Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[MisterPenguin]

This argument could also be used to replace Jungle Cruise, which actually fits your concerns better than GMR. The boat system is very outdated, the story is laughable 1960s cornball dad jokes, it has a huge plot of very valuable land in the most popular park and its completely reliant on cast members.

I'd fully support killing of Jungle Cruise for a better use of the land, presuming something of the order of Pandora/FoP. And give up PotC for Shanghai's version. And the current coaster in Space Mountain for a much better one with a smoother ride and better FX. And IaSW for a much better updated one (preferably in Epcot). And Speedway for electric TRON racers (or RC Racers in TSL). I would have been totally on board with TGMR having most of its scenes updated and MMRR going elsewhere, as long as TGMR was indeed updated.

Many of these attractions are noted for being the worst version of their cloned siblings or terribly outdated or terribly maintained, and yet, even with that acknowledgment, people throw their bodies in front of the wrecking ball because they're preserving their nostalgia, not a good experience for the next generation.

Frankly, its selfish.

 

[RobotWolf]

Despite the occasional exception, Nostalgia is an investment with increasingly diminishing returns.

 

[kthomas105]

The GMR was the thesis for the park the way it was originally intended to be consumed. Disney is changing that thesis so it is understandable as to why they removed it. I enjoyed the GMR and wish they would have updated it or even changed the approach but the GMR (and Universal Studios) was the precipitous start of Disney-MGM Studios. When you understand it from that perspective it makes it easier to get rid of because your larger objective is to change the scope of the park and the GMR stood opposed to that as a relic of a bygone park. The options were to remove and replace or update, we all know what they chose and based on past records that may indeed be for the best.

 

[kthomas105]

Despite the occasional exception, Nostalgia is an investment with increasingly diminishing returns.

Nostalgia, enjoy it while you can!

 

[Casper Gutman]

I'd fully support killing of Jungle Cruise for a better use of the land, presuming something of the order of Pandora/FoP. And give up PotC for Shanghai's version. And the current coaster in Space Mountain for a much better one with a smoother ride and better FX. And IaSW for a much better updated one (preferably in Epcot). And Speedway for electric TRON racers (or RC Racers in TSL). I would have been totally on board with TGMR having most of its scenes updated and MMRR going elsewhere, as long as TGMR was indeed updated.

Many of these attractions are noted for being the worst version of their cloned siblings or terribly outdated or terribly maintained, and yet, even with that acknowledgment, people throw their bodies in front of the wrecking ball because they're preserving their nostalgia, not a good experience for the next generation.

Frankly, its selfish.

Most of that sounds eminently reasonable. And completely implausible.

We won’t get Shanghai Pirates or an updated IaSW. Worst case, we’ll get Imagination. Best case, we’ll get a load of screens. And I have very real doubts screen-heavy rides will delight future generations.

 

[Missing20K]

Despite the occasional exception, Nostalgia is an investment with increasingly diminishing returns.

Especially for a media conglomerate that markets nostalgia to a large portion of it's audience. Particularly the nostalgia held by those in the age brackets of 30-50 and 50-70. Those age brackets that are now having children and grandchildren and would like them to experience the themed environments and experiences they themselves enjoyed when they were in the 0-30 age bracket.

 

[Missing20K]

And they are having SO much trouble attracting people to the parks....

Where did I ever say they are having trouble with attendance?

 

[RobotWolf]

Especially for a media conglomerate that markets nostalgia to a large portion of it's audience. Particularly the nostalgia held by those in the age brackets of 30-50 and 50-70. Those age brackets that are know having children and grandchildren and would like them to experience the themed environments and experiences they themselves enjoyed when they were in the 0-30 age bracket.

Except those children and grandchildren want their own, new experiences. The nostalgia that their parents hold so dear is perpetually lame... apparently. Disney is painfully aware of this as nostalgia is their main product.

 

[Missing20K]

Except those children and grandchildren want their own, new experiences. The nostalgia that their parents hold so dear is perpetually lame... apparently. Disney is painfully aware of this as nostalgia is their main product.

