Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway - Disneyland

Toni25

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I don't pay attention to the foreign Disney parks aside from whatever they've been doing to get them back open. I'm going to be controversial here, but Disney and especially Disneyland itself is such an American thing, I never got why they built all these resorts overseas except that foreigners basically wanted what we have. I can think of few things more American than Disneyland and the foreign parks slightly tarnish that idea. Just slightly.
I also rarely check out the forums for the American parks, but when I do, I stumble upon "controversial" comments like this.
First of all, so what if Walt was an American? He drew inspiration from all over the world (Europe, obviously, South America, Africa, Asia). Literally Epcot is dedicated to celebrating multiple countries and cultures. Why would the company NOT expand to other countries?
Just to make a point, the best resort in the world is outside America, in Tokyo. Also, design and aesthetic wise, would say Paris beats Magic Kingdom (but lacks the rides, of course, since it rarely had a budget).
Your question could have been "Why would they build any other park besides the original one that Walt built?".
They did it, because Disney cinematography (which was heavily European fairy tale inspired) was INTERNATIONALLY recognized, so they decided to expand on other markets as well. Just because something was conceived in a certain country, it does not mean it's supposed to never leave its borders. Globalization means evolution.
Also, Walt had a fascination with/ and paid a lot of respect for Native American Peoples and had plans to infuse that in certain areas of the park. Now using your logic...if everything was to stay were it belongs, why was America colonized by Europeans? Is it not such an "American thing" to expand all over the world as much as possible? Or maybe that is another "controversial" subject.
 
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George Lucas on a Bench

Well-Known Member
0a4927da643597b33d79d999390c75ef.gif
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Construction will resume for Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway at Disneyland.
Not necessarily. The original article only confirms acceptance of steel deliveries, likely ordered months ago. Whether or not that steel will be erected in the near term is speculation.
 

Mickeyboof

Well-Known Member
I also rarely check out the forums for the American parks, but when I do, I stumble upon "controversial" comments like this.
First of all, so what if Walt was an American? He drew inspiration from all over the world (Europe, obviously, South America, Africa, Asia). Literally Epcot is dedicated to celebrating multiple countries and cultures. Why would the company NOT expand to other countries?
Just to make a point, the best resort in the world is outside America, in Tokyo. Also, design and aesthetic wise, would say Paris beats Magic Kingdom (but lacks the rides, of course, since it rarely had a budget).
Your question could have been "Why would they build any other park besides the original one that Walt built?".
They did it, because Disney cinematography (which was heavily European fairy tale inspired) was INTERNATIONALLY recognized, so they decided to expand on other markets as well. Just because something was conceived in a certain country, it does not mean it's supposed to never leave its borders. Globalization means evolution.
Also, Walt had a fascination with/ and paid a lot of respect for Native American Peoples and had plans to infuse that in certain areas of the park. Now using your logic...if everything was to stay were it belongs, why was America colonized by Europeans? Is it not such an "American thing" to expand all over the world as much as possible? Or maybe that is another "controversial" subject.

This forum is chalk full of garish American hoorah. The best Disney parks, besides the original Disneyland Park, are not found in the glorious United States of America (but you already know that!)

Although, if one doesn't read into the happenings of the parks around the world, one might be happier with the crap they give us here in the USA. Can't wait for the Avengers Campus!

Meanwhile in Tokyo....
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Not necessarily. The original article only confirms acceptance of steel deliveries, likely ordered months ago. Whether or not that steel will be erected in the near term is speculation.
The point I believe that was being made is that you wouldn't purchase and accept delivery of a large steel order if you were going to cancel or even delay the project long term. This indicates the project is moving along once full scale construction resumes.
 

