Mission: Space tragedy

[speck76]

I am all for parents taking responsibility and checking out things before their kid does, that is just common sense.

What I don't understand is how that would have changed anything here - how is a layman parent to know at what level the motion becomes harmful? Do these parents have acces to electronic devices that measure G-forces? Do they also have degress in Engineering AND pediatric physiology to be able to make that distinction as to what is and is not appropriate physiologically for their child in a medical sense?

"Yes, after experiencing that attraction I feel as if my child has a chance of having a Brain Anyerism/heart failure/other unexpected medical issue that will cause death even though they meet the height requirement."

I just don't see it...unless there was knowledge of a pre-existing medical condition, there should be a reasonable expectation that it doesn't foster danger to a healthy person.

We have no idea what happened here. Blaming ANYONE is wrong, at least until we know medically what actually happened. M:S isn't a terribly intense ride to someone without motion sickness - roller coasters have higher G-force ratings. But, if you are sensitive to spinning, as I am - you get nauseus. If their child didn't have a diagnosed medical problem, even begining to second guess the parents at this point is in very, very poor taste - regardless of your opinion.

AEfx

OH MY GOD

I agree with you

(does that make you feel dirty?)

Disney could hand out a pamphlet to every person that gets in line that would state every G-force and sensation that they will feel, and every medical condition (known or unknown) that the sensations could complicate (they could model the pamphlet after the Shark Fin Soup pamphlet being used at HKDL) but would anyone read or comprehend it?

Also, many of the conditions aggrivated are unknown to the people that are so tragically taken from us on these rides. :lookaroun So would they even know if they are at risk?

 

[wdwdave09]

Condolences

I doubt I'll add anything that hasn't been said but...

First, my condolences go out to the family. As my wife and I discussed, from a parent's perspective, I don't think there is anything worse in life than burying a child. If it were my child, I'd blame myself and I don't know how I would cope.

With that said, I'm not blaming the mother. As many have posted, most guests don't truly understand the intensities of amusement park rides. I personally think Disney has done a pretty good job warning people of the potenital dangers of riding M:S. They have signs, show video of riders, and show, via video, what the ride is about. Then when you get ready to ride, they repeat their warnings. This story really hit home for us because my children and I just rode M:S on Thurs, June 9th. That little boy could have been my 7-year old.

My family first rode M:S in 2003 when my son turned 6 (and my daughter was 10). Both my children enjoy thrill rides. At 4, my son didn't like "thrill" rides. We eased him in on children's coasters (Barnstormer-sytle coasters) when we felt he was ready. So it would have been a no-brainer, even if he met the height requirement - he wouldn't have ridden. But that's MY child. My children also don't go to PG-13 movies because I don't think they need to yet and/or are ready. Thats my (and my wife's) choice.

Regarding the M:S ride, I think Disney should be commended on creating this ride. I can count on one hand the number of people I've met in my life who have no desire to ride into space. I'd go up into space in a heartbeat if given the chance. But most likely, that chance won't be given. How does the average person get a taste of space travel? They didn't, until Disney created M:S. I think Disney did a pretty good job of simulating the effects of space travel (based on what I have read). They worked with NASA and ex-astronauts on the ride to make it realistic without being "totally" realistic (where on take-off you experience even more G-forces). I don't think its a "death-trap" but it is too intense for many people (my wife rode once and won't ride anymore and my mother got sick from it). Many posts compare M:S with Horizons and lament the loss of a "family friendly" ride. While I personally enjoy thrill rides, what I most like about M:S is that Disney did something thrilling and educational. Again, where else but at NASA or on SpaceShipOne can you ride into space? Space Ship Earth is educational and somewhat entertaining to me, but I can learn about the info it provies via the Internet or by watching the History Channel. I can learn about space travel the same way but now I have a new respect and admiration for the people who are in this profession. Its intense and takes special people to perform that type of work.

Bottom line is that I'm truly saddened by what happened. But I'm not ready to bulldoze the ride because I really think it offers something special to those who can handle the physical demands (which is nearly 10 million people from my understanding).

 

[TiggerBW]

I am extremely saddened by this news. My heart and prayers go out to the family, paramedics, and M:S workers who were there and tried to help him.

Of course we don't know the facts, but I do know that parents can be unaware of preexisting conditions and even when looking for them don't always find them.

I found out 2 years ago (when I was 26) that I had a hole in my heart. I was born with it, and dr.'s couldn't find it. I went for several tests and each time, my hole was "bigger than they thought." When they finally went in to operate and fix it, it was bigger than a nickel. IT didn't change, it was always that way........but they couldn't see it. I was born that way. So, it's possible that he had something that they just can't see yet.

I just feel so badly about this whole thing.

 

[speck76]

But then we have cold people like yourself who post right away "no big deal, happens a couple of times a year..." and your continued posts in this thread just shrugging it off.

It's just sick and unneccesary to say such a thing. Why do YOU feel the need to be so frigging cold about it? YES, we know, you are above it all, Speck - not only are you the smartest person on these boards (because you have statistics!) but you also are the most stoic, unemotional person here. We all bow down before you and your enlightened view of the world.

