MK Testing New Entry Scans

[JET12monorail]

Wow!

 

[MickeyTigg]

Edwardtc- I hope that when we finally get to the point when your every single move is tracked and available for public scrutiny, that you remember what you just said. Because it's people like you who are slowly allowing us to get to that point in the name of "homeland security". You can never ever make someplace 100% terrorist-proof, I'm sorry. But you can safeguard people's sense of individual liberties, something this country was founded on. If it really does read on the back of sports tickets that my face is going to be constantly scanned against a database of criminals, then i won't be attending any more sporting events. Period. And no, I don't have my fingerprints taken at work. Never have. Credit card receipts in an adult bookstore are only seen by you and the credit company- we're talking about public view practically of this information. Having your fingerprint taken everywhere and put into some public database where most people can see everything you've done.....can you imagine someone pulling up your name and seeing that you bought some whiskey last week and telling your employer, etc etc? Or quietly telling your priest that you made a condom purchase? I don't think you guys realize the implications that this could have if fully implemented. Please go read the book 1984. It will scare the pants off of you, and it should. A good film in this genre is THX 1138, George Lucas' first film.
I'm not against Disney implementing the biometrics, that's not what I'm talking about, and I think the biometrics are safe enough because they don't completely identify you. But I am against technologies like fingerprinting and face recognition everywhere you go, because that's not a good road to go down.

Paranoia is a dangerous thing. It must be hell living with the fear of the boogie man around every corner.

A healthy scepticism is fine...but this is beyond that.

It's not 1955 anymore....when you take off the tin-foil hat and open up your door, you and Art Bell will find that the people you were protecting and allowing to infiltrate this country will have taken it away from you.

 

[badrew]

I still think those readers are psychological and don't actually do anything

They really work, my brother and my son switched their tickets and they got the red "X", once they switched the tickets again it let them through.

 

[wdwforus]

Lets see, for every two people talking, you would need either a computer program utilizing highly advanced software, or another person listening in. Since it would be utterly impossible for a computer system, no matter how advanced, to complete a real time review of the billions of phone calls that go on daily in the US, not to mention the trillions around the world, you would have to have a database capable of storing huge amounts of information. You would also need a huge number of people doing nothing but reviewing this information.

Yes I am sure, no one has been listening in on my conversations....

I agree and by the way sorry to her about your Mom

 

[Tom]

Edwardtc- I hope that when we finally get to the point when your every single move is tracked and available for public scrutiny, that you remember what you just said. Because it's people like you who are slowly allowing us to get to that point in the name of "homeland security". You can never ever make someplace 100% terrorist-proof, I'm sorry. But you can safeguard people's sense of individual liberties, something this country was founded on. If it really does read on the back of sports tickets that my face is going to be constantly scanned against a database of criminals, then i won't be attending any more sporting events. Period. And no, I don't have my fingerprints taken at work. Never have. Credit card receipts in an adult bookstore are only seen by you and the credit company- we're talking about public view practically of this information. Having your fingerprint taken everywhere and put into some public database where most people can see everything you've done.....can you imagine someone pulling up your name and seeing that you bought some whiskey last week and telling your employer, etc etc? Or quietly telling your priest that you made a condom purchase? I don't think you guys realize the implications that this could have if fully implemented. Please go read the book 1984. It will scare the pants off of you, and it should. A good film in this genre is THX 1138, George Lucas' first film.
I'm not against Disney implementing the biometrics, that's not what I'm talking about, and I think the biometrics are safe enough because they don't completely identify you. But I am against technologies like fingerprinting and face recognition everywhere you go, because that's not a good road to go down.

The measures put in place by the government and private institutions (such as Disney and sporting arenas) are ONLY put in place to continue to protect our freedoms. As much as you'd like to think, there is no conspiracy to track every move of every person in the US. The government has neither the time nor the funds nor the interest to do this.

The [insert swear word here] people who write and distribute viruses and spyware know more about you than the government or WDW. The more spam you get, the more "someone" knows about you, your habits, your browsing, and your purchases. Those people are the ones you should fear.