Oh cool, I can't wait for my daughters to take myself and my wife and her grandparents to Disney.

EDIT: You're second sentence was what I was trying to point out in my other post. DIS markets nostalgia. It fills rooms.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yeah, kids and teens are all about nostalgia (and always have been)... they just FLOCK to history museums.

Yeah yeah, Disney is about everyone playing together, but one of the happiest things for parents is see is: their kids happy...

Nothing new here, always been the case.

OK, you seem to be really struggling with the concept of nostalgia. Museums don’t capitalize on nostalgia (unless you’re several hundred years old.)

You know what does capitalize on nostalgia? The MCU. The DCEU. Star Wars. Jurassic World. Godzilla. Aladdin. Lion King. Dumbo. Mulan. Detective Pikachu. Sonic (heh). Men in Black. Shaft. Child’s Play. Toy Story. LEGO. Scary Stories to Tell In the Dark. It. Rambo. The Addams Family. Maleficent. Terminator. Planet of the Apes. Mission: Impossible. Charlie’s Angels. Jumanji. Bad Boys For Life. Peter Rabbit. Fantasy Island. Trolls. Legally Blonde. Scooby Doo. Candyman. Top Gun. Ghostbusters. Coming to America. Bill & Ted. Hercule Poirot.

Stranger Things. The Connors. Will & Grace. Hawaii Five-0. Magnum PI. Gilmore Girls. Twin Peaks. Murphy Brown. Veronica Mars.

But no. Nostalgia has NO place in modern pop culture. It certainly isn’t one of the central elements in all of popular culture of the last 20 years, the core of Disney’s entire approach to entertainment. No one likes nostalgia.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I'd fully support killing of Jungle Cruise for a better use of the land, presuming something of the order of Pandora/FoP. And give up PotC for Shanghai's version. And the current coaster in Space Mountain for a much better one with a smoother ride and better FX. And IaSW for a much better updated one (preferably in Epcot). And Speedway for electric TRON racers (or RC Racers in TSL). I would have been totally on board with TGMR having most of its scenes updated and MMRR going elsewhere, as long as TGMR was indeed updated.

Many of these attractions are noted for being the worst version of their cloned siblings or terribly outdated or terribly maintained, and yet, even with that acknowledgment, people throw their bodies in front of the wrecking ball because they're preserving their nostalgia, not a good experience for the next generation.

Frankly, its selfish.

I've been advocating for the removal-or-massive-refurbing of Jungle Cruise for a while now. The ride is cringe-worthy. Cornball, dated effects - it's way overdue for a change. I must admit, however, that I have no idea how to actually refurb it so that it would be made better. Perhaps a removal/replacement is the only real solution. Yeah, it's a Walt Original, but to quote Walt, "Disneyland isn't a museum", so maybe it really is time for it to go...

 

[Missing20K]

OK, you seem to be really struggling with the concept of nostalgia. Museums don’t capitalize on nostalgia (unless you’re several hundred years old.)

You know what does capitalize on nostalgia? The MCU. The DCEU. Star Wars. Jurassic World. Aladdin. Lion King. Dumbo. Detective Pikachu. Sonic (heh). Men in Black. Shaft. Child’s Play. Toy Story 4. LEGO. Scary Stories to Tell In the Dark. It. Rambo. The Addams Family. Maleficent. Terminator. Planet of the Apes. Mission: Impossible.

Stranger Things. The Connors. Will & Grace. Hawaii Five-0. Magnum PI. Gilmore Girls. Twin Peaks. Murphy Brown. Veronica Mars.

But no. Nostalgia has NO place in modern pop culture. It certainly isn’t one of the central elements in all of popular culture of the last 20 years, the core of Disney’s entire approach to entertainment. No one likes nostalgia.

Mickey. Mouse.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Mickey. Mouse.

 

[RobotWolf]

I only suggested that the market was diminishing. But if you believe that simply stating that this market still exists wins some internet points, then fair enough.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Yeah, kids and teens are all about nostalgia (and always have been)... they just FLOCK to history museums.

