Rumor MK Space Mountain REVISED in 2026? (One track? side-by-side seating?)

[flynnibus]

Vehicle size and dispatch interval DETERMINE your result. The ride length is irrelevant.

It is relevant - because you can't determine how many ride vehicles you can have without knowing the ride's physical path and how the vehicles traverse it. LENGTH = DISTANCE. These variables are dependent through their secondary relationship to each other.
1 - Dispatch Intervals are constrained by the vehicle's journey on the physical paths
2- You can't arbitrarily decide how many ride vehicles to have without considering the ride path
3 - You can't decide your dispatch constraints without knowing how many vehicles you have and their interactions along the ride path.

No the ride's length itself is not how you define your dispatch constraints - but it is relevant because your vehicle count is dependent on the physical path in a closed loop system. And your dispatch constraints are dependent on vehicle count.

This is basic freaking linear alegbra people. The variables are not independent. This is a system of equations. You can't just change these numbers to whatever you want without considering how their dependencies interact. This is the very definition of RELEVANCE.

If I tell you that a ride is 10 minutes long and has 20 person vehicles you can not determine capacity or throughput. But if I tell you an attraction has 20 person vehicles and can dispatch a minimum of every 60 seconds you can.

And you can't know if you can physically dispatch a minimum of every 60 seconds without knowing the interdependent system of how many vehicles you have and can they operate on the same loop.

You are staring at the end result without considering what constrained the numbers you are trying to use.

You can't take your 60 second dispatch, half the size of the physical loop.. and expect the 60 second number to still be valid just because you picked it as the number you wanted.

 

[peter11435]

It is relevant - because you can't determine how many ride vehicles you can have without knowing the ride's physical path and how the vehicles traverse it. LENGTH = DISTANCE. These variables are dependent through their secondary relationship to each other.
1 - Dispatch Intervals are constrained by the vehicle's journey on the physical paths
2- You can't arbitrarily decide how many ride vehicles to have without considering the ride path
3 - You can't decide your dispatch constraints without knowing how many vehicles you have and their interactions along the ride path.

No the ride's length itself is not how you define your dispatch constraints - but it is relevant because your vehicle count is dependent on the physical path in a closed loop system. And your dispatch constraints are dependent on vehicle count.

This is basic freaking linear alegbra people. The variables are not independent. This is a system of equations. You can't just change these numbers to whatever you want without considering how their dependencies interact. This is the very definition of RELEVANCE.


And you can't know if you can physically dispatch a minimum of every 60 seconds without knowing the interdependent system of how many vehicles you have and can they operate on the same loop.

You are staring at the end result without considering what constrained the numbers you are trying to use.

You can't take your 60 second dispatch, half the size of the physical loop.. and expect the 60 second number to still be valid just because you picked it as the number you wanted.

The length of the ride is not a constraint or a benefit. It doesn’t dictate ride capacity. A ride with a short length can have a very low capacity or a very high capacity. A long ride can have a very high capacity or a very low capacity.

The number of ride vehicles is obviously dictated by the length of the ride path and ride system constraints.

Halving the size of the physical loop doesnt mean your dispatch interval needs to change. It just means there will be less vehicles on the ride at any given time. Dispatch interval isn’t dictated by track length or cycle time. For tracked attractions It’s dictated by ride system constraints and load times.

 

[gorillaball]

The length of the ride is not a constraint or a benefit. It doesn’t dictate ride capacity. A ride with a short length can have a very low capacity or a very high capacity. A long ride can have a very high capacity or a very low capacity.

The number of ride vehicles is obviously dictated by the length of the ride path and ride system constraints.

Halving the size of the physical loop doesnt mean your dispatch interval needs to change. It just means there will be less vehicles on the ride at any given time. Dispatch interval isn’t dictated by track length or cycle time. For tracked attractions It’s dictated by ride system constraints and load times.

This is entertaining. I do agree with you though. Put very simply > a ride vehicle dispatching every 1 minute w 10 people on it has a capacity of 600 per hour. It does not matter if that ride duration is 10 seconds or 10 minutes, it’s the SAME CAPACITY.