My fingerprints are NOT in a public database, anywhere. They're in the FBI database, which is not browsable on the internet for every Joe Schmoe. My credit card purchases are WAY more available, since banks sell "purchase trends" to companies hoping to capitalize on your buying habits.

My picture taken while waiting in line for the Super Bowl is not being saved in a big database of "Innocent People We Can Stalk Later". It simply scans every face, LIVE, and compares them with a database of faces - the end.

I still don't see how using undeniable personal identifying traits to grant admission is a violation of civil liberties. Whether it be a fingerprint comparison, or a retinal scan, or voice activation - these are all things that are already "public" since you walk around with them exposed all day. Not one of these verification methods can be used to go get your bank account records, or credit card statements, or anything else - especially by someone like WDW, who doesn't have the means to obtain that info in any way. They're simply proving that you are you by means of personal traits that you can't alter (without significant work).

And for the conspiracy theorists out there, I think you're giving the government too much credit - probably from having read too many books and having seen too many movies. Take the whole "wire-tapping" issue recently - the government didn't use fingerprints and top secret CSI-type technology to obtain those records. They called the big phone companies and said, "Hey, can we have your phone call records? Pretty please!?" Some companies said, "Oh crap, you're the government, sure, here they are!" while a few others said, "Hmmm, we don't think that we have to do that, so, no" to which the government guy on the phone said, "Oh, dang! Well, thanks anyway, have a great day." WOW, now that sounds like a conspiracy if you ask me!

 

[Chape19714]

The measures put in place by the government and private institutions (such as Disney and sporting arenas) are ONLY put in place to continue to protect our freedoms. As much as you'd like to think, there is no conspiracy to track every move of every person in the US. The government has neither the time nor the funds nor the interest to do this.

The [insert swear word here] people who write and distribute viruses and spyware know more about you than the government or WDW. The more spam you get, the more "someone" knows about you, your habits, your browsing, and your purchases. Those people are the ones you should fear.

My fingerprints are NOT in a public database, anywhere. They're in the FBI database, which is not browsable on the internet for every Joe Schmoe. My credit card purchases are WAY more available, since banks sell "purchase trends" to companies hoping to capitalize on your buying habits.

My picture taken while waiting in line for the Super Bowl is not being saved in a big database of "Innocent People We Can Stalk Later". It simply scans every face, LIVE, with a database of faces - the end.

I still don't see how using undeniable personal identifying traits to grant admission is a violation of civil liberties. Whether it be a fingerprint comparison, or a retinal scan, or voice activation - these are all things that are already "public" since you walk around with them exposed all day. Not one of these verification methods can be used to go get your bank account records, or credit card statements, or anything else - especially by someone like WDW, who doesn't have the means to obtain that info in any way. They're simply proving that you are you by means of personal traits that you can't alter (without significant work).

And for the conspiracy theorists out there, I think you're giving the government too much credit - probably from having read too many books and having seen too many movies. Take the whole "wire-tapping" issue recently - the government didn't use fingerprints and top secret CSI-type technology to obtain those records. They called the big phone companies and said, "Hey, can we have your phone call records? Pretty please!?" Some companies said, "Oh crap, you're the government, sure, here they are!" while a few others said, "Hmmm, we don't think that we have to do that, so, no" to which the government guy on the phone said, "Oh, dang! Well, thanks anyway, have a great day." WOW, now that sounds like a conspiracy if you ask me!

I've been trying to stay out of this, but EdwardTC, that was a brillant post! Bottom line is Homeland Security doesn't care about you unless you're a threat. The entire wire tapping has been blown out of proportion by the press, so it's both the press' fault for doing that and the public's fault for not finding reliable information.
END OF RANT

Anyhow, I could really care less what I have to do to get into the MK, I'll Still go. And if you don't like what they're doing, then it's no loss to them to not admit you into the park, so you are just hurting yourself over a far-fetched fear.

 

[Dayma]

All I care about is getting rid of those current "two fingered" scan machines. Everytime I use them I have problems. My wife has pictures and videos of me getting tuck their trying to get it to work....lmao

 

[lewisc]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Chape19714, this post is moronic, not brilliant.