D.Silentu

Well-Known Member
Although, if one doesn't read into the happenings of the parks around the world, one might be happier with the crap they give us here in the USA.
This thought was upon my mind recently as I watched the episode of The Imagineering Story covering the opening of California Adventure and Disneysea in the same year. Your statement was never truer than during that disappointing realization that each park represented opposite ends of the quality spectrum. Rise of the Resistance was pleasantly exceptional, and I am strongly hoping that the Avengers ride will prove to be of a similar ambition.
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
The point I believe that was being made is that you wouldn't purchase and accept delivery of a large steel order if you were going to cancel or even delay the project long term. This indicates the project is moving along once full scale construction resumes.

I didn’t see the article but LP was saying the plan was to erect the shell of the building.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
It would make more sense to look down on the International Parks if they were failed imitations of what the American parks did.

Yet right now the international parks largely execute the fundamentals of the park experience better than the domestic parks for a better price.

In many ways the American parks are cashing in on their legacy, charging the highest possible prices for a product that is increasingly robbed of the very things that made them special. That's not nearly as common abroad.

Otherwise, it's nice to see that something is happening with MMRR. Of course, there's still no guarantee that the thing will ultimately open, but hey, it's one step closer to this being a reality.
 

1HAPPYGHOSTHOST

Well-Known Member
Yet right now the international parks largely execute the fundamentals of the park experience better than the domestic parks for a better price.
NOPE. No other park on the planet EARTH gives you a overall truer and better Disney and Theme Park experience than Walt's original Magic Kingdom, Disneyland. I don't recall Paris or Hong Kong having a 'WALK IN WALT'S FOOTPRINTS" tour.
 

BasiltheBatLord

Well-Known Member
In my view it’s not possible for any international Disney park to be better than the two American ones because those parks aren’t American.

Americana is an essential aspect of a Disney parks and no matter how many times I go to one of the non-American parks I always feel that sense of uncanny whenever I walk down Main Street and it just feels like some kind of foreign imitation that isn’t entirely accurately conveyed in translation (ex. “World Bazaar” instead of Main Street)

Does that mean the international parks don’t do some things better than the American parks? No. Tokyo in particular has a well-deserved reputation for being almost flawless with maintenance and show upkeep compared to the American parks. Some of the foreign parks also have superior versions of some of the classic Disney attractions. But when it comes down to it, the two American parks have that certain soul that none of the others do.

I also worry that a lot of the mouth watering praise that TDR gets on a daily basis is more a form of orientalism casting Japan as “mystical/exotic” by people who have never been there or is just a way of people who have been there bragging about how they’ve been there instead of an actual critique of how TDR operates compared to WDW or DLR.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
In my view it’s not possible for any international Disney park to be better than the two American ones because those parks aren’t American.

Americana is an essential aspect of a Disney parks and no matter how many times I go to one of the non-American parks I always feel that sense of uncanny whenever I walk down Main Street and it just feels like some kind of foreign imitation that isn’t entirely accurately conveyed in translation (ex. “World Bazaar” instead of Main Street)

Does that mean the international parks don’t do some things better than the American parks? No. Tokyo in particular has a well-deserved reputation for being almost flawless with maintenance and show upkeep compared to the American parks. Some of the foreign parks also have superior versions of some of the classic Disney attractions. But when it comes down to it, the two American parks have that certain soul that none of the others do.

I also worry that a lot of the mouth watering praise that TDR gets on a daily basis is more a form of orientalism casting Japan as “mystical/exotic” by people who have never been there or is just a way of people who have been there bragging about how they’ve been there instead of an actual critique of how TDR operates compared to WDW or DLR.
It is your right to see it as a form of Orientalism, but I disagree, at least for me personally. Sometimes the best is just clear as night and day. It also depends on what you need and what you value in the park experience.

