CarlFredricksen
Active Member
Why does everyone assume that over time as the ride gets older it won't need it. That's a horrible assumption. Peter Pan, Winne Pooh -- both older omnimover attractions with FP
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Mermaid getting fastpass?
- Thread starter MileLongBar
- Start date
Mansion Butler
Active Member
Those are not omnimovers, though Peter Pan kind of functions like an omnimover from an operational standpoint.
Also, calling WtP old makes me feel old. And I'm not old.
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
Those are not omnimovers, though Peter Pan kind of functions like an omnimover from an operational standpoint.
Also, calling WtP old makes me feel old. And I'm not old.
Indeed, Winnie the Pooh has only been around since 1999. Which would make it 12 years old on June 4th of this year. Peter Pan, by contrast, is 40 years old this October. That's quite an age difference there. And quite frankly I just don't get the appeal of Peter Pan. It's cute and all but nowhere near deserving of the lines it gets on a daily basis.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
Heh.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
I do like riding it, but I can't imagine standing in an hour+ line for it. I didn't stand in line for it prior to FP either, so even though the stand by has gotten longer as a result, I'm more likely to ride it now that I can get on in a couple minutes after killing a few hours.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yup, Al Lutz on Miceage has said since last year that DCA's version of Mermaid would not have Fastpass, but that Magic Kingdom's version of Mermaid would have Fastpass.
Now that we see the queue nearing completion at DCA in 2011, it appears that Al Lutz was right. (Again) Blueprints of the queue for Magic Kingdom seem to show it was designed for both a Standby and Fastpass queue.
baymenxpac
Well-Known Member
Those are not omnimovers, though Peter Pan kind of functions like an omnimover from an operational standpoint.
Also, calling WtP old makes me feel old. And I'm not old.
+1. if winnie the pooh is old, what does that make people who remember mr. toad?
Neverland
Active Member
Winnie the Pooh isn't an omnimover, it's dispatched, and it doesn't need fastpass. Trust me when I tell you that I know for a fact that all FP does at that ride is make the line longer than it should be. The standby line has to be brought to a halt to let fastpass guests in, sometimes for as long as 20 minutes. And after that 20 minutes, only 10 standby guests are allowed to advance if there are still people waiting in the FP line. Pooh is popular, but it's also a very fast loader. What makes the line move at a snail's pace is the stoppage of the standby line to make way for fastpass guests.
Does anyone remember the months when the Pooh queue was under construction, and there was no fastpass line? The longest I ever saw that queue was 30 minutes, and that was uncommon. All fastpass does at Pooh is make the line wayyyyy longer, just like the FPs at Mansion did.
WDW FTW
Member
Mansion Butler
Active Member
Well, that's not quite all it does. It does make the standby line much longer, but it gives you a near guarantee to get on with a very short wait at a later time. Before Fastpass, I wouldn't see the long stand by lines I do now, but if Splash Mountain was a 40 minute line, I'd have no choice but to wait for it to shorten or stand in line for 40 minutes. Now I can get a Fastpass and get on the ride much quicker. Yes, the stand by line is going to be much longer, but that's why I'm not going to get in it.
Same goes for Peter Pan. Its standby has exploded, but I never felt like standing in line for Peter Pan before Fastpass. Now I have an opportunity to ride it for a wait I think is more worthwhile.
What Fastpass really does is punish the people who don't know how to use it. The people who work the system well get a more efficient time. The people who don't have longer waits than they would have before the system was implemented.
The problem at the Mansion was that getting 90 people inside every 2 1/2 minutes while operating a merge point and trying to keep a 4/1 ratio was a viciously difficult task and created chaos. I also think there's a point where adding Fastpass is not quite worth it because the line will rarely be long enough to require one, and the Haunted Mansion is one of those attractions. When it takes post-parade on a capacity day for a wait time to top an hour, you can probably cut down on the headaches by just eliminating Fastpass, and that's what happened for us.
Future attractions that are designed with Fastpass from the ground up can and should organize things a little better than attractions that added it years after they were created.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
1999. It started with Kilimanjaro, I believe.
I was there shortly after it debuted. I was there shortly after it debuted, and have been as it expanded. While there are certainly kinks that still need to be worked out, and probably some attractions that could stand to lose it all together, I'm much happier now than I was before it.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Consider it like Soarin' - It was the last E-Ticket added to Epcot, but the demand for it has dropped from the original opening. The same is happening at Toy Story, and it will be more exaggerated when Star Tours 2.0 opens. With 54 different ride configurations Star Tours should have a high capacity and a high demand for re-rideability.
While the FP distribution time for Star Tours will certainly be shorter than what we're seeing currently for Fastpass (in large part because of capacity), it will be putting a larger quantity of Fastpasses in the system, and decrease the distribution delay on other Fastpass attractions.