The purpose of biometric screening has nothing to do with security or our freedoms. It's to prevent guests from sharing their AP and from sharing/selling/giving unused pass days. MYW tickets give guests extra days for almost free to use but not to transfer.

Using photos slows down the line and inevitable only very few get looked at. Biometric screening checks everyone.

I don't have a problem with Disney using biometric screening, I don't cheat with tickets, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SECURITY.

The measures put in place by the government and private institutions (such as Disney and sporting arenas) are ONLY put in place to continue to protect our freedoms. As much as you'd like to think, there is no conspiracy to track every move of every person in the US. The government has neither the time nor the funds nor the interest to do this.

 

[Chape19714]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Chape19714, this post is moronic, not brilliant.

The purpose of biometric screening has nothing to do with security or our freedoms. It's to prevent guests from sharing their AP and from sharing/selling/giving unused pass days. MYW tickets give guests extra days for almost free to use but not to transfer.

Using photos slows down the line and inevitable only very few get looked at. Biometric screening checks everyone.

I don't have a problem with Disney using biometric screening, I don't cheat with tickets, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SECURITY.

I completely understand your standpoint, although it is not mine, is certanily is a respectable view. I honeslty don't belive the current system is used for security reasons, i was more refering to the new rumored version. However, Disney will NOT EVER put guests in any danger, and will go to great lenths to prevent danger in the parks.

 

[Tom]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with Chape19714, this post is moronic, not brilliant.

The purpose of biometric screening has nothing to do with security or our freedoms. It's to prevent guests from sharing their AP and from sharing/selling/giving unused pass days. MYW tickets give guests extra days for almost free to use but not to transfer.

Using photos slows down the line and inevitable only very few get looked at. Biometric screening checks everyone.

I don't have a problem with Disney using biometric screening, I don't cheat with tickets, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SECURITY.

If you look in my first post, you'll see that I addressed the fact that WDW would implement this system mainly to prevent unauthorized use of tickets, with security probably following a close second.

My latter post, which you quoted, is simply furthering and clarifying my initial argument, being that this system, if implemented, is in NO WAY a violation of our civil liberties or freedoms. I merely used this system, be it at WDW or a jewelry store or a government office building, to demonstrate my point of view on it as a whole. I fully understand WDW's reasoning for implementing it, which should be clearly understood after having read both of my posts.

 

[mmartelli]

Yeah, but you can make it a lot more diffilcut for terrorists to strike. "Every single move is tracked"? Don't you think that's extreme?



If you are killed by terrorists, how would you enjoy your civil liberties? If there's another major terrorist incident, the same civil liberties activists will be yelling for more safeguards against terrorism.



Then there's better seat availability for those who don't mind minor inconveniences.



Again, I think that's rather extreme. The US Congress wouldn't allow it because many Congresspeople are more levelheaded. I honestly don't think a 1984-style situation will become a reality for the US, so I think you can calm down.



No, it's not a good road to go down, but is it a reality? Will it be a reality in the near future? I don't think so. The current face recognition systems edwardtc is talking doesn't exist everywhere and only at high-target places, like sporting arenas.

Ok Mr. Neoconservative....you deserve no liberties at all. If you think that giving up all your liberties so you can be safe is the wise thing then you trully deserve none at all. Government loves to make criminals out of people, thats how they stay in buisness (by reminding us why we need them...they make us "safe" therfore we need them). They will use this system to get other kinds of "criminals." Just think this thru man...it is a crime today to day to say anything that is not politically correct...imagine a government that can listen in, see every person at all times...they could find you and imprison you for a hate crime next time you say something off color, or tell a bad joke. Its not paranoia to believe this...they do it all the time! How many liberals have gotten decent people in trouble. Just imagine this network of cameras and bioscans if it is under the control of somone like Hilary Clinton...just think man!!!!!

I want to be fare to you and respond to you in a civil manner, however since this is a WDW forum I dont want to anoy people by discussing these issues. If you would like to discuss this further you can PM me. Thanks.