I do hear what Flynn is saying in one regard, I just think it’s an over complication of an unknown that also isn’t directly related to ride duration. True if you only have one break zone on a 10 minute ride you probably won’t dispatch every 1 minute. But ride duration alone has no direct impact on capacity, dispatch of riders does.

 

[Disone]

I have never found it to be that rough. For me, the worst part is trying to get out of the coaster, there is no easy way to do it

Agree. Getting out of the ride vehicle is just not a graceful experience.

 

[flynnibus]

The length of the ride is not a constraint or a benefit. It doesn’t dictate ride capacity. A ride with a short length can have a very low capacity or a very high capacity. A long ride can have a very high capacity or a very low capacity.

Do you even know what the word 'dependency' means? It doesn't mean DEFINE

Halving the size of the physical loop doesnt mean your dispatch interval needs to change. It just means there will be less vehicles on the ride at any given time

Which would do what? Oh yeah.. affect your "capacity or throughput" which you said had nothing to do with ride length. Well you just proved to yourself why it is relevant.

. Dispatch interval isn’t dictated by track length or cycle time. For tracked attractions It’s dictated by ride system constraints and load times.

"ride system constraints" -- which in your world has nothing to do with the actual ride... load stations just exist in perfect isolation!

This is comically bad. You don't have a clue.. you just know how to read metrics.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I can’t stress this enough. When it comes to tracked attractions with the ability to run multiple vehicles. Ride length is irrelevant when it comes to designing or determining attractions capacity/throughput. Guests per vehicle and dispatch interval are the factors Disney utilizes.

You’re conflating observation and design, working backwards from the outcome. Just because you can use the dispatch interval to work your way into the answer doesn’t mean that is where it starts.

THRC = (60 min/hr / Cycle Time) * Total Seats
Cycle Time = Load Time + Ride Time + Unload Time
Total Seats (aka Instantaneous Capacity) = Ride Vehicles * Seats per Ride Vehicle

This is the starting formula. One that is agnostic to attraction type, working for flat rides, tracked rides and shows. It is worked through from left to right. It also directly incorporates other metrics which are important to park programming and design. Cycle Time, as a function of Ride Time, ties into Attractions per Guest per Hour, which is an important metric in determining desired wait times, overall park capacity and the general experience of the park itself. People have different expectations based on attraction length. People expect to do more in an hour if a park has a bunch of small, short rides. It also influences how long they will spend at a park. While not as important as hourly capacity, it also includes Instantaneous Capacity, another metric which goes into the overall park analysis where there is a goal to have x number of people in an attraction at any given time.

This formula lets you start with a capacity goal, determine the scope of the experience (how long are people doing it) and then figure out how to achieve those goals. How many people are being dispatched at what frequency is dependent on the experience and other factors constraining the design. Dispatch frequency is ultimately a performance goal which is why it is what the park itself is going to utilize and measure.

If I tell you that a ride is 10 minutes long and has 20 person vehicles you can not determine capacity or throughput. But if I tell you an attraction has 20 person vehicles and can dispatch a minimum of every 60 seconds you can.

Because you’re observing, not creating. Just as the formula above can be used for various experiences, measuring dispatch is a uniform means of measuring throughput. But telling a designer they have to dispatch 20 people every minute is a completely arbitrary and useless starting point. Why can’t it be 40 people every two minutes or 1200 people all at once every hour? They all simplify down to 20 people per minute but are very different experiences. Those differences grow further when the ride time is included and all have vastly different design implications.

 

[flynnibus]

But ride duration alone has no direct impact on capacity, dispatch of riders does.

you literally can't define dispatch WITHOUT understanding how the cycle is timed and spaced. Once again, you all are taking the RESULT and acting like it was the starting point.

 

[peter11435]

Which would do what? Oh yeah.. affect your "capacity or throughput" which you said had nothing to do with ride length. Well you just proved to yourself why it is relevant.

Having less ride vehicles would not affect your capacity/throughput if your dispatch interval remained the same. Not at all. It would reduce your instantaneous capacity.

