MDE app and website are both down, when will they be fixed???

mikejs78

Premium Member
I rea
I’m in the parks this week. Even though the app wouldn’t pull up FP’s it still showed my dining reservations. Turnstyles worked just fine as did fastpass entry into attractions. You just weren’t able to see what they were which is why I always save them elsewhere for the just in case moments which I’m glad I did

Especially since Disney’s website infrastusture apparently runs on fisher price technology on a commodore in someone’s basement closest.

I work in IT for a large corp and if we had issues like Disney does that affects so many customers time and time again heads would roll and people would be terminated including management. Unexpected things happen yes, but why a company of their size can’t get their act together in the IT space is beyond ridiculous

I read somewhere previously (so take this with requisite grain of salt) that when building MDE, the engineers wanted to build a new system and do it the right way, but they didn't get the budget, and instead had to use "paper clips and bubble gum" to wire a bunch of old systems together.. Not the easiest task, and that usually leads to brittle systems..
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
I rea


I read somewhere previously (so take this with requisite grain of salt) that when building MDE, the engineers wanted to build a new system and do it the right way, but they didn't get the budget, and instead had to use "paper clips and bubble gum" to wire a bunch of old systems together.. Not the easiest task, and that usually leads to brittle systems..
Yes, I can see how $2 billion (or more!) wouldn’t be enough to make a functional app. It’s not as though apps are made for pennies left and right for every freaking business. My local bakery has an app! The state fair had an app! Stitch ate nothing!
 

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Yes, I can see how $2 billion (or more!) wouldn’t be enough to make a functional app. It’s not as though apps are made for pennies left and right for every freaking business. My local bakery has an app! The state fair had an app! Stitch ate nothing!
Yeah i'm not buying that excuse, stretch your dollar is mantra in corporate america yes but $2 Billion should have sufficed.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Yes, I can see how $2 billion (or more!) wouldn’t be enough to make a functional app. It’s not as though apps are made for pennies left and right for every freaking business. My local bakery has an app! The state fair had an app! Stitch ate nothing!

It's easy to make an app. A lot harder to orchestrate all the backend systems to work correctly. And as someone in mobile development industry, I can assure you that for quality apps, you are talking way more than pennies. If your local bakery has an app that was done cheaply, they likely either a) just taking their normal website and putting an 'app' container around it or b) bought it from a company that sells bakery app templates, and modified it for their own store. Not the same thing at all. Normal, relatively simple corporate apps can easily stretch to 7 figures.

For Disney, the app is probably fine. It's the FP reservation system, the park ticket linking, etc that ties everything together that's complex and costly.

Regarding the $2B, that was also for the whole RFID infrastructure and equipment, which is costly.

But again as someone who does this for a living and has an idea what these things cost, I am not surprised at the cost at all. I'm also not surprised about the alleged decision to not spend even more money building new backend systems rather than using existing ones. And given all that I'm not at all surprised they have more than their fair share of issues. There were certainly cheaper ways to do things (which mainly involves using 3rd party services) but companies like Disney are often hesitant to do them.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I rea


I read somewhere previously (so take this with requisite grain of salt) that when building MDE, the engineers wanted to build a new system and do it the right way, but they didn't get the budget, and instead had to use "paper clips and bubble gum" to wire a bunch of old systems together.. Not the easiest task, and that usually leads to brittle systems..

Correct other insiders have confirmed that what Disney is actually running is a HADOOP mashup. That configuration would be extraordinarily brittle. As its proved to be due to the repeated extended outages.

What management wanted was the 'big data' capability not increasing system reliability to 2012 standards
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Correct other insiders have confirmed that what Disney is actually running is a HADOOP mashup. That configuration would be extraordinarily brittle. As its proved to be due to the repeated extended outages.

What management wanted was the 'big data' capability not increasing system reliability to 2012 standards

Big data is fine, and Hadoop can be very useful when used right (although a Hadoop mashup of many different systems for transactional operations does indeed sound brittle). But it sounds to me like it was a case of management overruling technical decisions, which doesn't usually end well...

Sorry, don't mean to turn this into a tech thread! ;)
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Big data is fine, and Hadoop can be very useful when used right (although a Hadoop mashup of many different systems for transactional operations does indeed sound brittle). But it sounds to me like it was a case of management overruling technical decisions, which doesn't usually end well...