But if some people are saying they think TDR is better because of misguided Orientalism, so too do feel like a lot of the people who say the US parks are better are doing so out of misguided nationalism rather than looking at objective quality. Americana is AN aspect of the Disney parks, but not THE aspect of it (and THE aspect is NOT IP, Iger!), certainly not since Eisner took the helm. If more people had been to the Internationals and still felt the American parks were better, as you do, it would be easier for me to understand; but the reality is that many people haven't, for understandable reasons. That's fine. But it also means that people tend to have a lopsided view of the parks and automatically assume that the familiar is better (and we would certainly hope that the version we're most familiar with is the best one!) Even between the US parks you see this: when I was young, I wanted to learn everything about the different Disney theme parks in the world, and it has always surprised me that I'm definitely in the minority on that. It's not hard to look in forums like this and find people who clearly have no idea how anything works at the OTHER US resort, and immediately make all sorts of judgments about which is "better" (read: 99% of the time the first one they went to and/or the one they have been to most). So everyone comes to these conversations with their own biases, conscious or not, myself included.

But anyway, as for a critique of TDR vs. the others? Here's my attempt at a fair take, for the good of the group (I mean, I know you know, but you also like DCA better than TDS, so...;))
TDR Pros:
-Better versions of many attractions, particularly when compared to Floridian versions.
-NOT trying to add FP to every attraction
-Better customer service
-Way more staff
-More rule enforcement
-Day & Night Parades daily (and spectacular ones at that)
-Sitting for parades and spectaculars! Mostly. No children on shoulders!
-Respectful clientele who follow the rules and know how to behave in a theme park! No (or at least minimal) meltdowns!
-Minimal usage of strollers; no battered heels, no massive stroller parking areas...
-Entertainment! So much of it, and so much of it is fantastic! All of it regularly refreshed.
-Seasonal offerings up the wazoo! Food, festivals, parades, all of it included in your admission ticket. No upcharges, no nonsense.
-Maintenance is better, MUCH better! I won't go so far as to say everything is 100% flawless all the time as some would say, but I'd say it's more like 95% of everything in great shape vs. the ~60% the US parks settle for. You know how there are attractions like Splash or Indy that you can make a drinking game out of how often they have regular, predictable issues in the US? Or how HMH leaves all sorts of things out of whack in the regular Mansion once it returns? Doesn't happen over there.
-Prices? Cut them in half. Maybe not for souvenirs, but certainly for admission and food.
-TDS is the best non-castle park in the world, easily. No contest.
-Both parks have enough to occupy you for an entire day. None of this "half day park" nonsense.
-WAY Better Monsters Inc and Pooh rides!
-TDL has the best versions of the US rides in one park. DL (more or less) Pirates and MK Mansion in one park? Heck. Yes.
-Lots of "extra polish" that the US parks have largely not gotten in the past two decades or so.
-Do you ever get tired of seeing Marvel and Star Wars in the parks? That no matter how much Disney tries to make it so, they're Not Disney? Guess what? Tokyo agrees with you! Other than Star Tours being there, Star Wars and Marvel are largely not present at TDR.
-Generally willing to spend more money than the US parks.
-Park operations, characters, design (especially at TDL), service, and overall philosophies skew old school Disney. It can feel like a time warp, usually in the best possible way.
-If an attraction is bad in Tokyo, or doesn't live up to expectations, it is NEVER because of slashed funds, or because an idea wasn't allowed to breathe. There are only a handful of bad attractions, and even the worst of these cannot BEGIN to approach the worst attractions in the US parks.
-"Change for the sake of change" is not a thing when it comes to attractions, unlike the US parks. So you still have the original Pirates auction scene (and the chase scene is likewise still original), a cool old-school Snow White dark ride, the original Haunted Mansion attic scene. Sometimes this can make things feel dated, but most of the time it means the park has been well-insulated from bad creative decisions made in the US parks.

