Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[UNCgolf]

Dumb question, but the 105 wasn't meant to be 1 hour and 5 minutes, was it? Because then it was dead on. I don't recall if the signs read out strictly in minutes or in hours and minutes.

They're in minutes.

They're also always artificially inflated; you should always wait a shorter amount of time than the posted wait time unless something unforeseen like a ride stoppage happens.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Not to mention MK isn't as in dire need of RIDES as Hollywood Studios is.

I disagree. MK probably needs 6-7000 guest per hour in attraction capacity relative to its attendance. DHS probably needs 3-4000.

 

[marni1971]

Out of curiosity does anyone know how much this ride cost Disney to develop and build? Seems like this one was on time and without a lot of drama compared to other rides.

Yes.

It had its own issues (and a very much delayed opening)

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I disagree. MK probably needs 6-7000 guest per hour in attraction capacity relative to its attendance. DHS probably needs 3-4000.

“Relative to its attendance” . . . the problem is that every time you add something to MK you increase attendance. By the time you add enough attraction capacity to accommodate the additional guests they bring in you have an MK with multiple dozens of attractions and 3 other parks with a dozen or less.

Or you could soften attendance at MK by giving guests more compelling reasons to spend time at the other gates.

 

[tirian]

“Relative to its attendance” . . . the problem is that every time you add something to MK you increase attendance. By the time you add enough attraction capacity to accommodate the additional guests they bring in you have an MK with multiple dozens of attractions and 3 other parks with a dozen or less.

Or we could restore the MK and Epcot to their massive capacities from the late ‘80s through early ‘90s, and continue building out the other two parks.

...you could soften attendance at MK by giving guests more compelling reasons to spend time at the other gates.

I completely agree.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Or we could restore the MK and Epcot to their massive capacities from the late ‘80s through early ‘90s, and continue building out the other two parks.

Oh for sure, I would KILL for that.

It just seems that the most popular idea on these boards for addressing MK's attendance and capacity issues is to just keep lavishing attractions on it, despite the fact that it has almost always been miles ahead of the other parks in terms of offerings (EPCOT Center excepted, but they've done some serious damage since then).

Can you imagine a world where MK and EPCOT have the massive capacities they used to, and DHS and Animal Kingdom are COMPARABLE in that regard? It almost seems inconceivable these days, but what a thing that would be! If only they'd ever given that a real try.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Or we could restore the MK and Epcot to their massive capacities from the late ‘80s through early ‘90s, and continue building out the other two parks.

Can you imagine a world where MK and EPCOT have the massive capacities they used to, and DHS and Animal Kingdom are COMPARABLE in that regard? It almost seems inconceivable these days, but what a thing that would be! If only they'd ever given that a real try.

What do you mean by MK having much greater capacity in the 80's and 90's? Did they shut down a quarter of their attractions since then?

I don't have the figures for the 80's and 90's, but since 2006, MK's attendance has increased by 4 million guests a year.

The "lack of capacity" is really "more guests pushing regular capacity past its tipping point."

And yes, WDW didn't expand capacity like they should have to compensate. But the idea that capacity in MK was slashed since the 80's and 90s and that's why it's so overcrowded is just... crazy.

 

[UNCgolf]

And yes, WDW didn't expand capacity like they should have to compensate. But the idea that capacity in MK was slashed since the 80's and 90s and that's why it's so overcrowded is just... crazy.

I was wondering about that too. EPCOT definitely has less capacity in numerous ways, but I don't think the Magic Kingdom has less. The rides that were shut down have been replaced by others (20,000 was replaced by two rides). I suppose there could be a small decrease in capacity with the Stitch theater closed and a few other small things gone (like the keel boats), but I think the Seven Dwarfs/Little Mermaid combo would make up for that.

They absolutely failed to keep up with the attendance increase, though. And if you want to argue the quality of some of the new rides is less than what they replaced, I'd agree with that, but it's a separate argument from capacity.

 

[HoustonHorn]

So, I just tonight saw the first commercials for MMRR on network TV. That seems like poor timing.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So, I just tonight saw the first commercials for MMRR on network TV. That seems like poor timing.

Those buys were made awhile ago.

 

[tirian]

What do you mean by MK having much greater capacity in the 80's and 90's? Did they shut down a quarter of their attractions since then?