 

[gorillaball]

you literally can't define dispatch WITHOUT understanding how the cycle is timed and spaced. Once again, you all are taking the RESULT and acting like it was the starting point.

But it’s the result I’m after.

Let’s both go to a park and test our theories. I’ll measure capacity by sitting in one location and counting, you can go measure track length and count break zones, and we’ll see who has the most accurate answer.

 

[peter11435]

you literally can't define dispatch WITHOUT understanding how the cycle is timed and spaced. Once again, you all are taking the RESULT and acting like it was the starting point.

The point is that you originally claimed that doubling the length of Space Mountains track would result in decreased capacity. This is simply not true if current dispatch intervals e are maintained. Which obviously could be done by adding additional vehicles that the longer track would now be able to accommodate. There is no reason why a longer track needs to mean lower capacity.

 

[Tha Realest]

It looks like trains from both tracks have run over @peter11435 in this thread.

 

[peter11435]

It looks like trains from both tracks have run over @peter11435 in this thread.

Those trains derailed. They just think they are still on track.

 

[flynnibus]

But it’s the result I’m after.

Let’s both go to a park and test our theories. I’ll measure capacity by sitting in one location and counting, you can go measure track length and count break zones, and we’ll see who has the most accurate answer.

You can not tell the difference between measuring capacity of a design that is already done... vs what it means to actually set the parameters that DEFINE that capacity?

OMG...

 

[flynnibus]

The point is that you originally claimed that doubling the length of Space Mountains track would result in decreased capacity.

Quote where I said 'doubling the length' -- never did

This is simply not true if current dispatch intervals e are maintained. Which obviously could be done by adding additional vehicles that the longer track would now be able to accommodate. There is no reason why a longer track needs to mean lower capacity.

Yes there is - when you have longer track, but can't actually maintain the same dispatch interval! That's the freaking point - Dispatch is not just whatever number you want it to be!

 

[flynnibus]

no more from me.. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make one drink.

No wonder this country is so screwed up... people can't tell the difference between setting a value and reading one. Unreal.

 

[Vinnie Mac]

From the BTM Retrack Thread, courtesy of @TheCoasterNerd, found on ParkFans:
View attachment 845491

Link to discussion on ParkFans

All I know is that they better not touch that soundtrack...

 

[peter11435]

You can not tell the difference between measuring capacity of a design that is already done... vs what it means to actually set the parameters that DEFINE that capacity?

OMG...

What you seem to be missing is that minimum dispatch interval is not just observed. Yes, after an attraction is constructed operations may measure their achieved dispatch interval to determine how closely it matches the minimum designed dispatch interval. But the minimum dispatch interval is set and designed as part of the design process. The minimum dispatch interval is not defined by the length of the track. This isn’t just observation.

 

[peter11435]

no more from me.. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make one drink.

No wonder this country is so screwed up... people can't tell the difference between setting a value and reading one. Unreal.

Dispatch interval is not just read after the fact.

 

[peter11435]

Yes there is - when you have longer track, but can't actually maintain the same dispatch interval! That's the freaking point - Dispatch is not just whatever number you want it to be!

But having a longer track does not mean you can’t maintain the same dispatch interval. That’s why many Disney coasters with significantly different track lengths have the same dispatch interval. Dispatch interval is part of the design. Not something you end up with. Obviously you can’t just say I want it to be this and have it simply be, there are factors that manipulate dispatch interval, but track length or ride length is not directly one of them in a multi unit system.

 

[peter11435]

Quote where I said 'doubling the length' -- never did

If you go from 2 tracks to 1.. this is presumably so you have more room for your 1 track. Which people assume would be to have a longer ride. Even if you doubled the train capacity, but you extended the duration of the ride.. that would decrease hourly throughput.

When you go from two independently cycling rides to one double sized ride you increase the exposure to reduced throughput. A missed dispatch of a smaller train = less people impacted than a dispatch of a larger train. So the hit to your throughput is smaller. Two independent systems also means an interruption means less throughput is lost due to that interruption if only half of your capacity is impacted.