Cons:
-LONG, $$ plane ride to get there!
-The opening day areas of TDL are weak, design-wise. In fairness, a lot of these things are based on designs that the US parks have moved on from (Tomorrowland and Fantasyland used to look like that at MK! Dumbo really did used to look like that at both US parks! And so on) that wouldn't have looked as out of place at the time they were built. The pathways are too wide (see also: EPCOT), the areas aren't as cohesive. Part of this actually matches with Epcot, as said above; part of it is because the park was very much not a priority internally and it was designed by the B-Team; still more because OLC literally went between the parks and picked out the elements they wanted. BUT everything added since then is of a much higher level. There have been plans for a long time to overhaul the original areas, and it's definitely frustrating that they have been trigger shy on that.
-Journey has been hyped to death and probably has single-handedly gifted the world with more anticipointment than any other ride. It took a few rides to really appreciate it after the ludicrous hype it got. ROTR may end up being similar once I finally experience it.
-TDS needs more rides. That said, it certainly has a better collection of rides than any non-Castle park in the US. DCA has more, technically, but most of that "more" is pretty worthless if we're being honest.
-The fireworks suck and never really graduated beyond FITS variations (on the upside, no fighting for a space!); also cancelled a lot. This is probably the one area the US parks consistently do better across the board. They do have very good projection shows, however.
-No food substitutions; rules are Rules in Japan, no matter how seemingly arbitrary; This makes eating in the park for vegetarians and vegans at best highly problematic.
-General, longstanding reluctance to accommodate foreign visitors with things like park apps and online restaurant reservations. This is improving-VERY slowly. In SOME fairness to TDR, this is a culture-wide issue and not unique to the parks.
-Hotel booking, if you want to stay at a Disney hotel, is an at-best convoluted process. But there are also hotels on the monorail line that are nice and cheap, so you can stay close even without staying at a Disney hotel.
-You have to pay for the monorail. I mean, they're WAY nicer and cleaner, and you're still paying far less with tickets & monorail pass than you would be in the States, but some people can't get past that.
-You can't parkhop every day if you buy a parkhopper. You have to choose your parks the first two days. To me this isn't a big deal because hopping isn't that convenient and if you can't find a way to fill a day in those parks, that's on you. But I suppose some people freak out because they can only see Dreamlights 3 out of the 4 nights of their trip or something.
-No real "Disney bubble." Oh well. In fairness, it is in a HIGHLY urban area, moreso than most of the other parks, really.
-Occasional weird rules, like the prohibition of photography in queues that is inconsistently enforced.
-It's not actually owned by Disney, which is A THING for some people. Oh no, it's generally operated better with less price gauging, the horror?!?!?
-Entertainment, while still best in the world, is not quite what it used to be. In particular, TDS hurts badly without Mythica or some kind of regular daily harbor show.
-Ticket days have to be consecutive. THAT's annoying.
-Speaking of tickets, buying them outside of Japan is a pain. Although I've never understood why people who say that couldn't go to the ticket booths the day before or a Disney store once they got to Japan? Once you're in Japan it's super easy. And again, way lower prices!
-No real early entry for anyone. Hotel guests get in 15 minutes early and MAYBE get to ride one thing; more often, they just move ahead of everyone else. Park gates aren't opened for anyone until the minute the park opens, and you have to get there early because there are ALWAYS a huge ton of people at the gate. You can work around this, but it can be irritating. Also, this is not a TDR thing, it's a Japan thing-same scenario at the Golden Pavilion, for example.
-Crazy crowds on weekends, but then again, every single person that has ever been to TDR says to not go on weekends, so I feel like it's kind of your fault if you go and don't know that. Presumably if you're going as tourist you have control over such things. Such hysteria is overblown for weekdays.
-People who aren't familiar with the parks will definitely judge you for going to TDR vs the US parks. Oh well; if it's not their money, who are they to tell you what to do with your life and your trip?

Hopefully this is sufficiently fair and balanced.

I imagine some people are going to look at this and their belief that the domestic parks are better will be reinforced. Personally, I still prefer the Tokyo parks and feel the pros far outweigh the cons. YMMV.
 

Toni25

Well-Known Member
In my view it’s not possible for any international Disney park to be better than the two American ones because those parks aren’t American.

Americana is an essential aspect of a Disney parks and no matter how many times I go to one of the non-American parks I always feel that sense of uncanny whenever I walk down Main Street and it just feels like some kind of foreign imitation that isn’t entirely accurately conveyed in translation (ex. “World Bazaar” instead of Main Street)

Does that mean the international parks don’t do some things better than the American parks? No. Tokyo in particular has a well-deserved reputation for being almost flawless with maintenance and show upkeep compared to the American parks. Some of the foreign parks also have superior versions of some of the classic Disney attractions. But when it comes down to it, the two American parks have that certain soul that none of the others do.