Actually, I posted one time once I found out what had happened. Do you know why I posted that.....not because I am cold and unfeeling....because of what was the top nes story on every frickin channel today.....the ride did not "kill" the kid, the kid had something happen to him while on the ride, and later died. Unfortunately, half of these posts in this thread are claiming MS is dangerous, should be closed...one member said it was a death trap (I am sure that WDW, her employer, would be proud of that comment)...so, why is my "realistic" approach so bad. Why do I, in your eyes, have to be gushing with sunshine and rainbows?

Well, I can't believe the VERY poor taste you presented in giving out the name and address, if in fact that really is it.

If you or any other member of this board is emotionally effected by this tragedy, send you condolences to the family, or to a charity in the child's name. (BTW, the address was in one of the many articles that I looked at about the death)

 

[Woody13]

You present this attutide quite often, Speck. I truly do hope that it's just your way of dealing with things, because otherwise your life must be very, very sad.AEfx

It's called logic. Damn you Speck for being logical!

 

[speck76]

It's called logic. Damn you Speck for being logical!

It's a curse.......

 

[AEfx]

OH MY GOD

I agree with you

(does that make you feel dirty?)

Speck, you and I agree more often than not.

I just feel that some times you get a bit out of control with your postings - like in this thread. How many posts have you made here about this topic that you seem to not have a great deal of feeling about?

Some of your comments have come across as totally insensitive, and either a) you know this and are trying to project that image intentionally, b) you don't respect human life, or c) it's a defense mechanism.

There are just some thoughts you don't express in mixed company no matter how you feel, when you aren't involved and saying those things is going to do nothing but make others feel bad. It's called respect. People may be posting condolences for the right reasons, or the wrong reasons - but there is a time and a place for cynicism and "logic", as your pal Woody posted - and a time and place for sentimentality or at least respectful silence. Right now, it's a time for the latter.

As I said above, I don't expect you to post gushy thoughts. However, your almost pathological need to be "Mr. Reality" is nonthless disturbing. We've derailed this thread enough - either you understand the concept of respect and the proper way to behave as an adult in the face of tragedy or you don't. You think I'm some false bleeding heart (which is honestly a first for someone saying about me, LOL) and I think you protest too much.

We may agree on the facts, or lack thereof in this case, but your application and interpretation of life is simply far different from mine.

AEfx

 

[KingStefan]

I'm sure Walt was there to greet the young man at the Gates.

I'm crying again. What a beautiful thought. Thanks.

 

[KingStefan]

Thanks for saying this, Laura.

I almost didn't open this thread because I just knew the "heartless patrol" would be out.

However, I have come to realize that people that post these types of comments, saying it's no big deal, or that are otherwise remarkably callous on issues like this where a DEATH is involved, or pointing blame at ANYONE at this point with what little information we have, don't really feel that way. At least most of them don't.

It's just their defense mechanism, or way of dealing with something like this. No one wants to hear about deaths at the Happiest Place On Earth. Most of us can't even think about what it would feel like to have something so horrible happen there, let alone think about if we lost a child/sibling/etc in general. Only truly sick people discount feelings about such real issues like life and death like that that - the rest are just pretending to be all "tough" and "above it all" when something tragic happens so they don't reveal their true feelings.

At least that's what I try to tell myself, because if some of the people who post such comments really do feel as little for people than that - let's just say it would absolutey boggle my mind that people like that could even understand Disney magic, let alone come to a website all about it. Sick in a pathological, disturbing way - something I truly hope doesn't apply to anyone around here.

I'm not one for prayers, but my thoughts are definately with that family - who were trying to have a WDW trip like any of us that ended in a way that we really wish we didn't have to think about but unfortunately is a fact of life.

AEfx

This is incredibly perceptive, and gave me new ideas about how to think about this situation. Thanks.

 

[KingStefan]

Excuse me while I climb on my soapbox.

I've read some, but not all of the posts here and have been hesitant to express my opinions on what happened, mainly because there is some validity in just about all of the opinions expressed, save those that have resorted to mud slinging at others.

I just put my 4 year old daughter to bed. I choke up at the thought that anything so tragic could possibly happen to her. I just cannot imagine the pain and horror of this child's parents. As for the child, I'm sure he is now at rest in the hands of God. But to not see your own child grow up and realize their potential (mine is apparently going to be the first woman President), must be devastating. And to feel the guilt (valid or not) of responsibility must be even worse.

We can post pages of debate on ride safety, culpability, and media sesantionalism, but the bottom line is that this is a horrible tragedy that cannot be changed. When I go to bed shortly, I will say a prayer for the child, his parents, the CM's who witnessed this, and the ride's designers who may feel the weight of what happened. I would hope all of you out there would do the same.

Here, here!!!!!

 

[speck76]

Speck, you and I agree more often than not.

