Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway - Disneyland

[Mickeyboof]

For those people who drink the Americana kool-aid, the international parks are a no-go.

For those who are culturally appreciative, who see the world as a interweaving story where no one character is more important than the other, the international parks are an absolute treat.

There is nothing on this planet like Disneyland Paris park, with its lush story telling, delicious attractions, and a Main Street so soulfully rich you’d think Disneyland proper is cheaply copying it’s interiors.

Tokyo’s park is gleaming celebration of cultural friendship. Celebrating a small world. Main Street as a World Bazaar is a fresh take on a castle parK (fresh takes and reinterpretation is important! Replicas with little inquisitive interpretations leave us with drab castle parks like the Magic Kingdom.)

I love Disney’s international friendships, which was as important to Walt Disney. He always saw the big picture. Disneyland welcomed world travelers with open arms, as America (at the time) had a welcoming culture. Walt himself was no stranger to international expansion.

Friendship is more important than blind nationalism.

 

[Toni25]

For those people who drink the Americana kool-aid, the international parks are a no-go.

For those who are culturally appreciative, who see the world as a interweaving story where no one character is more important than the other, the international parks are an absolute treat.

There is nothing on this planet like Disneyland Paris park, with its lush story telling, delicious attractions, and a Main Street so soulfully rich you’d think Disneyland proper is cheaply copying it’s interiors.

Tokyo’s park is gleaming celebration of cultural friendship. Celebrating a small world. Main Street as a World Bazaar is a fresh take on a castle parK (fresh takes and reinterpretation is important! Replicas with little inquisitive interpretations leave us with drab castle parks like the Magic Kingdom.)

I love Disney’s international friendships, which was as important to Walt Disney. He always saw the big picture. Disneyland welcomed world travelers with open arms, as America (at the time) had a welcoming culture. Walt himself was no stranger to international expansion.

Friendship is more important than blind nationalism.

I love the way you put everything into words, it describes exactly how I feel.
It is such a disappointment to see the fans of the "O.G. Disneyland" have no respect/interest to the legacy that Walt has built.
I mean, come on, clearly we all love and respect the first park he had built, no doubt about it.
The hostility and shallow-mindedness are staggering.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I agree that those who refuse to visit the international parks simply because they are not American are ridiculous.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Does anyone have any news about the actual topic of the thread?

 

[mickEblu]

Disneyland is the best Disney park and it always will be for reasons @BasiltheBatLord and @raven24 mentioned. That doesn’t make us A-holes. I’m sure we all think the Eiffel Tower in Paris is better than the one in Vegas too.

 

[Mickeyboof]

Disneyland is the best Disney park and it always will be for reasons @BasiltheBatLord and @raven24 mentioned. That doesn’t make us A-holes. I’m sure we all think the Eiffel Tower in Paris is better than the one in Vegas too.

Eh sure. The majority of the world thinks the Magic Kingdom is the best, anyways. So who really cares.

 

[TROR]

Yes, people who like Disneyland USA and believe in American exceptionalism are absolute barbarians who see every other nation as racist caricatures because those kinds of people are inherently evil. People with different views from mine are evil.

You sir, are in desperate need of validation throughout the entire forum from what I have seen. CONSTANTLY.

And who are you?

 

[mickEblu]

Eh sure. The majority of the world thinks the Magic Kingdom is the best, anyways. So who really cares.

Who cares what the majority think? That just tells me it’s more popular because it’s more of a tourist destination.

 

[Toni25]

Yes, people who like Disneyland USA and believe in American exceptionalism are absolute barbarians who see every other nation as racist caricatures because those kinds of people are inherently evil. People with different views from mine are evil.

And who are you?

Whenever I see the Lone Ranger comment, I know it's about to get patriotic. Can hear the star spangled banner playing in the background of the speech. Dude, nationalism (of any kind), is so outdated. World War 2 ended a long time ago.
Take a trip around the world...it would be a mind opening experience.

 

[Mickeyboof]

Yes, people who like Disneyland USA and believe in American exceptionalism are absolute barbarians who see every other nation as racist caricatures because those kinds of people are inherently evil. People with different views from mine are evil.

And who are you?

I love Disneyland! I’ve got my annual pass, even through I live clear across the country.

I love that Disneyland is a lasting ember of American culture and world friendship!

What’s odd is that it’s value is seen as wholly American.

 

[TROR]

Whenever I see the Lone Ranger comment, I know it's about to get patriotic. Can hear the star spangled banner playing in the background of the speech. Dude, nationalism (of any kind), is so outdated. World War 2 ended a long time ago.
Take a trip around the world...it would be a mind opening experience.