I also worry that a lot of the mouth watering praise that TDR gets on a daily basis is more a form of orientalism casting Japan as “mystical/exotic” by people who have never been there or is just a way of people who have been there bragging about how they’ve been there instead of an actual critique of how TDR operates compared to WDW or DLR.
Tell me more about how Disney Sea feels like an imitation of an american Disney Park 🙃.
When Disneyland Paris tried to recreate a castle in Europe, that was controversial.
What is funny to me, is how self centered the american way of thinking is...literally replicating Americana in America. California Adventures in California.
What does soul REALLY mean? Of course more people will be nostalgic for the original Disneyland because it has been around for longer and more generations got to experience it. For someone that grew up with World Bazaar, that is what they perceive as soulful...who are you to judge that? I bet when those who grew up with a certain imagery, feel put off when they see a variation of it. Stop trying to put other parks down just to imply your point of view. Tony Baxter, who worked on the Big Thunder Mountain (one of the best Imagineers to ever exist) was the one to create the Disneyland in Paris, which has such a charming feel and an intricate story and SOUL behind every inch of detail...yet I bet you think it's because they did not invest MONEY in it and add more rides. Oh, the hypocrisy.

Also, tell me more about how Galaxy's Edge and recreating a boardwalk pier amusement park (which Walt HATED) is FULL OF SOUL. 🙄

Can't you just enjoy the good parts every park in the world has to offer and stop this weird competition of which one is better and shoving the ORIGINAL down our throats? We're not in the 60's anymore.
 
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BasiltheBatLord

Well-Known Member
It is your right to see it as a form of Orientalism, but I disagree, at least for me personally. Sometimes the best is just clear as night and day. It also depends on what you need and what you value in the park experience.

But if some people are saying they think TDR is better because of misguided Orientalism, so too do feel like a lot of the people who say the US parks are better are doing so out of misguided nationalism rather than looking at objective quality. Americana is AN aspect of the Disney parks, but not THE aspect of it (and THE aspect is NOT IP, Iger!), certainly not since Eisner took the helm. If more people had been to the Internationals and still felt the American parks were better, as you do, it would be easier for me to understand; but the reality is that many people haven't, for understandable reasons. That's fine. But it also means that people tend to have a lopsided view of the parks and automatically assume that the familiar is better (and we would certainly hope that the version we're most familiar with is the best one!) Even between the US parks you see this: when I was young, I wanted to learn everything about the different Disney theme parks in the world, and it has always surprised me that I'm definitely in the minority on that. It's not hard to look in forums like this and find people who clearly have no idea how anything works at the OTHER US resort, and immediately make all sorts of judgments about which is "better" (read: 99% of the time the first one they went to and/or the one they have been to most). So everyone comes to these conversations with their own biases, conscious or not, myself included.

