MiceAge on the latest news regarding MyMagic+ : Read it and weep.

[flynnibus]

Thank you for correcting me. I knew I was mostly current with the chips but I am bad at the difference between HF and UHF, and other aspects.

The HF chip that was dumped is the chip most likely used for the room key. But because it has encrypted payload.. and we don't know more about the POS terminals used.. you can't really tell if it's the same chip used for purchasing/FP+/etc. Given both those systems are requiring near-contact - it's likely they are.. but we can't be certain. But the HF chip is most likely the one used for room keys, because the ISO standard developed for hotel key locks do use the 13.56MHz (HF) frequency. Disney is probably using off the shelf systems for the hotel locks.

 

[ford91exploder]

You know, I wonder if you could actually make a generator that mimics and bruteforces the magic band XML data and thus "extract" the information the server sends of the client.
I wonder if the exchange is always password protected by the client pin or a employee pin.

Short answer is YES,

 

[ford91exploder]

The HF chip that was dumped is the chip most likely used for the room key. But because it has encrypted payload.. and we don't know more about the POS terminals used.. you can't really tell if it's the same chip used for purchasing/FP+/etc. Given both those systems are requiring near-contact - it's likely they are.. but we can't be certain. But the HF chip is most likely the one used for room keys, because the ISO standard developed for hotel key locks do use the 13.56MHz (HF) frequency. Disney is probably using off the shelf systems for the hotel locks.

Since Disney has not changed the lock mechanisms since the MB installation it is almost certain they are, it is of course possible that Disney has dual-band door locks, Note I was at AKL when they did the changeover from magstripe locks to RFID locks. Went to park in morning with magstripe came back to RFID in evening.

 

[StageFrenzy]

Bottom line when you reach the hub make sure you run around it 3 times. Also make two more circles at 11 and 1o'clock to let the execs know you really love Disney.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Speaking of the bands.
Do you think the bands have information in them stored or they are just an identification number that connects to a database using Disney's own network?



Id honestly suggest something like "just reserve 30 minutes every 4 hours exclusively for fast pass members.." in mayor attractions.

Example..
9:00am entry is just for fastpass members, once the the line is cleared of these clients.. the fastpass line is closed and the normal line is opened..
at 1:45pm the normal line closes, and the fast pass line opens.. once the normal line is cleared.. the fastpass start to get in at the scheduled hour.
The point is using escalated hours exclusive to FastPass (different ones in each mayor attractions) that benefit the fastpass hours..
Example..
Attraction A as 9:00 am, Attraction B as 10:00am.. Attraction C as 11:00am and so on.. (no more than 4 attractions having the same fastpass hour so they can control where the people with fastpass move.. aka effective crowd control)

@lentesta, would this be how you would model sending 40K people around the park? It's definitely possible to have every person schedule every component of their day through Fastpass (or some variant). If they miss an attraction, too bad, but it's definitely possible. The way to do this for people that don't have a reservation would be to prioritize 100% of the Fastpass line at every attraction, only allowing standby through as a last resort.

Of course, what also worked was the legacy distribution rules, and they didn't require scheduling everything in advance.

 

[lentesta]

@lentesta, would this be how you would model sending 40K people around the park? It's definitely possible to have every person schedule every component of their day through Fastpass (or some variant). If they miss an attraction, too bad, but it's definitely possible. The way to do this for people that don't have a reservation would be to prioritize 100% of the Fastpass line at every attraction, only allowing standby through as a last resort.

Of course, what also worked was the legacy distribution rules, and they didn't require scheduling everything in advance.

That's an interesting idea, and an interesting possibility. I don't think I've been to a park which implements it, though. Are there examples?

The most we've modeled is 40,000 families in the MK simultaneously - 120,000 people (we assumed families have 3 people).

Our models didn't make any special assumptions beyond the availability of legacy FASTPASS at historically average distribution rates. We made assumptions about how close people followed the touring plans and how that impacted lines (including the possibility that some people weren't going to be anywhere near the schedule). And our simulation didn't ever enforce the park's closing time, because it wasn't what we were testing. That's a big asterisk.

