Micheal Eisner...

TrojanUSC

Well-Known Member
The number say otherwise when you compare the money they pulled in from rereleasing movies vs outright sales of the movies on VHS. The Disney Vault you speak of was created after the made the Eisner move and dumped the movies onto the market. It was an attempt to put the genie back in the bottle. If they had never sold the classics (Snow White, Cinderella, Peter Pan etc.) they could have easily kept printing money year after year. Rerelease Disney classic every quarter over and over... And the market studies supported that plan. There are only a certain type of Disney movie that wouldn't have worked because they would have been dated, like the awful life action movie such as Super Dad. What you are failing to realize is that while a family wouldn't take little Billy to see Peter Pan every year, by the time they release Peter Pan 7 years later little Billy was no longer their target audience it was now little Billy's little brother or the neighbor's kid. So think a family wouldn't go back doesn't hold up, the years that they did those types of releases proved that it was a viable strategy.

I don't think you work in the industry. I do - at a very high level. There has been lots of studies on the revenue streams of home entertainment vs. theatrical and how to properly capitalize on them both. Yes there is a core group of fans who may go to a re-release of Cinderella or Snow White, but not in the way you think - especially when there is a massive amount of competition with new films each week and only limited screens. Bottom line is that home entertainment opened a new revenue stream for Disney in a way that didn't exist previously by taking movies that were sitting on a shelf and essentially creating cash out of thin air with existing products.

Again, had Disney not gotten into the home entertainment businesses, shareholders and industry analysts would have been exceptionally critical of why such demand was not being met. Disney isn't unique in having in-demand IP. Every other studio had the same issue with their own flagship properties and all opted to release on VHS in some manner.

Many of the films you know/love today, including many of Disney's, were middling box office successes and it's only because of cable airings or VHS availability that they have gone on to enormous success as beloved films.
 
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thomas998

Well-Known Member
I don't think you work in the industry. I do - at a very high level. There has been lots of studies on the revenue streams of home entertainment vs. theatrical and how to properly capitalize on them both. Yes there is a core group of fans who may go to a re-release of Cinderella or Snow White, but not in the way you think - especially when there is a massive amount of competition with new films each week and only limited screens. Bottom line is that home entertainment opened a new revenue stream for Disney in a way that didn't exist previously by taking movies that were sitting on a shelf and essentially creating cash out of thin air with existing products.

Again, had Disney not gotten into the home entertainment businesses, shareholders and industry analysts would have been exceptionally critical of why such demand was not being met. Disney isn't unique in having in-demand IP. Every other studio had the same issue with their own flagship properties and all opted to release on VHS in some manner.

Many of the films you know/love today, including many of Disney's, were middling box office successes and it's only because of cable airings or VHS availability that they have gone on to enormous success as beloved films.
The problem is you are trying to use the current market as a proxy of how it was back in the late 80's when Eisner was chasing the quick buck. As I stated earlier I did not work for Disney, I did have several friends that worked at Disney one of which was in the group doing the analysis for Eisner's project. I was told that the number didn't support what Eisner was doing and the analysis showed a better long term return if they didn't put their classics out on video for purchase.
 

TrojanUSC

Well-Known Member
The problem is you are trying to use the current market as a proxy of how it was back in the late 80's when Eisner was chasing the quick buck. As I stated earlier I did not work for Disney, I did have several friends that worked at Disney one of which was in the group doing the analysis for Eisner's project. I was told that the number didn't support what Eisner was doing and the analysis showed a better long term return if they didn't put their classics out on video for purchase.

Again, that is hearsay and incorrect. There is not a big enough market to keep rereleasing features in theaters on a recurring basis. Additionally, many of the films we think of as "classics" today are only so because of the home video market, as their initial theatrical run was a failure. It's a fact of doing business.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Is there any reason why the Disney family doesn't still own a lot of stock or at least help run things? Roy Disney Jr. seemed to be the last person that had a say in things as neither of the grandchildren seem to have wanted to do anything.

Over time, an individual's holdings can diminish if steps aren't taken to acquire additional shares. At the time of the Pixar deal with Jobs, I believe Roy, Jrs. equity position was 1%.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Again, that is hearsay and incorrect. There is not a big enough market to keep rereleasing features in theaters on a recurring basis. Additionally, many of the films we think of as "classics" today are only so because of the home video market, as their initial theatrical run was a failure. It's a fact of doing business.