But anyway, as for a critique of TDR vs. the others? Here's my attempt at a fair take, for the good of the group (I mean, I know you know, but you also like DCA better than TDS, so...;))
TDR Pros:
-Better versions of many attractions, particularly when compared to Floridian versions.
-NOT trying to add FP to every attraction
-Better customer service
-Way more staff
-More rule enforcement
-Day & Night Parades daily (and spectacular ones at that)
-Sitting for parades and spectaculars! Mostly. No children on shoulders!
-Respectful clientele who follow the rules and know how to behave in a theme park! No (or at least minimal) meltdowns!
-Minimal usage of strollers; no battered heels, no massive stroller parking areas...
-Entertainment! So much of it, and so much of it is fantastic! All of it regularly refreshed.
-Seasonal offerings up the wazoo! Food, festivals, parades, all of it included in your admission ticket. No upcharges, no nonsense.
-Maintenance is better, MUCH better! I won't go so far as to say everything is 100% flawless all the time as some would say, but I'd say it's more like 95% of everything in great shape vs. the ~60% the US parks settle for. You know how there are attractions like Splash or Indy that you can make a drinking game out of how often they have regular, predictable issues in the US? Or how HMH leaves all sorts of things out of whack in the regular Mansion once it returns? Doesn't happen over there.
-Prices? Cut them in half. Maybe not for souvenirs, but certainly for admission and food.
-TDS is the best non-castle park in the world, easily. No contest.
-Both parks have enough to occupy you for an entire day. None of this "half day park" nonsense.
-WAY Better Monsters Inc and Pooh rides!
-TDL has the best versions of the US rides in one park. DL (more or less) Pirates and MK Mansion in one park? Heck. Yes.
-Lots of "extra polish" that the US parks have largely not gotten in the past two decades or so.
-Do you ever get tired of seeing Marvel and Star Wars in the parks? That no matter how much Disney tries to make it so, they're Not Disney? Guess what? Tokyo agrees with you! Other than Star Tours being there, Star Wars and Marvel are largely not present at TDR.
-Generally willing to spend more money than the US parks.
-Park operations, characters, design (especially at TDL), service, and overall philosophies skew old school Disney. It can feel like a time warp, usually in the best possible way.
-If an attraction is bad in Tokyo, or doesn't live up to expectations, it is NEVER because of slashed funds, or because an idea wasn't allowed to breathe. There are only a handful of bad attractions, and even the worst of these cannot BEGIN to approach the worst attractions in the US parks.
-"Change for the sake of change" is not a thing when it comes to attractions, unlike the US parks. So you still have the original Pirates auction scene (and the chase scene is likewise still original), a cool old-school Snow White dark ride, the original Haunted Mansion attic scene. Sometimes this can make things feel dated, but most of the time it means the park has been well-insulated from bad creative decisions made in the US parks.

Cons:
-LONG, $$ plane ride to get there!
-The opening day areas of TDL are weak, design-wise. In fairness, a lot of these things are based on designs that the US parks have moved on from (Tomorrowland and Fantasyland used to look like that at MK! Dumbo really did used to look like that at both US parks! And so on) that wouldn't have looked as out of place at the time they were built. The pathways are too wide (see also: EPCOT), the areas aren't as cohesive. Part of this actually matches with Epcot, as said above; part of it is because the park was very much not a priority internally and it was designed by the B-Team; still more because OLC literally went between the parks and picked out the elements they wanted. BUT everything added since then is of a much higher level. There have been plans for a long time to overhaul the original areas, and it's definitely frustrating that they have been trigger shy on that.
-Journey has been hyped to death and probably has single-handedly gifted the world with more anticipointment than any other ride. It took a few rides to really appreciate it after the ludicrous hype it got. ROTR may end up being similar once I finally experience it.
-TDS needs more rides. That said, it certainly has a better collection of rides than any non-Castle park in the US. DCA has more, technically, but most of that "more" is pretty worthless if we're being honest.
-The fireworks suck and never really graduated beyond FITS variations (on the upside, no fighting for a space!); also cancelled a lot. This is probably the one area the US parks consistently do better across the board. They do have very good projection shows, however.
-No food substitutions; rules are Rules in Japan, no matter how seemingly arbitrary; This makes eating in the park for vegetarians and vegans at best highly problematic.
-General, longstanding reluctance to accommodate foreign visitors with things like park apps and online restaurant reservations. This is improving-VERY slowly. In SOME fairness to TDR, this is a culture-wide issue and not unique to the parks.
-Hotel booking, if you want to stay at a Disney hotel, is an at-best convoluted process. But there are also hotels on the monorail line that are nice and cheap, so you can stay close even without staying at a Disney hotel.
-You have to pay for the monorail. I mean, they're WAY nicer and cleaner, and you're still paying far less with tickets & monorail pass than you would be in the States, but some people can't get past that.
-You can't parkhop every day if you buy a parkhopper. You have to choose your parks the first two days. To me this isn't a big deal because hopping isn't that convenient and if you can't find a way to fill a day in those parks, that's on you. But I suppose some people freak out because they can only see Dreamlights 3 out of the 4 nights of their trip or something.
-No real "Disney bubble." Oh well. In fairness, it is in a HIGHLY urban area, moreso than most of the other parks, really.
-Occasional weird rules, like the prohibition of photography in queues that is inconsistently enforced.
-It's not actually owned by Disney, which is A THING for some people. Oh no, it's generally operated better with less price gauging, the horror?!?!?
-Entertainment, while still best in the world, is not quite what it used to be. In particular, TDS hurts badly without Mythica or some kind of regular daily harbor show.
-Ticket days have to be consecutive. THAT's annoying.
-Speaking of tickets, buying them outside of Japan is a pain. Although I've never understood why people who say that couldn't go to the ticket booths the day before or a Disney store once they got to Japan? Once you're in Japan it's super easy. And again, way lower prices!
-No real early entry for anyone. Hotel guests get in 15 minutes early and MAYBE get to ride one thing; more often, they just move ahead of everyone else. Park gates aren't opened for anyone until the minute the park opens, and you have to get there early because there are ALWAYS a huge ton of people at the gate. You can work around this, but it can be irritating. Also, this is not a TDR thing, it's a Japan thing-same scenario at the Golden Pavilion, for example.
-Crazy crowds on weekends, but then again, every single person that has ever been to TDR says to not go on weekends, so I feel like it's kind of your fault if you go and don't know that. Presumably if you're going as tourist you have control over such things. Such hysteria is overblown for weekdays.
-People who aren't familiar with the parks will definitely judge you for going to TDR vs the US parks. Oh well; if it's not their money, who are they to tell you what to do with your life and your trip?