I don't have the figures for the 80's and 90's, but since 2006, MK's attendance has increased by 4 million guests a year.

The "lack of capacity" is really "more guests pushing regular capacity past its tipping point."

And yes, WDW didn't expand capacity like they should have to compensate. But the idea that capacity in MK was slashed since the 80's and 90s and that's why it's so overcrowded is just... crazy.

Which is why I never said that.

I was wondering about that too. EPCOT definitely has less capacity in numerous ways, but I don't think the Magic Kingdom has less. The rides that were shut down have been replaced by others (20,000 was replaced by two rides). I suppose there could be a small decrease in capacity with the Stitch theater closed and a few other small things gone (like the keel boats), but I think the Seven Dwarfs/Little Mermaid combo would make up for that.

They absolutely failed to keep up with the attendance increase, though. And if you want to argue the quality of some of the new rides is less than what they replaced, I'd agree with that, but it's a separate argument from capacity.

The MK and Epcot have lost many high-capacity attractions over the years. Most replacements don’t have the hourly counts of the original attractions. This has been discussed many times on the boards; I don’t know why it would seem like a shocking thing to say.

 

[DisneyfanMA]

I disagree. MK probably needs 6-7000 guest per hour in attraction capacity relative to its attendance. DHS probably needs 3-4000.

I totally get what you’re saying with the math behind the capacity of rides relative to park attendance. That said it’s a tad disappointing to me that Mk has like 2 dozen rides while the other parks less than 10 or around 10. Feels a little soft to me for the other parks. I think they could be up around 12 to 15 and MK at maybe 25 to 30. Of course everyone wants more rides but it’s kind of crazy how lacking DHS got for rides and even with all the investment how it still has so few. Just my personal opinion, overall I’m thrilled with what Disneys been doing as of late at all the parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It just seems that the most popular idea on these boards for addressing MK's attendance and capacity issues is to just keep lavishing attractions on it, despite the fact that it has almost always been miles ahead of the other parks in terms of offerings (EPCOT Center excepted, but they've done some serious damage since then).

The Magic Kingdom, and really all of the parks of central Florida, need to be showered with A - C tickets. Things that won’t induce demand but that people can easily do to help fill out a day.

The MK and Epcot have lost many high-capacity attractions over the years. Most replacements don’t have the hourly counts of the original attractions. This has been discussed many times on the boards; I don’t know why it would seem like a shocking thing to say.

The Magic Kingdom has also lost dining capacity and has abandoned retail space. In another thread @Animaniac93-98 noted that as of now Tomorrowland will have a net gain of 0 when TRON opens over a few years ago. This got me thinking about the net total of attractions at Magic Kingdom and when it peaked. While a lot of it is smaller scale attractions like the canoes and Keel Boats, I’m not sure we’re at a lifetime net gain in attractions at the Magic Kingdom. One day I’ll make the time to sit down and do the count

 

[MisterPenguin]

The MK and Epcot have lost many high-capacity attractions over the years. Most replacements don’t have the hourly counts of the original attractions. This has been discussed many times on the boards; I don’t know why it would seem like a shocking thing to say.

You keep mashing MK and Epcot together in that statement.

I'm challenging the notion that MK lost significant capacity in rides. I'll grant you Epcot.

MK's overcrowding has nothing to do with a significant loss of ride capacity.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I totally get what you’re saying with the math behind the capacity of rides relative to park attendance. That said it’s a tad disappointing to me that Mk has like 2 dozen rides while the other parks less than 10 or around 10. Feels a little soft to me for the other parks. I think they could be up around 12 to 15 and MK at maybe 25 to 30.

You know that "2 dozen" is 24. And that wanting MK to have at least 25 is just one more ride?

Also, MK has 27 rides. TRON will be 28. A replacement for Stitch will be 29. So... there's your 25-30 rides.

Of course, what is a ride and what is not gets in to grey areas, but, in general....

 

[UNCgolf]

The MK and Epcot have lost many high-capacity attractions over the years. Most replacements don’t have the hourly counts of the original attractions. This has been discussed many times on the boards; I don’t know why it would seem like a shocking thing to say.

What are they? What was at the Magic Kingdom 30 years ago that hasn't been replaced with something similar?