 

[mmartelli]

Just don't be suprised if you stick your head out of your door one day and find that your country is gone. Civil liberties mean nothing if the guardian and provider of those liberties ceases to exist.

While you are right that 100% safety is impossible, we can make significant strides to increase our protection while preserving the freedoms that make our great nation unique."

Freedom is FREE dude...the founding fathers believed that GOD created our civil liberties, and therefore GOD was the guardian and taker away of these. It is not man's role to give them or take them. You sir, have never read the declaration of independance. Our freedom does not come from Bush or any other servant of the state, it comes from GOD. But perhapse you were too busy stocking up on ductape to notice that.

Freedom is FREE, it wouldnt be freedom if it cost something.:brick: If you think this whole homeland security BS is making us safer then you probably also think the Yeti is real in EE. Its all a joke man. the only way we could ever be safe is when our govrnment stops angering people across the globe. But again this is a WDW forum so Ill let off...PM me if you wish to continue this argument...I am not trying to back off from an argument, I just dont think this is the place for it.

 

[Iakona]

Ok Mr. Neoconservative....you deserve no liberties at all. If you think that giving up all your liberties so you can be safe is the wise thing then you trully deserve none at all. Government loves to make criminals out of people, thats how they stay in buisness (by reminding us why we need them...they make us "safe" therfore we need them). They will use this system to get other kinds of "criminals." Just think this thru man...it is a crime today to day to say anything that is not politically correct...imagine a government that can listen in, see every person at all times...they could find you and imprison you for a hate crime next time you say something off color, or tell a bad joke. Its not paranoia to believe this...they do it all the time! How many liberals have gotten decent people in trouble. Just imagine this network of cameras and bioscans if it is under the control of somone like Hilary Clinton...just think man!!!!!

I want to be fare to you and respond to you in a civil manner, however since this is a WDW forum I dont want to anoy people by discussing these issues. If you would like to discuss this further you can PM me. Thanks.

Are they going to send Black helicopters at night to get you?:lookaroun

If what you just stated is not paranoia then it is extremely close!

I have yet to see anyone prosecuted and imprisoned for telling an off-color joke.

No one has ever said here that they wish to give up all their civil liberties.

While this conversation has bordered on a political discussion you went and pushed it right over the line. :brick:

It is very simple, WDW is not a government, they are a private entity and have the right to insitute these systems.

 

[mmartelli]

Are they going to send Black helicopters at night to get you?:lookaroun

If what you just stated is not paranoia then it is extremely close!

I have yet to see anyone prosecuted and imprisoned for telling an off-color joke.

No one has ever said here that they wish to give up all their civil liberties.

While this conversation has bordered on a political discussion you went and pushed it right over the line. :brick:

It is very simple, WDW is not a government, they are a private entity and have the right to insitute these systems.

Dude, I never said WDW shouldnt use them. I just wish more people out there distrusted government. It is not patriotic to put faith in government, not by the 1776 definition of patriot. Read up on the revolution, you might like what you find. But like I said, PM me if you want to continue

 

[Iakona]

Dude, I never said WDW shouldnt use them. I just wish more people out there distrusted government. It is not patriotic to put faith in government, not by the 1776 definition of patriot. Read up on the revolution, you might like what you find. But like I said, PM me if you want to continue

Genius, I am a PhD. candidate in Political Science. My dissertation is going to be looking at Patriotism vs. Nationalism in the Post-911 period. So guess what, I know a little about the Revolution, the history of this country and how the government works, or "stays in business" as your paranoid theory suggests.

You have no idea what you are talking about and I doubt you have any idea what most people in America think of their government. It is incredibly more complicated than you seem to think.

You are a 22 year old, libertarian, architectural student that seems unable to abide by the rules of this forum. A qualifier at the end of your post where you take a shot and then say, but I don't think we should discuss politics here, is incredibly disingenuous.

 

[spoodles]

Freedom is FREE dude...
Freedom is FREE...

Wow. Brilliance.

Besides your political naivety, you have some forum etiquette issues as well.

 

[jsfra209]

If they do the fingerprint scan I will have to join a lawsuit in this. Either that or i wont be going to Disney.