I just feel that some times you get a bit out of control with your postings - like in this thread. How many posts have you made here about this topic that you seem to not have a great deal of feeling about?

1 (once the situation was known, and then I unsubscribed) then I was attacked.

Some of your comments have come across as totally insensitive, and either a) you know this and are trying to project that image intentionally, b) you don't respect human life, or c) it's a defense mechanism.

Looking at the situation logically, and not going off the deep end with emotions. (i.e. MS is a death trap)

There are just some thoughts you don't express in mixed company no matter how you feel, when you aren't involved and saying those things is going to do nothing but make others feel bad. It's called respect. People may be posting condolences for the right reasons, or the wrong reasons - but there is a time and a place for cynicism and "logic", as your pal Woody posted - and a time and place for sentimentality or at least respectful silence. Right now, it's a time for the latter.

Really......

Are you approving to any message other than "My thoughts and feeling go out to the family"? I do not see the "Chicken Littles" being harassed.

 

[KingStefan]

I am all for parents taking responsibility and checking out things before their kid does, that is just common sense.

What I don't understand is how that would have changed anything here - how is a layman parent to know at what level the motion becomes harmful? Do these parents have acces to electronic devices that measure G-forces? Do they also have degress in Engineering AND pediatric physiology to be able to make that distinction as to what is and is not appropriate physiologically for their child in a medical sense?

"Yes, after experiencing that attraction I feel as if my child has a chance of having a Brain Anyerism/heart failure/other unexpected medical issue that will cause death even though they meet the height requirement."

I just don't see it...unless there was knowledge of a pre-existing medical condition, there should be a reasonable expectation that it doesn't foster danger to a healthy person.

We have no idea what happened here. Blaming ANYONE is wrong, at least until we know medically what actually happened. M:S isn't a terribly intense ride to someone without motion sickness - roller coasters have higher G-force ratings. But, if you are sensitive to spinning, as I am - you get nauseus. If their child didn't have a diagnosed medical problem, even begining to second guess the parents at this point is in very, very poor taste - regardless of your opinion.

AEfx

Yes! You have said this very elequently! I was trying to find the words, and you beat me to it. Thank you!

 

[The_CEO]

I hope the boy can rest in peace now.

 

[Woody13]

Some of your comments have come across as totally insensitive, and either a) you know this and are trying to project that image intentionally, b) you don't respect human life, or c) it's a defense mechanism.

IMHO, none of the posts on this subject by Speck have been either insensitive, inaccurate nor cynical. To the contrary, they have been thoughtful and very helpful in understanding the overall situation. You're just wrong in your appraisal of the situation. It seems you have made a mistake. Are you a psychiatrist or is this a case of practicing without a license?

 

[AEfx]

Woody, Speck :

I made a post that spoke generally about the tone of some posts in this thread, not addressing anyone but Laura because she seemed disturbed by it as well. You made some defensive replies when I wouldn't have said anything else. You know how I feel about some of the comments that have been made; I feel no need to defend my personal interpretation of the comments I have read.

It comes down to this for me.

A family got on a plane from PA the other day with their child, alive and well on their way to vacation in "happiest place on earth" - something people plan for months and even years ahead of time as an exciting family milestone.

This week they will get on a plane back home with their child in a coffin, because he died, and have to go home to an empty house without him.

That's what this is about, and people are reacting emotionally. It's not a time for hiding behind "logic". You feel differently. I'm not going to argue the point, it's not the time.

AEfx

 

[Raven66]

Yes, I would... but I guess that is just me. Since my sons started going on rollercoasters and thrill rides at age 3 1/2 (Big Thunder Mountain) he has NEVER been on a ride that I haven't riden first. And this is at amusement parks all over the country and not just Disney...

And then when it really comes down to it...

His mother has the final say so.

Isn't that the way it's supposed to be?? :animwink:

 

[Woody13]

That's what this is about, and people are reacting emotionally. It's not a time for hiding behind "logic". You feel differently. I'm not going to argue the point, it's not the time.

However, instead, you have decided to use this thread as a soapbox to push your very narrow viewpoint and psychoanalyze others in the process. Express your grief in private. That would be better.

 

[angelfaerie52]

I feel really awful about this situation... and I really hope M:S does not close. I don't know why people complain about it so much... I've been on it over thirty times and still haven't seen anyone "get sick."

This is sad... but I really hope it isn't the end of the ride. A lot of people can't handle spinning. I for one detest drops/roller coasters... but could spin all day long.

This is a terrible tragedy. I heard a news blurb that was just like "a boy dies at Epcot... Is it Disney's fault?"

I don't think it's the ride's fault nor do I think it's the parents fault... just a freak occurence, like when you hear about young athletes collapsing. Things happen due to stress... and the spinning could have put too much pressure.. But who really knows.

I hope it all works out smoothly.

 

[lovlifehope]

i don't think it's disney's fault. they put warning signs everywhere before you actually go in the ride. so they ride it at their own risk.

 

[Raven66]

And we both know EXACTLY who you are referring to....

You are just looking for a fight, aren't you?