But yeah, I agree that it's possible to simulate 40K people in the parks.

Len

 

[Bairstow]

So what's the critical number of families that causes a catastrophic collapse of the entire park into the utilidoors?

 

[Voxel]

So what's the critical number of families that causes a catastrophic collapse of the entire park into the utilidoors?

135,642 guest. Not a guest less and not a guest more.

 

[RSoxNo1]

That's an interesting idea, and an interesting possibility. I don't think I've been to a park which implements it, though. Are there examples?

The most we've modeled is 40,000 families in the MK simultaneously - 120,000 people (we assumed families have 3 people).

Our models didn't make any special assumptions beyond the availability of legacy FASTPASS at historically average distribution rates. We made assumptions about how close people followed the touring plans and how that impacted lines (including the possibility that some people weren't going to be anywhere near the schedule). And our simulation didn't ever enforce the park's closing time, because it wasn't what we were testing. That's a big asterisk.

But yeah, I agree that it's possible to simulate 40K people in the parks.

Len

I'll throw this out as an example for the Magic Kingdom as a hybrid of what I'm thinking and what @Cesar R M suggested. It is wildly impractical, the question is more "is it possible".

It would rely on Fastpass distribution being made at a much higher rate than the current distribution rates (which let's say for the sake of this are at 60% of hourly capacity). If you increase the distribution to 80-90% of an attraction's capacity, enforce tighter return windows and prioritize Fastpass over Standby (or eliminate standby entirely) it's conceivable to schedule every attraction at the park with minimal waits.

Say every guest at MK gets 20 attractions, but return times are reduced to 20 minute windows. In a 12 hour day, that would create 36 possible return windows. I would assume @lentesta's optimizing tool could be modified to test this, it's essentially what they're already doing. Comparatively, Disney could request the attractions that you want to prioritize, take the expected arrival time and send people around the parks accordingly.

In theory Disney could "guarantee" spots on attractions provided that you make your arrival time at the park. If you show up late, you run the risk of missing the first few attractions you scheduled.

 

[Joe]

Same with MM+. you have the option to participate or not. If the privacy concerns are so paramount to people, then they shouldn't participate. A debate can be had regarding how much you'll be at a disadvantage for not participating, but there is no debate on the fact that MM+ is optional, just like posting on a social network.

Then how are you going to get in your room if you opt out. Soon no more KTTW cards. You will need a magic band to get in your room.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Then how are you going to get in your room if you opt out. Soon no more KTTW cards. You will need a magic band to get in your room.

No. The Key to the World card will still be offered on request. What they are starting to implement at Pop Century is not activating the magnetic strip on requested cards so that Resort guests are limited to only using FastPass+.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

I'll throw this out as an example for the Magic Kingdom as a hybrid of what I'm thinking and what @Cesar R M suggested. It is wildly impractical, the question is more "is it possible".

It would rely on Fastpass distribution being made at a much higher rate than the current distribution rates (which let's say for the sake of this are at 60% of hourly capacity). If you increase the distribution to 80-90% of an attraction's capacity, enforce tighter return windows and prioritize Fastpass over Standby (or eliminate standby entirely) it's conceivable to schedule every attraction at the park with minimal waits.

Say every guest at MK gets 20 attractions, but return times are reduced to 20 minute windows. In a 12 hour day, that would create 36 possible return windows. I would assume @lentesta's optimizing tool could be modified to test this, it's essentially what they're already doing. Comparatively, Disney could request the attractions that you want to prioritize, take the expected arrival time and send people around the parks accordingly.

In theory Disney could "guarantee" spots on attractions provided that you make your arrival time at the park. If you show up late, you run the risk of missing the first few attractions you scheduled.

That's a P vs NP situation... it is nearly impossible to optimize the park Fastpass system to that level.