It's not about nationalism, but about objective good and evil. The values found in American history are better than those in the history of most other nations. I'm not above criticizing the US when it fails, so don't think this is about nationalism, but I'm also not so foolish as to not champion it when it is right. The successes of the United States should be applauded and acknowledge as better than the successes of others when it's true. Call these ideas "outdated" but if you think a world without Truth is the future, then there is no future to be had at all.

 

[Mickeyboof]

It's not about nationalism, but about objective good and evil. The values found in American history are better than those in the history of most other nations. I'm not above criticizing the US when it fails, so don't think this is about nationalism, but I'm also not so foolish as to not champion it when it is right. The successes of the United States should be applauded and acknowledge as better than the successes of others when it's true. Call these ideas "outdated" but if you think a world without Truth is the future, then there is no future to be had at all.

The values were absolutely swell (for white men who owned property)!

 

[PiratesMansion]

I always enjoy talking about the Internationals and I saw an opportunity, so I took it. Sorry to anyone it offends, but in fairness other people had talked about already.

This is definitely a conversation for a different topic, but considering that these forums have basically zero moderation I suppose I'll continue in this thread for the sake of convenience.

I agree with most of what you wrote in your huge list of TDR pros and cons, just some things I wanted comment on:

• "More rule enforcement" is not necessarily a good thing. Thinking about the countless times CM's have ordered me to delete the photo I just took of some incredibly obscure detail in an attraction queue like you mentioned or when I've been told to "sit differently" for a parade for some totally arbitrary reason.
• The food at TDR sucks imo. I am admittedly a very picky eater, but out of the Disney resorts I've been to TDR has by far the least desirable food options.
• TDS is a half-day park to me. There's just not enough to do to make for a fulfilling day.
• I guess it's true that TDR has "better" Monsters Inc. and Pooh rides but I never really understood what the point was of comparing them because they're completely different ride systems with different goals as attractions. The attached IP is somewhat irrelevant to me.
• Agree that TDR has the best Pirates and HM in the world at this point.
• The smaller Star Wars and Marvel presence is nothing to do with OLC wanting to avoid IP saturation (the very definition of the Disney brand in Japan is IP saturation) and everything to do with the fact that both franchises are relatively not that popular in Japan, especially Star Wars.
• I see your point about the lack of a Disney bubble compared to other resorts like WDW or maybe even HKDL, but I think you could argue that enough of a bubble exists to be adequate for the experience. Pretty much as soon as you step off Maihama station you're in a Disney bubble. I mean even the train station songs are Disney themed.
• Agree that ticket flexibility is frustratingly limiting. I have no idea why it's impossible to park hop unless you buy 3 days or more.

I don't know, I fully recognize and agree with the positive points about TDR, but something about it just feels empty. I think part of it is the hollow Americana aspect. Part of it is the fact that the land designs are frankly kind of terrible and stuck in the '80's (feel like nobody talks about this). Part of it is that it does a lot of things well but it doesn't really do anything excellent (except for maintenance and upkeep).


Also... I don't remember ever saying this specifically... I definitely do think TDS is on the whole overrated within the park community though.

You're putting some arguments in my mouth here which I didn't make.

When I mention the Americana element I'm speaking pretty strictly about the castle parks.

I don't doubt people who grew up with World Bazaar perceive it as "soulful" because that's their frame of reference but I think that frame of reference is biast towards an imitation of "the real thing" (being Main Street USA). Main Street was/is a distinctly American concept created to elicit reactions to Americana by Americans (see Disneyland opening dedication). Is that "self-centered?" Sure. But that's what it was intended to be. Does that mean non-Americans can't enjoy a Disney park and its thematic concepts as much as Americans? Of course not. But it isn't quite the same thing. There's some intuitive context missing. Of course, this is all pretty meta-level thinking. 90% of people who go to a Disney park, whether in America or abroad just go to have fun. And that's perfectly fine. But I think on a deeper thematic level there are some things inherently missing in the foreign parks.

I don't really care which park people prefer. There are a whole host of reasons that may influence why any one person has a particular disposition towards one park over another. I'm certainly not trying to make this a competition where I'm trying to tell others that they're "wrong" because they like one park over another. But I think it's an important and often under-discussed topic how there is an inherently American core to the Disney park experience which is not effectively translated to the foreign parks (probably because it is not possible to effectively translate into a foreign culture).

Also for the record, I have no opinion or thoughts on Paris because I've never been there. Looking forward to it one day though.