Fantasia being an excellent example. Walt's favorite film wasn't successful at the box office.

And there are many others, like that Christmas perennial, It's a Wonderful Life. Which didn't earn enough at the box office to break even.
 

2351metalcloud

Active Member
Nope.... The general breakdown in the 80's when Eisner was putting his evil plan in place was a distributor got 70% of the box office receipts the first 2 weeks of a film release. Now a ticket was only $4 dollars back then so about $2.80 per ticket, but then a family of 4 goes to the theater and its $11.20 to Disney. While a VHS movie would net companies 30% profit, and on a $20VHS that is only $6 per movie and the family of 4 doesn't need to buy 4 movies just 1 so the number say that Disney would be better off with movies in the long-run.

While my number are just based on generalization of how it was, my belief that Eisner gave up money for a short term pop was based on a friend I went to graduate school with, he previously worked for Disney and I recall when the case study on Disney came up in class he unloaded on the stupidity of what Eisner had done. Apparently he was in the group that ran the number and it was clear to everyone that Eisner was just going for a short-term windfall. You'll notice that when Eisner released the movie that he pretty much dumped them all on the market at once to maximize the short term impact. The current management has gone back to a marketing plan more like the original where they release old movies for a limited time before supposedly putting them back in the vault... Not a perfect method of replicating the past but there is no way they could ever return to the original method now that so many millions of their movies are floating around the world on DVDs.

I wonder how much influence people's familiarity with certain Disney movies due to owning them on home video tapes or discs has had through out time on their desire to see live action remakes of the movies in theaters that have come out recently. The effect of this desire compared to the decision to release movies on home video rather not releasing them like that, but rather continue to show some movies previously released in theaters periodically is something interesting to consider. However there I imagine there is still the influence of television airings to take into consideration. Also I think it would be interesting to consider the effect through out time on the desire of people to purchase merchandise relating to a movie besides home video tapes and discs and the relation of that to this decision regarding movies previously in theaters to be released on home video or rather to not have a home video release and to continue a periodic release of these movies in theaters. Again, there I imagine there is still the influence of television airings to take into consideration.

I wonder what the thoughts were at Disney at times about people becoming more familiar with some other non-Disney movies and tv shows released on home video than they would be with certain Disney movies and tv shows if certain Disney movies and tv shows weren't released on home video. I could imagine that the decisions regarding releasing Disney movies and tv shows on home video might have been influenced by the idea that there might be some children that would become more familiar with the movie The Land Before Time than some Disney movies and tv shows due to being able to watch it on home video while not being able to do so with some Disney movies and tv shows. This would still be influenced by decisions by Disney regarding the airing of Disney movies and tv shows on television. I don't know that much regarding the history of that.


Thank all for the interesting information posted. That was interesting to read about although I wish you all could have posted some references to where you all are getting your information from, but maybe some of what you guys got information from is from memory and may be hard or not possible to find reference to on the internet.

thomas998, slappy magoo, and trojanjustin what do either of you think about the history of Disney airing movies on television that were originally released in theaters? If you know much about it, I'd be interested to read some of what any of you think about the history of this when Michael Eisner was in charge and possibly at other time periods.
 
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TrojanUSC

Well-Known Member
thomas998, slappy magoo, and trojanjustin what do either of you think about the history of Disney airing movies on television that were originally released in theaters? If you know much about it, I'd be interested to read some of what any of you think about the history of this when Michael Eisner was in charge and possibly at other time periods.

Disney certainly didn't start the trend of showing their theatrical films on television, it had been happening many years before Eisner. Like with home video, television airings took many middling theatrical successes and turned them into beloved classics. Most famously, The Wizard of Oz didn't become as big a hit as expected during its initial theatrical run, it wasn't until repeated airings each year on broadcast that it became such a beloved film. The same holds true for Willy Wonka, which barely made a blip at the box office. Disney had many of these, as well. Home video did the same thing with a new crop of films.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
thomas998, slappy magoo, and trojanjustin what do either of you think about the history of Disney airing movies on television that were originally released in theaters? If you know much about it, I'd be interested to read some of what any of you think about the history of this when Michael Eisner was in charge and possibly at other time periods.

I'm afraid I don't exactly understand the question, and if you're specifically talking about the "animated classics" or any and all Disney movies, the live-action, the docs, etc.