Hopefully this is sufficiently fair and balanced.

I imagine some people are going to look at this and their belief that the domestic parks are better will be reinforced. Personally, I still prefer the Tokyo parks and feel the pros far outweigh the cons. YMMV.
This is definitely a conversation for a different topic, but considering that these forums have basically zero moderation I suppose I'll continue in this thread for the sake of convenience.

I agree with most of what you wrote in your huge list of TDR pros and cons, just some things I wanted comment on:
  • "More rule enforcement" is not necessarily a good thing. Thinking about the countless times CM's have ordered me to delete the photo I just took of some incredibly obscure detail in an attraction queue like you mentioned or when I've been told to "sit differently" for a parade for some totally arbitrary reason.
  • The food at TDR sucks imo. I am admittedly a very picky eater, but out of the Disney resorts I've been to TDR has by far the least desirable food options.
  • TDS is a half-day park to me. There's just not enough to do to make for a fulfilling day.
  • I guess it's true that TDR has "better" Monsters Inc. and Pooh rides but I never really understood what the point was of comparing them because they're completely different ride systems with different goals as attractions. The attached IP is somewhat irrelevant to me.
  • Agree that TDR has the best Pirates and HM in the world at this point.
  • The smaller Star Wars and Marvel presence is nothing to do with OLC wanting to avoid IP saturation (the very definition of the Disney brand in Japan is IP saturation) and everything to do with the fact that both franchises are relatively not that popular in Japan, especially Star Wars.
  • I see your point about the lack of a Disney bubble compared to other resorts like WDW or maybe even HKDL, but I think you could argue that enough of a bubble exists to be adequate for the experience. Pretty much as soon as you step off Maihama station you're in a Disney bubble. I mean even the train station songs are Disney themed. 🤨
  • Agree that ticket flexibility is frustratingly limiting. I have no idea why it's impossible to park hop unless you buy 3 days or more.