Yeah yeah, Disney is about everyone playing together, but one of the happiest things for parents is see is: their kids happy...

Nothing new here, always been the case.

Insinuating museums are about nostalgia is the funniest thing I've ever heard

"Remember World War II? Those were the days!"

 

[Casper Gutman]

I only suggested that the market was diminishing. But if you believe that simply stating that this market still exists wins some internet points, then fair enough.

To a huge extent, the nostalgia market IS the pop culture market today. This weekend a movie based on characters from the early 60s (and one from the early 40s) obliterated every single box office record. It will be challenged in a few weeks by an adult-friendly live-action film based on a 90s cartoon. Every franchise I listed in the second paragraph above will see a new big screen installment in the next two years.

P.S. One upcoming film property I didn’t list that seems very relevant here - Jungle Cruise.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Nothing like a good "Disney is a business" argument followed by what is hip and relevant today. Good times.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Nostalgia is more nuanced than anyone is allowing for. Nostalgia is real. It is commoditizable. But it only gets you so far.

The latest LEGO movie tanked. The Adams Family Broadway musical tanked. So many movies made from old TV shows tanked. Sometimes nostalgia gets you that first bite of the apple (as in the first LEGO movie) and then no further.

Nostalgia that has been regularly updated and promoted can do well (Mickey Mouse). But if it's long in the past, it might have lost its audience (sorry Mortimer) and would have to be re-introduced in some way.

We've all seen nostalgia slapped onto a really bad vehicle and fail. But if the vehicle is done well, the nostalgia has a multiplier effect.

And by itself, without updates, nostalgia will fail as the people who once knew and loved it based on emotion simply die off, even if their fervor for it is strong. Death beats strong fervor.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Nostalgia is more nuanced than anyone is allowing for. Nostalgia is real. It is commoditizable. But it only gets you so far.

The latest LEGO movie tanked. The Adams Family Broadway musical tanked. So many movies made from old TV shows tanked. Sometimes nostalgia gets you that first bite of the apple (as in the first LEGO movie) and then no further.

Nostalgia that has been regularly updated and promoted can do well (Mickey Mouse). But if it's long in the past, it might have lost its audience (sorry Mortimer) and would have to be re-introduced in some way.

We've all seen nostalgia slapped onto a really bad vehicle and fail. But if the vehicle is done well, the nostalgia has a multiplier effect.

And by itself, without updates, nostalgia will fail as the people who once knew and loved it based on emotion simply die off, even if their fervor for it is strong. Death beats strong fervor.

Mortimer may not be marketable, but Oswald is proving viable after nearly a century of non-existence.

Nostalgia is more nuanced then we are acknowledging, but in modern, post-2000 pop culture it is more powerful then you seem to be acknowledging. Some nostalgia-fueled enterprises do fail (although the TV-to-film failures you mention are very much of the 90s, a different entertainment moment). But every major modern film franchise I can think of (save perhaps Fast & Furious) relies heavily on nostalgia.

This conversation began because “new” and “state-of-the-art” were posited as simple, unqualified positives. Nostalgia was bad because it stood in their way. But despite nostalgia’s overwhelming power at this particular cultural moment, neither “new” or “nostalgic” is inherently good on its own. But nostalgia more often (certainly not always) attaches to things that are unique and have some genuine quality to them. This is the case with the classic Disney rides. I would argue that nostalgia - a key component of longevity - is less likely to attach to many of the recent rides - firstly because so many are lackluster, secondly because the reliance on screens (and, possibly, the connection to much broader IPs) renders them less unique.

 

[flynnibus]

Not to get back into it BUT it was an a) outdated ride system, b) outdated story, c) over-reliant on "cast members as actors", and generally not nearly as popular as it should be in that location. Could they have updated it? Sure. However, that's what leadership is about: making tough choices. You don't have to agree (or even spend your $$ there) if you don't want to.

You act like live acting is bad...

How about.. bad acting is bad... and robotic entertainment is not as fun as live entertainment either.