Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
But you and I know that’ll never happen. At best, I’d hope for one more project with an E and a D or C. It’s a real pity because the situation would be MUCH less dire had they updated GMR and built MMRR in Animation Courtyard as we’ve suggested. These poorly-planned snap decisions routinely end up forcing Disney to spend hundreds of millions later. You’d think they would understand that given the mess they’ve created in Epcot. Saving $50m by not updating GMR will end up forcing them to build a new ride elsewhere for much more than $50m, but if it’s in a different FY, that’s fine, right?
 

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member

I should have said "at least" 1 E-ticket @marni1971. Plus, I was trying to think of what TDO would actually do. You're right though, I am frightened by the thought of daily park closures at DHS. Even though Disneyland has more capacity to deal with crowds, I am sure it will be crazy there as well.

It sounds like a retheme is (sadly) headed for Star Tours. So Disney will count this as a new addition to the park, even though no capacity is added.
And even IF they add the Indyland, I am afraid the giant people-eater that is the IJSS, will be sacrificed and the capacity added will only be slightly higher than the capacity removed.
DHS needs capacity quick! DHS is not prepared for the influx of guests. The park is in real trouble, IMHO.
 

MickeyMinnieMom

Well-Known Member
But you and I know that’ll never happen. At best, I’d hope for one more project with an E and a D or C. It’s a real pity because the situation would be MUCH less dire had they updated GMR and built MMRR in Animation Courtyard as we’ve suggested. These poorly-planned snap decisions routinely end up forcing Disney to spend hundreds of millions later. You’d think they would understand that given the mess they’ve created in Epcot. Saving $50m by not updating GMR will end up forcing them to build a new ride elsewhere for much more than $50m, but if it’s in a different FY, that’s fine, right?
While I think some of this sounds a tad too cynical (the FY comment especially, when they are obviously making huge multi-year investments in parks), I wholeheartedly agree re: keeping GMR and adding MMRR elsewhere in DHS. The capacity is needed, especially with the masses that will be headed to DHS for SWGE, and it does not feel like the "best" decision.
 

Marc Davis Fan

Well-Known Member
They absolutely could have replaced both BatB and VotLM with spectacular new shows featuring top-quality sets and amazing special effects, which could have really drawn people over to them. Instead, they did nothing with both shows. (Maybe Disney’s analysis concluded that people will attend the old shows if the park is crowded and they’re looking for something to do, so it won’t accomplish anything to replace them?)

On a different note: I agree with @PorterRedkey that Parachute Drop is a suboptimal attraction, but, with four slightly-shorter-than-the-Paris-version towers at the opposite end of TSL from GE (they could have configured SDD differently to accommodate this), it could have been a decent-capacity addition that avoided the sightline issues and fit aesthetically/thematically in TSL (even if they shouldn’t have built a land where an amusement-park-style ride would fit, they did, and I do not think adding Parachute Drop would have somehow made TSL aesthetically/thematically weaker).

The other thing they can do to add a little bit of capacity is add something of general interest to Pixar Place after the Incredibles event ends. Even if it’s a temporary quick-fix to the area, that still opens up some additional “walking space” in the park (compared to closing the area off and making it backstage again). Personally, keeping it as Municiberg seems fine to me, but maybe there’s something that would work even better.

Finally, why not convert Launch Bay into an explicitly “behind the scenes” exhibit space, with many actual props from the films? That would draw over lots of the Star Wars fans who are visiting the park for GE. To many of them, that would be as exciting as GE itself.
 
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ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
While I think some of this sounds a tad too cynical (the FY comment especially, when they are obviously making huge multi-year investments in parks), I wholeheartedly agree re: keeping GMR and adding MMRR elsewhere in DHS. The capacity is needed, especially with the masses that will be headed to DHS for SWGE, and it does not feel like the "best" decision.
They absolutely make decisions based upon the year and quarter during which money will be spent. Look no further than the GotG and TRON build schedules. If you look at GotG today, do you believe it needs over two more years to build? The building is largely done and track on site. It could easily open for summer 2020. But it won’t. I’m purposely using a round number, but if a ride costs $300 million, spreading that over 3 FYs is more palatable to some than building it in 2 years. I’m no where near the most cynical person on these boards. Just being a realist. The company has known since 2015 that DHS needs more when SWL opens. They begrudgingly allowed MMRR but knew capacity would still be too low and opted to ignore the issue. Here we are, 9 months out from Galaxy’s Edge, with no finite plan in place. So the park will be a mess for AT LEAST 2020 and 2021. Obviously it would be crowded regardless with Galaxy’s Edge’s level of interest, but the resort is wholly unprepared and had ample time to adequately prepare beyond a ski lift and an E ticket at a neighboring park that will open 6 months late. Even the obvious plan to update shows in DHS was delayed too far. What are they thinking? They surely can’t afford to close BatB for a year now, but could have when the park had approximately 4 guests per day in Summer 2018. DL isn’t doing much better but they have fewer options. Benches will be nice, I suppose.
 
