Rumor MK Space Mountain REVISED in 2026? (One track? side-by-side seating?)

[flynnibus]

Not necessarily.. it's all about dispatch times and train sizes, not ride length. As long as a single track, double capacity train is dispatched at the same average rate as the two current SM tracks, capacity will remain constant... even if the ride length is extended.

But dispatch times and ride length are not independent. Your presumption of 'same average rate' is the issue. You can't fill trains that aren't back yet. A longer cycle time without adding more trains or dispatches (presuming you weren't running optimal to start) will lower throughput. You basically can face 'train starvation' where you are waiting for a return if you don't extend the ride -enough- to allow more trains running.

We all know the optimal throughput is when the number of trains, blocks, duration, and dispatch are all matched up. But you can't distort any of those factors independently because of their mating.

And because of stupid human tricks.. we know the systems rarely run at full optimized rates.. and that disruptions are pretty much garunteed. So putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak.. pretty much garuntees an increased exposure to negatives.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ride length is not really relevant in discussing attraction capacity/throughput on tracked rides. What matters is the interval between dispatches and the amount of guests that can be sent in each dispatch.

Dispatch time is a function of cycle time. People focus on dispatch time because it’s the easy thing to see, but it’s more of a workaround. If you were actually doing the programming it would be based on cycle time.

 

[flynnibus]

What matters is the interval between dispatches and the amount of guests that can be sent in each dispatch.

Which is... not independent of ride length.. Coaster dispatch rates are a combination of block design, segment durations, and vehicle counts. All the pieces matter and are interwoven.

 

[Purduevian]

But dispatch times and ride length are not independent. Your presumption of 'same average rate' is the issue. You can't fill trains that aren't back yet. A longer cycle time without adding more trains or dispatches (presuming you weren't running optimal to start) will lower throughput. You basically can face 'train starvation' where you are waiting for a return if you don't extend the ride -enough- to allow more trains running.

We all know the optimal throughput is when the number of trains, blocks, duration, and dispatch are all matched up. But you can't distort any of those factors independently because of their mating.

And because of stupid human tricks.. we know the systems rarely run at full optimized rates.. and that disruptions are pretty much garunteed. So putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak.. pretty much garuntees an increased exposure to negatives.

Not necessarily.. it's all about dispatch times and train sizes, not ride length. As long as a single track, double capacity train is dispatched at the same average rate as the two current SM tracks, capacity will remain constant... even if the ride length is extended.

In order to dispatch at the same average rate, the density of block brakes would also need to remain the same throughout the track length. The number of total trains would also need to scale appropriately

you cut off my post when you quoted...

If designed properly, there is no reason a double wide train configuration and 2 independent single wide train configured coasters can not have the same capacity, regardless of ride length.

I'm pretty sure nemo and HM have the same capacity even though HM is a much longer ride.

 

[DisneyFanatic12]

As much as Space is brutal on your back lol & a tight squeeze to get in for your legs other than a retrack (because so many have claimed its needed and parts are welded together) i wouldnt want a smooth track. The ride is what it is and honestly unique for Fla and fun for a ton of people. The end is what gets me going around in circles multiple times lol. Disney feel free to eliminate that aspect but keep everything else

I agree. Do people get turned away for being too tall to ride Space Mountain? Yes. Can it be painful? Yes.

But at the same time, the ride cars are so unique and the jerkiness of the ride is one of my favorite parts. I’m almost certain that a new coaster would be no where near as jerky as our Space Mountain, and that loss would make it so much less fun and exciting.

 

[flynnibus]

you cut off my post when you quoted...

If designed properly, there is no reason a double wide train configuration and 2 independent single wide train configured coasters can not have the same capacity, regardless of ride length.

Yes, because I found it rather pointless and didn't feel the need to respond to such a "if nothing else mattered.." retort.

Yes, if you take a blank piece of paper, pick only the constraints you want, you can achieve whatever results you want. But we're talking about 'does length impact' throughput. Yes, it does, especially when comparing to a baseline.

The original claim was suggesting only the ride vehicle capacity would change and result would be equivalent. Why on earth would you take out half of your coasters to put back.. the exact same thing just bigger cars? Not gonna happen. But the overall space constraints are still in place.. limiting what you can do.

I'm pretty sure nemo and HM have the same capacity even though HM is a much longer ride.

Ehh.. now you're talking apples and tomatoes. An omni mover throughput is dictated purely by it's ride vehicles and speed. Length is purely a ride duration factor for them - not a throughput constraint.

 

[peter11435]

Dispatch time is a function of cycle time. People focus on dispatch time because it’s the easy thing to see, but it’s more of a workaround. If you were actually doing the programming it would be based on cycle time.

I can assure you. That’s not true. Cycle time and guests per vehicle do not paint the whole picture. Disney absolutely uses dispatch internal and guests per vehicle.

 

[peter11435]

Which is... not independent of ride length.. Coaster dispatch rates are a combination of block design, segment durations, and vehicle counts. All the pieces matter and are interwoven.

Except dispatch interval is independent of ride length. Two attractions can both dispatch 10 guests per minute and have a capacity of 600 guests per hour even if one is a 5 minute ride and the other a 15 minute ride. Obviously one will need more vehicles. But the dispatch time and the throughput is independent of the length of the ride.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm pretty sure nemo and HM have the same capacity even though HM is a much longer ride.

This is because there is a direct relationship between ride track length and the number of ride vehicles.

While hourly capacity is the bigger focus, but instantaneous capacity is also a metric used.