I'm not being snarky; I honestly can't think of much. There's Snow White's Scary Adventure, and that was probably a loss in capacity if you compare it and 20k to Little Mermaid and Seven Dwarfs -- I'm pretty sure Little Mermaid has a higher capacity than 20k did, but I'm sure Seven Dwarfs has less than Snow White. Was there a significant loss in capacity moving from Mr. Toad to Winnie the Pooh? What else is there other than the Stitch theater? Also, isn't the Barnstormer a new attraction that added capacity? I don't remember there being any real attractions there previously.

I'd actually love to see a breakdown of the total hourly capacity of attractions in, say, 1990 compared to today, even before Tron opens. I'd be surprised if it wasn't very similar. The issue is that attendance is significantly higher, which means hourly capacity should have increased, not stayed the same. Also, to clarify, I'm only talking about the Magic Kingdom. EPCOT has lost a ton of capacity.

 

[winstongator]

I'd actually love to see a breakdown of the total hourly capacity of attractions in, say, 1990 compared to today,

sounds like you’ve given yourself an assignment.

what people miss with capacity is that the queue is part of what keeps people occupied. E-tickets provide capacity by keeping people in their queues for hours. Capacity really needs to be measured in guest-hours how long people are occupied, not just guest-per-hour.

imagine 3 attractions each 3 minutes long with 3000 guest per hour ’capacity’, with no standby wait. You’ve got 3x3000x3/60 = 450 guest-hours. Compare that to one attraction with 1000 guests/hour, but people wait 3 hours for it. That’s 3,000 guest-hours.

do you want primeval whirl, triceratops spin and it’s a bug’s life or flight of passage? I know where I’d spend my time.

 

[winstongator]

The ideal attraction accommodates a large number of guests per hour, is long, and popular enough to have long standby queues. Haunted mansion is the best for all 3, but one new attraction will eventually fill that role too.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

do you want primeval whirl, triceratops spin and it’s a bug’s life or flight of passage? I know where I’d spend my time.

That makes sense in theory, but a park needs more than a few headliners to give guests the satisfying experience of "a full day". Otherwise you've spent all day waiting in line for 4 short rides and you won't want to come back to do it again.

You need a nice smattering of things you can get on without killing yourself that aren't headliners but are still enjoyable. This is the situation Hollywood Studios is in vs. a more well-rounded park like MK.

EPCOT Center was a rare case where almost every Future World Pavilion had something that could pass for a headliner AND you didn't have to wait forever to get on it because 1) The attraction capacity was that high, and 2) There was THAT much to do in the park that people were spread around. You could do a bunch AND feel like you were riding the heavy-hitters.

But short of that, you at least need a handful of nice C and D-Ticket attractions to flesh out the menu, and then enough A and B-Tickets that can double as atmosphere for the park and benefit even the guests who don't ride just by the way they liven up the environment (the way the Main Street Vehicles, Teacups, and Carousel do).

Never mind that not every guest can ride attractions like Flight of Passage, for various reasons - DHS has only TWO rides that don't have any height requirement, for example.

 

[Rich Brownn]

What are they? What was at the Magic Kingdom 30 years ago that hasn't been replaced with something similar?

I'm not being snarky; I honestly can't think of much. There's Snow White's Scary Adventure, and that was probably a loss in capacity if you compare it and 20k to Little Mermaid and Seven Dwarfs -- I'm pretty sure Little Mermaid has a higher capacity than 20k did, but I'm sure Seven Dwarfs has less than Snow White. Was there a significant loss in capacity moving from Mr. Toad to Winnie the Pooh? What else is there other than the Stitch theater? Also, isn't the Barnstormer a new attraction that added capacity? I don't remember there being any real attractions there previously.

I'd actually love to see a breakdown of the total hourly capacity of attractions in, say, 1990 compared to today, even before Tron opens. I'd be surprised if it wasn't very similar. The issue is that attendance is significantly higher, which means hourly capacity should have increased, not stayed the same. Also, to clarify, I'm only talking about the Magic Kingdom. EPCOT has lost a ton of capacity.

Well, these aren't biggies but... Swan Boat (not replaced), Space Mount train capacity cut from 8 to 6, the Skyway, the second Riverboat.. that's all I can think of that closed and were.t replaced. (Do the never-running Main street Vehicles count?)