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Winter

Well-Known Member
People who are tasteless enough to hate the GMR (and other iconic things like HEA, for instance) don't deserve a proper conversation. We have to stop thinking its "okay" for dissent. This new ride will be great but it doesn't mean the cretins who thought GMR was stale, old, and boring need to crawl out of the wood work and spew their hatred all over the place.
tbh now I wish I didn’t like GMR so I can be one of those “cretins” ;)
 

MickeyMinnieMom

Well-Known Member
They absolutely make decisions based upon the year and quarter during which money will be spent. Look no further than the GotG and TRON build schedules. If you look at GotG today, do you believe it needs over two more years to build? The building is largely done and track on site. It could easily open for summer 2020. But it won’t. I’m purposely using a round number, but if a ride costs $300 million, spreading that over 3 FYs is more palatable to some than building it in 2 years. I’m no where near the most cynical person on these boards. Just being a realist. The company has known since 2015 that DHS needs more when SWL opens. They begrudgingly allowed MMRR but knew capacity would still be too low and opted to ignore the issue. Here we are, 9 months out from Galaxy’s Edge, with no finite plan in place. So the park will be a mess for AT LEAST 2020 and 2021. Obviously it would be crowded regardless with Galaxy’s Edge’s level of interest, but the resort is wholly unprepared and had ample time to adequately prepare beyond a ski lift and an E ticket at a neighboring park that will open 6 months late. Even the obvious plan to update shows in DHS was delayed too far. What are they thinking? They surely can’t afford to close BatB for a year now, but could have when the park had approximately 4 guests per day in Summer 2018. DL isn’t doing much better but they have fewer options. Benches will be nice, I suppose.
You misunderstood, or I didn't fully explain. Of course WDC -- as ANY well-run company does -- takes into account the timing and spreading out of CapEx. That is not illegitimate.

My point was that I do not believe that they shut down GMR just because of short-term FY-end considerations. To the extent that they shut it down because they determined it was too expensive to run, that would have been true in the past and was a going-forward problem -- it wasn't going to get cheaper to operate. They opted to replace it with something cheaper to operate. That's not a FY-end decision. They dial down other costs when it's just a FY end concern -- we see that year over year.

I agree COMPLETELY that there has been poor capacity planning at DHS in particular -- and we'll suffer for it when SWGE opens for sure. I don't write that poor planning off to current-FY-end myopia. It's a larger strategic error which I don't think is connected to the FY-end concerns you cited. I think it's a misjudging of cost vs. benefit on GMR, at least through the first few years of SWGE. I think the benefit of having that GMR capacity (AND adding MMRR) may well have outweighed the cost of continuing to operate it. Feels to me like they made the wrong call.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I wasn't advocating for Parachute Drop, I was just saying that you have to give a little on sight lines for any uncovered attraction that is tall and accept you'll see things you wouldn't be able to see on the ground. I'd like to see TSL expanded. RC racers sounds nice. A playground and/or splash pad with giants games sounds like a no-brainer. There's a whole bunch of the hated but necessary for small children flat rides that can be added. Some can be plussed versions like the swinging carousel (instead of the Parachute Drop).
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
You misunderstood, or I didn't fully explain. Of course WDC -- as ANY well-run company does -- takes into account the timing and spreading out of CapEx. That is not illegitimate.

My point was that I do not believe that they shut down GMR just because of short-term FY-end considerations. To the extent that they shut it down because they determined it was too expensive to run, that would have been true in the past and was a going-forward problem -- it wasn't going to get cheaper to operate. They opted to replace it with something cheaper to operate. That's not a FY-end decision. They dial down other costs when it's just a FY end concern -- we see that year over year.