Why, what are you trying to hide? It really is no big deal.. unless your , like, an escaped felon or something. (no offense)

 

[lewisc]

Why, what are you trying to hide? It really is no big deal.. unless your , like, an escaped felon or something. (no offense)

Disney is using biometrics to prevent ticket fraud and misuse. I agree some posters in this thread are paranoid and certainly has nothing to do with what Disney is doing.

That said a lot of people don't want to have all their activities/travel logged NOT JUST ESCAPED FELONS. Some people lie regarding sick days for example. A person surprising a spouse with a gift might not want them knowing what store they recently shopped at. Some people might lie to loved ones regarding going to a doctor or medical lab.

This isn't just aluminum foil people type of stuff. Most current cell phones are GPS enabled and there are services that will allow you to track the phone.

 

[mmartelli]

Genius, I am a PhD. candidate in Political Science. My dissertation is going to be looking at Patriotism vs. Nationalism in the Post-911 period. So guess what, I know a little about the Revolution, the history of this country and how the government works, or "stays in business" as your paranoid theory suggests.

You have no idea what you are talking about and I doubt you have any idea what most people in America think of their government. It is incredibly more complicated than you seem to think.

You are a 22 year old, libertarian, architectural student that seems unable to abide by the rules of this forum. A qualifier at the end of your post where you take a shot and then say, but I don't think we should discuss politics here, is incredibly disingenuous.

You know nothing of the spririt of 1776. But let us continue this elswehere. This is not the place for political discussion....PM me, Im up for a debate.

Since you have taken a personal attack at me I shall adress this here. I was a bigtime political leader on my campus President of the Nationally recognized and awarded College Republicans of Roger Williams University. During my time as club president I dined with famous political leaders like Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Bill Frist, governer of RI Don Carcieri and more so I got a front row view of our political system sir. I have given you a way to chat with me about this in another method. I do not wish to just leave this be, if you wish we can discuss this further, how is that disengenous?

A spirit of 1776 patriot distrusted government; loved family, home town, and had no want to form one big government. Perhapse you forgot how the Patriots acted at the "Intollerable Acts" of the British king? Boston Tea Party ring a bell? They were furious at the idea of being told what to do when they believed they were sovereign individuals. May I remind you that in the years leading up to the revolution men like Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson wrote extensive documents outlining a unique liberty...a uniquly American liberty.

We live in very opressive times sir, times that Jefferson and Paine would not tollerate. If you are going to research your PHD I suggest you look at Jefferson's 1790's letters on the Virgini Plan. they outline his philosophies of Liberty. You might want to check out the writings of Lew Rockwell or Murry Rothbard as well, they are modern day libertarians (Jefferson is considered the firts Libertarian).

How can you tell me that this society is Patriotic? We know nothing of the ideals that founded America. Waving a flag and supporting the troops doesnt make you a patriot. A patriot believes in limited government, and not a big national state with overwhelming powers. A true patriot would not pledge alegiants to the State, but to his family, to his god of choice, to his home town. Read up on it brother and perhapse we can both learn something.

 

[mmartelli]

Wow. Brilliance.

Besides your political naivety, you have some forum etiquette issues as well.

Well now I bet you have a sticker on your car that says "Freedom isn't FREE" Perhaps you need a class in the meaning of words. if something costs then it is not Free. The bumper sticker should read "Opression takes work." You cant have it both ways...you can not be free and forced to do anything against your will like pay taxes, go to jurry duty...etc. It is not a free society when you are forced to do things by the state. Just think about all the things you do in one day, I bet that nearly everything you do has some kind of government restictions on it. Now how free is that?

Try to start up a new buisness? can you do it without government?
Try to buy something from a store? Can you do it without government?
Try using water or power (municipal utlities) Can you do it without government?

the list goes on...so who is Naive? one who believes that we are free and that to be free we must pay....or one who understands that to be free costs nothing? We would be plenty free if the government just got off our backs. Just think about it...if you pay taxes or if you own a small business, ever tried to buy a car or work in TV/Radio you know how oppressed we are.