Dispatch times are a function of a goal. Nobody’s dreaming up a ride and describing the dispatch of ride vehicles. It’s the scope of the experience that is being developed and sold.

 

[peter11435]

.

Dispatch times are a function of a goal. Nobody’s dreaming up a ride and describing the dispatch of ride vehicles. It’s the scope of the experience that is being developed and sold.

Ride length and vehicle design is developed and pitched based on the overall experience. Desired capacity is then determined and achieved by adjusting loading configurations and number of vehicles to achieve the desired outcome. This is how attractions like tron end up with a dual load station. It’s necessary to maintain the required dispatch interval.

 

[James Alucobond]

I agree. Do people get turned away for being too tall to ride Space Mountain? Yes. Can it be painful? Yes.

But at the same time, the ride cars are so unique and the jerkiness of the ride is one of my favorite parts. I’m almost certain that a new coaster would be no where near as jerky as our Space Mountain, and that loss would make it so much less fun and exciting.

This feels like the coaster equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Delta-7]

I'm not 100% confident on what Space Mountain's average theoretical dispatch rate is, but it tends to be around the 25 sec mark so I'll go with that for this exercise.

At a 25-sec interval barring setbacks, that's about 1.7K guests an hour total. GOTG can do about 2K at 35-sec intervals.

IMO, while I love the current SM... I'd love to see a higher capacity offering replace current version.

According to ElToroRyan, both tracks of Space Mountain can send trains as frequently as every 19.5 seconds.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If designed properly, there is no reason a double wide train configuration and 2 independent single wide train configured coasters can not have the same capacity, regardless of ride length.

It is not regardless of ride length. There are constrains on how many ride vehicles you can have based on the ride system and ride design. You cannot just push down dispatch. This is best illustrated by looking at a flat ride or continuous show. You can only optimize load and unload so much, the way you boost capacity is by cutting the ride time.

 

[flynnibus]

Except dispatch interval is independent of ride length. Two attractions can both dispatch 10 guests per minute and have a capacity of 600 guests per hour even if one is a 5 minute ride and the other a 15 minute ride. Obviously one will need more vehicles. But the dispatch time and the throughput is independent of the length of the ride.

Now you're just muddying the waters with jibberish.

Guest counts is not a dispatch interval topic - It's a throughput topic.

 

[peter11435]

It is not regardless of ride length. There are constrains on how many ride vehicles you can have based on the ride system and ride design. You cannot just push down dispatch. This is best illustrated by looking at a flat ride or continuous show. You can only optimize load and unload so much, the way you boost capacity is by cutting the ride time.

Yes. But in those cases cutting the ride time means cutting the dispatch interval because they are essentially single vehicle attractions. And in those cases let’s say for an attraction like Triceratops Spin. They don’t calculate its capacity based on its 90 second ride length. The calculate capacity based on its 3 minute dispatch interval.

 

[peter11435]

Now you're just muddying the waters with jibberish.

Guest counts is not a dispatch interval topic - It's a throughput topic.

It’s not jibberish. It’s 100% how Disney handles this.

I’m not sure why you say guest counts is not a dispatch interval topic. Guests counts and throughput are a direct function of dispatch interval.

 

[flynnibus]

I can assure you. That’s not true. Cycle time and guests per vehicle do not paint the whole picture. Disney absolutely uses dispatch internal and guests per vehicle.

Because those are stats you are interested in when tracking optimization of your resource -- making sure the capacity you do have, is being utilized at a acceptable rate.

This is different from a design consideration... where those factors are more about manipulating the working constraints to reach a total goal - Throughput. Dispatch Interval and guests per vehicle aren't the thing you goal by, they are the inputs you work with to reach a goal.

 

[peter11435]

Because those are stats you are interested in when tracking optimization of your resource -- making sure the capacity you do have, is being utilized at a acceptable rate.

This is different from a design consideration... where those factors are more about manipulating the working constraints to reach a total goal - Throughput. Dispatch Interval and guests per vehicle aren't the thing you goal by, they are the inputs you work with to reach a goal.

I can’t stress this enough. When it comes to tracked attractions with the ability to run multiple vehicles. Ride length is irrelevant when it comes to designing or determining attractions capacity/throughput. Guests per vehicle and dispatch interval are the factors Disney utilizes.

 

[flynnibus]

I can’t stress this enough. When it comes to tracked attractions with the ability to run multiple vehicles. Ride length is irrelevant when it comes to designing or determining attractions capacity/throughput. Guests per vehicle and dispatch interval are the factors Disney utilizes.

'designing' and 'determining' are entirely different directions through the same variables. One is computed result, the other is modifying the inputs. Of course you use vehicle size and dispatch interval when CALCULATING the result.. but they aren't what you design TO.

No one would say "The 100 person per hour attraction capacity is perfect... because we still hit the goaled dispatch interval of 30seconds"

 

[peter11435]

'designing' and 'determining' are entirely different directions through the same variables. One is computed result, the other is modifying the inputs. Of course you use vehicle size and dispatch interval when CALCULATING the result.. but they aren't what you design TO.

No one would say "The 100 person per hour attraction capacity is perfect... because we still hit the goaled dispatch interval of 30seconds"

Vehicle size and dispatch interval DETERMINE your result. The ride length is irrelevant. Ride capacity and throughput are a direct function of vehicle size and dispatch interval. The length of a ride alone does not dictate or limit or enhance your capacity/throughput. It may impact your instantaneous capacity.

If I tell you that a ride is 10 minutes long and has 20 person vehicles you can not determine capacity or throughput. But if I tell you an attraction has 20 person vehicles and can dispatch a minimum of every 60 seconds you can.