I agree COMPLETELY that there has been poor capacity planning at DHS in particular -- and we'll suffer for it when SWGE opens for sure. I don't write that poor planning off to current-FY-end myopia. It's a larger strategic error which I don't think is connected to the FY-end concerns you cited. I think it's a misjudging of cost vs. benefit on GMR, at least through the first few years of SWGE. I think the benefit of having that GMR capacity (AND adding MMRR) may well have outweighed the cost of continuing to operate it. Feels to me like they made the wrong call.
Fair enough. I actually am baffled at Disney’s overall perspective on spending. That is, they are generally averse to expansion, presumably because it “costs too much,” but approve new rides with absurd budgets. It is mind-boggling to leave Journey into Imagination in its awful state but approve several hundred million dollars for a Guardians coaster. One would thing frugality would lead to relatively modest updates to existing attractions to revitalize all of Future World at the same (roughly) cost as it will take them to end up with a new 2-minute ride and a still-stagnant Future World West.
 

NiarrNDisney

Well-Known Member
The main reason not to add the Parachute Drop ride (besides sightlines) is that the capacity is abysmal. I think the capacity is around 600-700 guests per hour. I think RC Racers is even worse. If Disney added FastPass+ to the ride (and you know they will!), the lines would be insane. Insane lines for a couple of drops on the tower? I think that might have guests complaining. You could add another tower, but then you double the sightline issues and the expense of doubling up on a cheap, dolled up amusement park ride.

IMHO Parachute Drop need to stay in Paris and Hong Kong and away from DHS. Save the money and build the Indyland instead! There needs to be another large E-ticket in the park to complement SW:GE and MMRR. I believe both will be very popular and this capacity-lacking park is going to suffer and as a result, so will the guest's overall experience.

Which is why it was suggested to build at least two towers for DHS.

Totally agree with a Indy Land hopefully with a large water flume ride like Jurassic Park and maybe the Temple of Peril/Raging Spirits.
 

Franklin47disneyguy

Well-Known Member
I would love to have a new Woody's roundup omnimover and a store for TSL. Then Galaxy's edge should expand with third ride, maybe something more intense then RotR. I heard on the universal forum that they are clearing the backstage offices behind animation courtyard. They can demo those + the then useless garage+ animation courtyard, that is about 14 acres enough to build to more lands. Maybe a incredibles land and a zootopia, with the rumored Indiana jones land DHS will be a good park.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
They have indeed cleared out some offices. I’m unclear on how imminent any change might be. Sometimes they close rides a year or more before actual clearing begins...

Still, this would be very good news if true and these are permanently being emptied. Possibly.
 
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PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
Which is why it was suggested to build at least two towers for DHS.

Totally agree with a Indy Land hopefully with a large water flume ride like Jurassic Park and maybe the Temple of Peril/Raging Spirits.
We can do better than Temple of Peril, even if it is another short, lightly-themed coaster. I would love a water ride at DHS, but I am not sure the Indy ride currently on the table for the park is a water ride.

Have you ridden the Parachute Drop? You spend more time preparing for the ride than actually riding it. Personally, I think the money could be spent better elsewhere. I’ll be surprised if Disney adds anything to Toy Storyland at this point. If anything I think they might add a proper MnG area, but we’ll see.
 

NiarrNDisney

Well-Known Member
We can do better than Temple of Peril, even if it is another short, lightly-themed coaster. I would love a water ride at DHS, but I am not sure the Indy ride currently on the table for the park is a water ride.

Have you ridden the Parachute Drop? You spend more time preparing for the ride than actually riding it. Personally, I think the money could be spent better elsewhere. I’ll be surprised if Disney adds anything to Toy Storyland at this point. If anything I think they might add a proper MnG area, but we’ll see.

The reason I even suggested the Toy Soldier Parachute Drop was to give children who are not tall enough to ride ToT an option for a ride experience that they would not be able to have. Also it would be a nice and different ride experience for Toy Story Land helping to break up the lines at the other popular attraction in the land.
As for the small rollercoaster known as Temple of Peril/ Roaring Spirits - Its another D/E attraction that is easily themed and known in two parks to aid in helping Indy's story which could help for a land. Also it doesnt take up to much room, is easily themed/ renamed to fit a story and looks kinda fun.
 

rle4lunch

Well-Known Member
The reason I even suggested the Toy Soldier Parachute Drop was to give children who are not tall enough to ride ToT an option for a ride experience that they would not be able to have. Also it would be a nice and different ride experience for Toy Story Land helping to break up the lines at the other popular attraction in the land.
As for the small rollercoaster known as Temple of Peril/ Roaring Spirits - Its another D/E attraction that is easily themed and known in two parks to aid in helping Indy's story which could help for a land. Also it doesnt take up to much room, is easily themed/ renamed to fit a story and looks kinda fun.

Would it be like the jellyfish ride at DCA? If so, I'd say that'd be a waste of time. That ride is pretty much dead all the time.
 

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