I don't know, I fully recognize and agree with the positive points about TDR, but something about it just feels empty. I think part of it is the hollow Americana aspect. Part of it is the fact that the land designs are frankly kind of terrible and stuck in the '80's (feel like nobody talks about this). Part of it is that it does a lot of things well but it doesn't really do anything excellent (except for maintenance and upkeep).

but you also like DCA better than TDS, so...;)
Also... I don't remember ever saying this specifically... I definitely do think TDS is on the whole overrated within the park community though.
Tell me more about how Disney Sea feels like an imitation of an american Disney Park 🙃.
When Disneyland Paris tried to recreate a castle in Europe, that was controversial.
What is funny to me, is how self centered the american way of thinking is...literally replicating Americana in America. California Adventures in California.
What does soul REALLY mean? Of course more people will be nostalgic for the original Disneyland because it has been around for longer and more generations got to experience it. For someone that grew up with World Bazaar, that is what they perceive as soulful...who are you to judge that? I bet when those who grew up with a certain imagery, feel put off when they see a variation of it. Stop trying to put other parks down just to imply your point of view. Tony Baxter, who worked on the Big Thunder Mountain (one of the best Imagineers to ever exist) was the one to create the Disneyland in Paris, which has such a charming feel and an intricate story and SOUL behind every inch of detail...yet I bet you think it's **** because they did not invest MONEY in it and add more rides. Oh, the hypocrisy.

Also, tell me more about how Galaxy's Edge and recreating a boardwalk pier amusement park (which Walt HATED) is FULL OF SOUL. 🙄

Can't you just enjoy the good parts every park in the world has to offer and stop this weird competition of which one is better and shoving the ORIGINAL down our throats? We're not in the 60's anymore.
You're putting some arguments in my mouth here which I didn't make.

When I mention the Americana element I'm speaking pretty strictly about the castle parks.

I don't doubt people who grew up with World Bazaar perceive it as "soulful" because that's their frame of reference but I think that frame of reference is biast towards an imitation of "the real thing" (being Main Street USA). Main Street was/is a distinctly American concept created to elicit reactions to Americana by Americans (see Disneyland opening dedication). Is that "self-centered?" Sure. But that's what it was intended to be. Does that mean non-Americans can't enjoy a Disney park and its thematic concepts as much as Americans? Of course not. But it isn't quite the same thing. There's some intuitive context missing. Of course, this is all pretty meta-level thinking. 90% of people who go to a Disney park, whether in America or abroad just go to have fun. And that's perfectly fine. But I think on a deeper thematic level there are some things inherently missing in the foreign parks.

I don't really care which park people prefer. There are a whole host of reasons that may influence why any one person has a particular disposition towards one park over another. I'm certainly not trying to make this a competition where I'm trying to tell others that they're "wrong" because they like one park over another. But I think it's an important and often under-discussed topic how there is an inherently American core to the Disney park experience which is not effectively translated to the foreign parks (probably because it is not possible to effectively translate into a foreign culture).

Also for the record, I have no opinion or thoughts on Paris because I've never been there. Looking forward to it one day though.
 
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Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Can't you just enjoy the good parts every park in the world has to offer and stop this weird competition of which one is better and shoving the ORIGINAL down our throats? We're not in the 60's anymore.

No one is “shoving the ORIGINAL down” anyone’s throat. No one here has said anything to the likes of, you can only enjoy Disneyland and Disneyland only.

If you enjoy the international parks, that’s awesome. Continue visiting because that’s what makes you happy. Some people aren’t super motivated to visit the international parks, myself included. I’m not motivated to visit the Florida parks either.🤷🏾‍♀️ There’s no point in trying to convince people. You’ve stated your opinion, great. There are others who disagree. Accept it.

Many hardcore Disneyland fans are known to be loyalists and base that loyalty on the simple fact that it is the original Disney parkas therefore the only one that was built when Walt Disney was alive. Literally no other park has that kind of history, DCA included. For these fans, there’s no way of changing their minds because you can’t go back in time and change history. It is what it is.

You’ve gotten a nice glimpse of this sub-forum, and it seems you’ve lurked before. You knew what to expect and if you didn’t, now you do. Either accept what people have to say or don’t and be in your feelings.🤷🏾‍♀️ Either way, I hope you’re having a good day.
 

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