The popularity of an attraction is at it's highest when it's freshest. If it's brand new everyone is going to want to experience it. The same holds true if it just underwent a significant refurbishment (although less so).
There is very little that can increase the demand of an attraction beyond the attraction opening.
Mansion Butler is absolutely correct. There's no exact science in determining what the wait time of an attraction would be with or without Fastpass without actually running the attractions with or without Fastpass. You can't assume the same # of people will want to wait for an attraction if they can't use Fastpass to experience it.
I'm certain Disney knows what the thresholds are for how long the average guest is willing to wait for an attraction. Personally, on most days I put this number at 30 minutes. More often than not, I can go through an entire trip without waiting longer than 30 minutes for most attractions (maybe 1 or 2 over the course of the trip).
I'd also argue that the reason why the lines for Peter Pan are so high has less to do with the quality of the attraction, but rather the demand to ride a Peter Pan attraction from little kids. It's going to be hard to rationalize "let's get a fastpass and come back later" to a child with regards to a Fantasyland attraction. As such, those adults that wish to experience these rides can do so using Fastpass.
More importantly, Fantasyland is built with high capacity rides that do not require Fastpass next to those Fastpass attractions. You can easily wait for non-Fastpass attractions in Fantasyland while you wait for the Peter Pan and Winnie the Pooh Fastpasses to become active. I expect that in time, the need for Fastpass at the Little Mermaid will eventually drop to something that can be run seasonally. I can't guarantee that Disney will actually run it seasonally, but it's certainly a realistic expectation. With Mermaid as a non-Fastpass 20 minute wait (estimate), guests can wait for this while they wait for their Seven Dwarf's Fastpass to become active.
Frankly, most rides can utilize Fastpass in some capacity. the biggest problem for Fastpass is the load time for an attraction. The longer the load time of an attraction, the less advantageous the Fastpass is compared to an attraction that loads quickly. An attraction with a long cycle time like Soarin' is aided in part by having two loading areas, but often times Fastpass guests can wait 15-20 minutes to board at Soarin'. A similar issue can happen at an attraction like Mansion where it effectively has two short shows (the Stretch Room) before the queue becomes an actual omnimover. This is why Fastpass is far less effective at shows as well. With shows having a cycle time typically larger than 20 minutes, it often defeats the purpose of actually using the Fastpass.
Mansion Butler
Active Member
I've had the exact statistics for Fastpass and efficiency spelled out to me before, but I don't have them handy (nor do I think I would be wise to share them if I did), but you're right, it's not just guesswork. It's based on trying to identify how many attractions a guest needs to be able to do in a day and creating the opportunities for them to be able to meet that quota, and how FP relates to each attraction under that quote is an individual thing.
Anyway, I pretty much agree with 30 minutes. I almost never get in a line that's even that long, while fitting in plenty of attractions (and interspersed downtime). I just use Fastpass well.
Now, gone, to an extent, is the spontaneity of saying "I'm going to ride this ride that I'm walking by right now," because the odds of the standby line being crazy are higher. But I'll sacrifice that for being able to cut down my wait time (at a later date) when Peter Pan and Splash Mountain are over 30 minutes.
You're probably right, because I saw people many, many, many times look at the Fastpass distribution, and decide that it was too long to wait and get in line instead. Personally, I don't understand that. I'll come back three hours later and get on in a few minutes instead of spend an hour standing in the line to get on it, but a whole lot of guests disagree with me on that. And as long as they're happy with it, that's their choice. And I think your reasoning for it may be why.
WDW FTW
Member
Interesting, my first trip was in 1999. I'm suprised i never noticed, but then again i was 4 at the time :lol:
jtizzle1023
Member
I have read and heard in many places.... One being from an Imagineneer, there will be no fastpass for LMM since it is an omnimover... Same with CA Adventure
WDW FTW
Member
Nah its been confirmed apparently for FL thats theres a fastpass
Neverland
Active Member
I know the magic number (not sure if I'm allowed to divulge it), and oddly enough, it's got a 1/2 attached to the end of it. There's some sort of huge formula involving fastpass, efficiency, ride lengths, dispatch intervals, you name it, that all boils down to that number. (What counts as half an attraction? Is that when you get stuck on Pirates and have to be evac'd?) And I also agree with about 30 minutes. I have people who scoff at me and refuse to wait in a 20 minute line all the time. Guests are getting spoiled. Before FP, if the line for Space Mountain was 90 minutes, you waited 90 minutes or you didn't ride. So I'm assuming the max reasonable wait time used to be higher.
My favorites are those guests who will wait in line if the line is the same wait as it would be if they got a fastpass. If the fastpass times are for an hour and a half later, and the queue is an hour and a half, they'll get in the line, because they figure it's the same thing, and then they commend themselves on their great genius.
I'm sorry, but... HUH?