Sorry, don't mean to turn this into a tech thread! ;)
You didn't... as far as I personally am concerned you turned it into a Greek language thread. Nothing named Hadoop can be technical.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Yes, I can see how $2 billion (or more!) wouldn’t be enough to make a functional app. It’s not as though apps are made for pennies left and right for every freaking business. My local bakery has an app! The state fair had an app! Stitch ate nothing!

Would this REALLY surprise you though? I can buy it. Clearly there are still issues. So what exactly did all this money go towards?
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Would this REALLY surprise you though? I can buy it. Clearly there are still issues. So what exactly did all this money go towards?

Well, off the top of my head...

Software
  • A database of hundreds of millions of users
  • An interface for Android, IOS, and Web that's continually upgraded (though, the move away from Android "material design" to its unique interface was a step backwards)
  • A database of tens of thousands of hotel rooms that can be accessed by all users to schedule their own hotel reservations
  • An online store for the purchasing of tickets, resorts, and whatever else costs money: tours, special events, etc...
  • A database of tens of thousands of slots for restaurant reservations that can be accessed by all users to schedule their own reservations
  • A database of millions of FastPass slots that can be accessed by all users constantly updated on the fly in real time
  • A database of the schedule of all the parks and all the various opening and closing times for months ahead of time (though, accuracy here isn't too good)
  • A real-time map with directions
  • A display of wait times constantly updated
  • Ordering system for quick service restaurants
  • A database of a ginormous amount of bytes for photopass

Hardware
  • All the servers for all that data and accessing it by a large number of users simultaneously
  • Tapstiles for all the park entrances and just about every attraction, some having two sets of tapstiles to catch FP jumpers, and many have computer displays attached
  • All the hard wiring and Wi-Fi connections for all those tapstiles and to provide 'free' wireless coverage for all guests with large numbers hitting their routers at the same time
  • Tap locks for tens of thousands resort rooms
  • Tap payment units at cash registers
  • Portable tap units for photopass photographers
  • Some sort of device at Quick Serve restaurants (maybe just computers) to show orders and to communicate with customers that their order is ready
  • Displays for StoryMaker (still not fully implemented, though)
  • MagicBands. Millions and millions of MagicBands that are continually being upgraded and improved since first implementation in the tech and design.
Plus, the continuing cost of labor to design, implement, maintain, and improve it.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Well, off the top of my head...

Software
  • A database of hundreds of millions of users
  • An interface for Android, IOS, and Web that's continually upgraded (though, the move away from Android "material design" to its unique interface was a step backwards)
  • A database of tens of thousands of hotel rooms that can be accessed by all users to schedule their own hotel reservations
  • An online store for the purchasing of tickets, resorts, and whatever else costs money: tours, special events, etc...
  • A database of tens of thousands of slots for restaurant reservations that can be accessed by all users to schedule their own reservations
  • A database of millions of FastPass slots that can be accessed by all users constantly updated on the fly in real time
  • A database of the schedule of all the parks and all the various opening and closing times for months ahead of time (though, accuracy here isn't too good)
  • A real-time map with directions
  • A display of wait times constantly updated
  • Ordering system for quick service restaurants
  • A database of a ginormous amount of bytes for photopass

Hardware
  • All the servers for all that data and accessing it by a large number of users simultaneously
  • Tapstiles for all the park entrances and just about every attraction, some having two sets of tapstiles to catch FP jumpers, and many have computer displays attached
  • All the hard wiring and Wi-Fi connections for all those tapstiles and to provide 'free' wireless coverage for all guests with large numbers hitting their routers at the same time
  • Tap locks for tens of thousands resort rooms
  • Tap payment units at cash registers
  • Portable tap units for photopass photographers
  • Some sort of device at Quick Serve restaurants (maybe just computers) to show orders and to communicate with customers that their order is ready
  • Displays for StoryMaker (still not fully implemented, though)
  • MagicBands. Millions and millions of MagicBands that are continually being upgraded and improved since first implementation in the tech and design.
Plus, the continuing cost of labor to design, implement, maintain, and improve it.