Speaking anecdotally, some of my fonder memories of being a child in the 1970s was watching The Wonderful World of Disney, even though if/when they showed movies they were the live-action movies, often broken up into 2 nights (the agony of waiting). The animated classics were usually only represented in clip shows, not the entire movie with a few exceptions like Dumbo. I know the clips were intended to keep appetites whetted for the theatrical re-releases. They indeed felt special.

But even when I was a teenager in the 80s and in my 20s in the 90s, the ability to rent or even buy one of the classic animated films on VHS seemed miraculous. The ability to watch a movie I love any time does not in my opinion diminish the movie, and quite frankly I think Disney could still do boutique re-releases of certain titles that they've vaulted before an inevitable home video rerelease. This is especially true in the era of things like Fathom Events - a multiweek re-release might not be as lucrative but a one or two night boutique "event?" I wonder how the Studio Ghibli series did earlier this year?

What I find more egregious is how now, the animated classics could wind up airing on any number of the Disney owned channels literally anytime. Alice in Wonderland at 2:30 on a Sunday on Freeform with little to no fanfare, that sort of thing. i find that to belittle their importance to the Disney legacy more than its availability on VHS/DVD/Blu/Streaming. But however some prior execs might have felt at one time, according to one person, about Disney classics on home video, it was inevitable. Maybe Eisner could have made Disney more money had he tried to hold off a few more years, but there was just no guarantee keeping animated movies out of stores and in theaters would have translated into more money.

In fact, one could argue that as tastes and technologies evolved, some movies might not have aged well at all and re-releases would not have been lucrative and faced a backlash. There are already some of the racial issues not just with the most obvious example of Song of the South, but the birds in Dumbo, the Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp (and Paul Winchell "lolling" his r's in The Aristocats). The inherent helplessness of earlier princess movies was already a controversy in the 60s and 70s as women's lib changed attitudes, to say nothing of the fact the princesses were often teens getting married, not an issue for the times they're set, not even a big deal for the time the movies were released, but movies celebrating the marriage of a 16 year old? Even to a prince? Even if she's been exposed to magic, or is a mermaid? Doesn't seem all that p.c.

So the move to home video ensured there would never be high profile flop of a re-release. The Vault allows Disney to create a demand and then provide a supply if they choose, having a movie like The Rescuers perennially available means that copies are perennially sold, as well as aired on TV (even though the money's usually paid by Disney to Disney). Would 7 years of video sales and TV rights equal the profits of a single release with all the publicity and marketing that would go into it? I don't know Disney doesn't tell me anything. But the fasct that they keep selling videos instead of trying to clamp the genie back in the bottle - which they could do anytime they wanted - and go to a theaters only presentation or theaters only, on video for 3 months, back in the vault you snooze you lose, tells me they do all right this way.
 

FettFan

Well-Known Member
Micheal Eisner was cancer to Disney. Walt Disney I guarantee would have never hired someone line that. People like the part of Disney created by Walt not Eisner. Its too bad the Disney family don't own enough stock to take the company back from these people.

B.S.

Eisner gave us the Disney Decade and the Disney Renaissance. He actually worked to expand and improve the parks, and didn't rely on just buying out everything else and shoehorning it in to improve the bottom line like the idiocy that is shoving Guardians of the Galaxy in Epcot Center or James Cameron's Avatar in Animal Kingdom.

And at least Eisner's version of Test Track was actually educational. The current one is a Tron-inspired piece of crap.
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
I'm actually surprised I don't have more misspelling given most of the posts were from a phone that's about two sizes too small for my hands.

I would love to see it your way, but I tend to hate posters who state their opinion as a fact. Eisner was good for Disney overall. Was he perfect? No. For that matter was Roy? Disney wouldn't have needed the rescue if all was well when he took the helm.
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
MDE is accidentally partially responsible for the great name Splash Mountain! It was supposed to be called Zip-a-Dee River Run, which is clumsy and stupid. But Michael, in early signs of weakness, wanted the ride to synergize with the 1984 Tom Hanks's film Splash. Luckily no physical changes to the ride itself passed, but the name Splash Mountain did.

Thanks for the trivia, I didn't know that.
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
The problem is you are trying to use the current market as a proxy of how it was back in the late 80's when Eisner was chasing the quick buck. As I stated earlier I did not work for Disney, I did have several friends that worked at Disney one of which was in the group doing the analysis for Eisner's project. I was told that the number didn't support what Eisner was doing and the analysis showed a better long term return if they didn't put their classics out on video for purchase.

