?

So that is all I am saying. The proof is in the pudding, and when there are a fair amount of guests taken by surprise, it means that the communication campaigne is not working. You can say that those customers should have taken more responsibility until the cows come home, but it's not going to change the facts.

Back to the original flow of the post: WDW has a great reputation for keeping every guest happy. If they give that up, they give up one of their most valuable assets. That does not serve to maximize the value of the company's future worth to the owners. Therefore, it is in WDW's best interest to fix the problem of people being taken by surprise.

 

[wannab@dis]

but the facts remain as they are. You have dissatisfied customers.

but the fact remains is that you have an unsatisfied customer,

The proof is in the pudding, and when there are a fair amount of guests taken by surprise,

but it's not going to change the facts.

Therefore, it is in WDW's best interest to fix the problem of people being taken by surprise.

Please don't take offense at the selective parsing of your post... but I wanted to get at the crux of this issue. You seem to think there's some percentage of people that are upset. You keep making statements about FACTS, but yet I've not seen anything to back up those statements.

I have no doubt that some percentage of people are caught unaware and some percentage of those people react negatively. My question for you is simple... what are those percentages? Do you think they even break the single digits? It appears you think they are high enough to be problematic. I have no way of knowing the numbers, but my GUESS would be the percentages are inconsequential.

I've had to leave the parks because of special events (once was a corporate event that was only publicized by a notice outside the gate -- not a hard ticket event) and have NEVER felt "ripped off" in the least. They were simply closing an hour or so earlier than normal. I simply went to another park.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Please don't take offense at the selective parsing of your post... but I wanted to get at the crux of this issue. You seem to think there's some percentage of people that are upset. You keep making statements about FACTS, but yet I've not seen anything to back up those statements.

I have no doubt that some percentage of people are caught unaware and some percentage of those people react negatively. My question for you is simple... what are those percentages? Do you think they even break the single digits? It appears you think they are high enough to be problematic. I have no way of knowing the numbers, but my GUESS would be the percentages are inconsequential.

I've had to leave the parks because of special events (once was a corporate event that was only publicized by a notice outside the gate -- not a hard ticket event) and have NEVER felt "ripped off" in the least. They were simply closing an hour or so earlier than normal. I simply went to another park.

May I suggest that your guess is based on a bias towards a view that you hold.

However there is no doubt that its all wonderful.

 

[wannab@dis]

May I suggest that your guess is based on a bias towards a view that you hold.

Agreed

However there is no doubt that its all wonderful.

And again, agreed. :lol:

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Agreed

And again, agreed. :lol:

Now theres a first

 

[happymom52003]

So what about the family that has always gone in the summer when the park is open most nights until 11:00p.m....then they decide to go during an off season when the park closes at 8:00, but they did not check the park hours so they get mad when the park closes at 8:00.

Is this also somehow not their fault?:shrug:

Or what about the family that really, really wanted to see Spectromagic, but did not bother to check the times so they had no idea it did not run every night so they missed it. Is this also not their fault?

Are guests who go to the MK on non spectro nights getting ripped off since Disney does not run spectro everynight?

I'm sure I could think of many more examples....from Disney and the real world.

I'm sorry, but the "I didn't know" excuse just does not hold up.