 

[Alektronic]

You have things all mixed up. There are two RFID chips (one HF, and one UHF), and then the 2.4GHz radio.. which is spoken of as if it's Bluetooth, but no one has confirmed that. The 2.4GHz radio would be the one used for detection at range since it's the active radio and is published as communicating with the wireless infrastructure. The RFID tags are for the contact systems or short/area detection (they are passive tags that require radiating to detect). The only thing posted in that dump is just the information from the HF radio tag. The UHF tag would be encoded with data as well... as well as the 2.4GHz radio broadcasting something unique (else.. both are pointless).

There is no specific reason for personal info to be on any of these (and makes life difficult in manufacturing and provisioning them) - but the dump from above is not a complete picture at all.

There is no Bluetooth involved, just a transmitter that is read from a LRR (Long Range Reader) which is basically just an antenna. The only places that LRR's are located at is FP+ attractions and they located at the standby entry, merge, load and exit for each attraction. They are basically people counters. They are used for :

MB users vs. legacy users
Standby wait times
To see how many people leave the queue before entering the ride
Compare how many MB use standby compared to FP+ line

 

[flynnibus]

There is no Bluetooth involved, just a transmitter that is read from a LRR (Long Range Reader) which is basically just an antenna. The only places that LRR's are located at is FP+ attractions and they located at the standby entry, merge, load and exit for each attraction. They are basically people counters. They are used for :

MB users vs. legacy users
Standby wait times
To see how many people leave the queue before entering the ride
Compare how many MB use standby compared to FP+ line

Nice.. so a simple 'beacon' announcing the location of a band user. Like I've been postulating all along. The bluetooth angle was brought up by others, and while the main frequency band is right.. there wasn't anything else pointing that direction. I figured they would go for something much simpler and just make it a beacon with a unique ID and then all they need to do is 'listen' for it.. and maybe have a sleep/wake functionality.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Then how are you going to get in your room if you opt out. Soon no more KTTW cards. You will need a magic band to get in your room.

You always have the option to get a KTTW card instead of a band, it just won't have the magnetic strip active for the legacy FP machines, it will only work as an RFID card - so you can get into your room, use tap to pay, etc.

 

[ford91exploder]

Nice.. so a simple 'beacon' announcing the location of a band user. Like I've been postulating all along. The bluetooth angle was brought up by others, and while the main frequency band is right.. there wasn't anything else pointing that direction. I figured they would go for something much simpler and just make it a beacon with a unique ID and then all they need to do is 'listen' for it.. and maybe have a sleep/wake functionality.

Should have kept the MB from August... Disgusted with experience so 'recycled it back to front desk' , Next one I'll do a spectrum trace on and see what it emits and where.

 

[Cesar R M]

Should have kept the MB from August... Disgusted with experience so 'recycled it back to front desk' , Next one I'll do a spectrum trace on and see what it emits and where.

DO IT! FOR SCIENCE!!!

 

[Snowflake82]

Not sure if I should post here or start a new thread, but has anyone seen Kevin Yee's latest miceage column on privacy / long range tracking with MB's?

Maybe it's just me, but I'm kind of baffled by the idea that this is surprising news. The long range tracking capabilities have been discussed on the boards here since at least the beginning of this year (unless I completely made it up in my own mind). I never got any sense of a general consensus that we didn't expect Disney to be using this.

Aside from that, I'm glad to see more public discussion of the issue.

 

[flynnibus]

Not sure if I should post here or start a new thread, but has anyone seen Kevin Yee's latest miceage column on privacy / long range tracking with MB's?

See - http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/kevin-yees-latest-article-on-rfid-magicbands.877582/unread

And yes, you should be baffled by what he thinks is surprising news.

 

[Snowflake82]

See - http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/kevin-yees-latest-article-on-rfid-magicbands.877582/unread

And yes, you should be baffled by what he thinks is surprising news.

Thanks, Flynn. I only looked at recent threads under News and Rumors, didn't search the other forums.