Hmm did the group also conclude that the video sales made a ton of money for Disney when they were in the hole? Second guessing is great, but action tends to get results which is what Disney needed.
 

FettFan

Well-Known Member
Eisner: Norway pavilion was added to World Showcase.
Iger: Maelstrom ripped out of Norway in favor of Frozen, a ride that SHOULD have been put in the Magic Kingdom.


Eisner: Partnership with George Lucas to get Star Tours. Partnership also leads to criticism from Lucas about "Nostromo", to which Eisner listens and decides to create "Alien Encounter" in its place.
Iger: Buys Lucasfilm, shuts down LucasArts and gives the Star Wars franchise to those jackasses at E.A. so they can install pay-to-win on everything. Furthermore, shuts down LucasBooks and wipes away the existing Expanded Universe to create the sequel trilogy.....which ruined Luke Skywalker.


Eisner: Creation of a multitude of themed resort hotels from the elegant Swan and Dolphin to the adventurous Wilderness and Animal Kingdom lodges.
Iger: DVC-only expansions to those hotels and completion of the second half of Pop Century which became Art of Animation. Only two new hotels being built, only one of which is actually themed (Star Wars), the other (The Riviera) is bland and sterile and looks like something that belongs on International Drive or Irlo Bronson Highway.
 
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Cmdr_Crimson

Well-Known Member
Eisner: Norway pavilion was added to World Showcase.
Iger: Maelstrom ripped out of Norway in favor of Frozen, a ride that SHOULD have been put in the Magic Kingdom.


Eisner: Partnership with George Lucas to get Star Tours. Partnership also leads to criticism from Lucas about "Nostromo", to which Eisner listens and decides to create "Alien Encounter" in its place.
Iger: Buys Lucasfilm, shuts down LucasArts and gives the Star Wars franchise to those jackasses at E.A. so they can install pay-to-win on everything. Furthermore, shuts down LucasBooks and wipes away the existing Expanded Universe to create the sequel trilogy.....which ruined Luke Skywalker.


Eisner: Creation of a multitude of themed resort hotels from the elegant Swan and Dolphin to the adventurous Wilderness and Animal Kingdom lodges.
Iger: DVC-only expansions to those hotels and completion of the second half of Pop Century which became Art of Animation. Only two new hotels being built, only one of which is actually themed (Star Wars), the other (The Riviera) is bland and sterile and looks like something that belongs on International Drive or Irlo Bronson Highway.

Eisner: Wants to make Sequels of Classic Animated Movies...
Iger: Wants to make Live Action Adaptations of Classic Animated Movies..
 

TwilightZone

Well-Known Member
Eisner: Norway pavilion was added to World Showcase.
Iger: Maelstrom ripped out of Norway in favor of Frozen, a ride that SHOULD have been put in the Magic Kingdom.


Eisner: Partnership with George Lucas to get Star Tours. Partnership also leads to criticism from Lucas about "Nostromo", to which Eisner listens and decides to create "Alien Encounter" in its place.
Iger: Buys Lucasfilm, shuts down LucasArts and gives the Star Wars franchise to those jackasses at E.A. so they can install pay-to-win on everything. Furthermore, shuts down LucasBooks and wipes away the existing Expanded Universe to create the sequel trilogy.....which ruined Luke Skywalker.


Eisner: Creation of a multitude of themed resort hotels from the elegant Swan and Dolphin to the adventurous Wilderness and Animal Kingdom lodges.
Iger: DVC-only expansions to those hotels and completion of the second half of Pop Century which became Art of Animation. Only two new hotels being built, only one of which is actually themed (Star Wars), the other (The Riviera) is bland and sterile and looks like something that belongs on International Drive or Irlo Bronson Highway.
Eisner: created sounds dangerous
Iger: removed sounds dangerous
 

FoozieBear

Well-Known Member
Eisner: Norway pavilion was added to World Showcase.
Iger: Maelstrom ripped out of Norway in favor of Frozen, a ride that SHOULD have been put in the Magic Kingdom.

Eisner: Derailed relationship with Pixar
Iger: Fixed relationship with Pixar, purchased the company and instated their legacy

Eisner: Opened three Disney theme parks
Iger: Opened one Disney theme park

Eisner: Eats hot dog with ketchup
Iger: Eats hot dog with mustard

They all have their pros and cons.
 

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