-Food is definitely a 100% subjective thing, I'll agree there.
-Are you one to explore the parks and appreciate the atmosphere and details? Because if you're someone who likes exploring the details TDS contains multitudes, as does Paris, and that can help fill the day. I feel like that tends to be somewhat underappreciated at DLR simply because there are so many attractions and so many people have been there so many times. But I suppose if you have a ride-centric mentality (not saying you do) you can do what you need to in half a day. But what an attraction lineup though! Far better than most other parks IMO.
-I guess I can see that argument for Monsters; I still find the DLR Pooh ride insulting since it came after TDR's, not that PHH would have ever happened under THAT management team.
-My apologies if I made it sound like the lack of Marvel and Star Wars was some kind of purist OLC choice, but I still think some on here would find that refreshing.
-I recognize the poorer design of the initial areas; hopefully someday they will finally go forward with those redos. I will say that even with their shortcomings TDL FEELS like the American parks (World Bazaar aside, perhaps) in a way that the Chinese parks and even parts of Paris do not. TDL was the last castle park some of those original designers worked on, and I feel like that's tangible. Maybe just me.
-In terms of things the park does an excellent level, I did point out staffing and spending money , but I think you are neglecting to include entertainment at all. Maybe that's not what you value or you've never taken the time, and that's fine, but that's a significant selling point that you didn't really mention at all. I think most people would love to have the parades TDL has here. Nothing on the scale of something like Legend of Mythica has ever really been seen in this country at either Disney park. Big Band Beat is the only theme park show I've ever seen that I genuinely think could find an audience outside of a theme park, it's that good. This is not to say that there is no good entertainment in the US parks, as that's obviously false, but I admire their commitment to huge ideas, huge casts, and trying to tell stories that simply would never be told here.

Disneyland is the best Disney park and it always will be for reasons @BasiltheBatLord and @raven24 mentioned. That doesn’t make us A-holes. I’m sure we all think the Eiffel Tower in Paris is better than the one in Vegas too.

And I respect that many people hold that opinion. However, I again argue that you cannot decide which park is better simply by comparing them from the internet, and that it's fundamentally not much different from the people who say WDW must be better because it has four parks.

Yes, people who like Disneyland USA and believe in American exceptionalism are absolute barbarians who see every other nation as racist caricatures because those kinds of people are inherently evil. People with different views from mine are evil.

And who are you?

You are putting all sorts of words and assumptions into other people's mouths.

 

[TROR]

The values were absolutely swell (for white men who owned property)!

Dang, you’re right, America never abolished slavery based on our value of individual liberty. Dang, man, if only racial slavery didn’t exist anymore in the US then maybe I could’ve had a point, but no, you’re right, we still have racial slavery and nobody is free in this country. Dang, I think China murdering its citizens is ok now and Japan’s pedophelia problem isn’t swell. The US is no better than those countries because we never abolished slavery. Oh wait, we did - liberty is a good value for everyone.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

I genuinely don't understand how we went from "Disneyland is the best Disney park" to being accused of "blind American nationalism" (except @TROR, he's always like that)

 

[Mickeyboof]

Dang, you’re right, America never abolished slavery based on our value of individual liberty. Dang, man, if only racial slavery didn’t exist anymore in the US then maybe I could’ve had a point, but no, you’re right, we still have racial slavery and nobody is free in this country. Dang, I think China murdering its citizens is ok now and Japan’s pedophelia problem isn’t swell. The US is no better than those countries because we never abolished slavery. Oh wait, we did - liberty is a good value for everyone.

Oh! Sorry! By “the values found in American history” I didn’t know you meant our contemporary values.

 

[TROR]

Oh! Sorry! By “the values found in American history” I didn’t know you mean our contemporary values.

Dang, you've got me again. Nobody in 1776 was advocating for abolition. Except, wait, they were!

I'm not going to keep this going. Some people are just always going to be full of hate and trying to change that isn't worth this thread going further over the rails for.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I'm glad that the Imagineers while designing Tokyo Disneyland finally found a good way to transition between Main Street Very Unique World Bazaar and Tomorrowland:

Hey I guess it's better than the Green Wall of Phones of TomorrowTM at Disneyland, after all the sign has both a rocket ship and Pluto on it!

 

[Mickeyboof]

I'm glad that the Imagineers while designing Tokyo Disneyland finally found a good way to transition between Main Street Very Unique World Bazaar and Tomorrowland:
View attachment 471053
Hey I guess it's better than the Green Wall of Phones of TomorrowTM at Disneyland.

this reminds me of Disneyland’s incredible transition between Matterhorn/Tomorrowland and the Hub. You know, that amazing stretch of patio tables and stucco building backsides next to the Matterhorn’s rear.

 

[Mickeyboof]

Dang, you've got me again. Nobody in 1776 was advocating for abolition. Except, wait, they were!

I'm not going to keep this going. Some people are just always going to be full of hate and trying to change that isn't worth this thread going further over the rails for.

I didn’t know that supporting and celebrating world cultures can be defined as hate, but, okay!