Awesome summary. I think sometimes people underestimate what goes into stuff from a technical perspective because there exist ways to build cheap apps and many apps go for free or $.99. But MDE is a huge undertaking with lots of moving parts. It's not simple or cheap. Did they make some poor choices? Yup, probably. But $2B doesn't seem that far off given everything @MisterPenguin described. And there's likely more that he's not even considering....
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
I've never read so much Bantha-poo in my life.

Any excuses justifying the $2B price tag of all this are so rancid you can smell the stench from Coruscant.

While we all romanticize the scope of WDW, people are acting like it is some small nation. Much, much larger IT projects have happened much, much more cheaply.

Cripes, we are talking about managing reservations for a few dozen hotels, sixty or so attractions, and what, less than a hundred restaurants? All at a single site, no less?

Put the Kool-Aid down and do a reality check. There are companies that manage SIX THOUSAND hotels, or credit card companies that track HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of transactions per day, across the entire planet.

MM+ was the IT boondoggle of the century. RFID tech is cheap as hell, that's why it's everywhere. Disney has done absolutely nothing revolutionary with it, nor with these systems. It was terribly planned and mismanaged to incompetent levels by people who shouldn't have had anything to do with it. It was the classic case of a company who let their IT infrastructure get outdated, refused to spend the money at the start to do it correctly, which then ballooned into every department wanting their own piece of it - the entire project was just an epic failure of incredible proportions.

All so people could become further attached to their freaking cell phones, and wouldn't have to whip out their KTW card in an attempt to psychologically part them from their money a tiny bit easier.

Please. No matter how much some people (particularly those that visit often, it seems, versus normal guests who once they master the system, it's time for their vacation to be up - who do you think is making those FP reservations for Aladdin's Carpets?) like it, for the amount they wasted versus what was needed, they could have built enough new attractions to mitigate the crowd issues that cause some people to think they need FP+ to begin with.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
I've never read so much Bantha-poo in my life.

Any excuses justifying the $2B price tag of all this are so rancid you can smell the stench from Coruscant.

While we all romanticize the scope of WDW, people are acting like it is some small nation. Much, much larger IT projects have happened much, much more cheaply.

Cripes, we are talking about managing reservations for a few dozen hotels, sixty or so attractions, and what, less than a hundred restaurants? All at a single site, no less?

Put the Kool-Aid down and do a reality check. There are companies that manage SIX THOUSAND hotels, or credit card companies that track HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of transactions per day, across the entire planet.

MM+ was the IT boondoggle of the century. RFID tech is cheap as hell, that's why it's everywhere. Disney has done absolutely nothing revolutionary with it, nor with these systems. It was terribly planned and mismanaged to incompetent levels by people who shouldn't have had anything to do with it. It was the classic case of a company who let their IT infrastructure get outdated, refused to spend the money at the start to do it correctly, which then ballooned into every department wanting their own piece of it - the entire project was just an epic failure of incredible proportions.

All so people could become further attached to their freaking cell phones, and wouldn't have to whip out their KTW card in an attempt to psychologically part them from their money a tiny bit easier.

Please. No matter how much some people (particularly those that visit often, it seems, versus normal guests who once they master the system, it's time for their vacation to be up - who do you think is making those FP reservations for Aladdin's Carpets?) like it, for the amount they wasted versus what was needed, they could have built enough new attractions to mitigate the crowd issues that cause some people to think they need FP+ to begin with.

And you'd be wrong. I do this stuff for a living and you are certainly minimizing the complexity. Your examples are not really equivalent. And BTW, WDW is basically it's own county. This is very different than a hotel chain - there isn't any private Enterprise that is the scope and size of WDW...

Now one could argue that they didn't need all this, they could have done it better, etc... But the price tag is in line with what I would expect based on the requirements. (RFID may be cheap but don't forget the labor, equipment cost, etc...)
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
And you'd be wrong. I do this stuff for a living and you are certainly minimizing the complexity. Your examples are not really equivalent. And BTW, WDW is basically it's own county. This is very different than a hotel chain - there isn't any private Enterprise that is the scope and size of WDW...

Now one could argue that they didn't need all this, they could have done it better, etc... But the price tag is in line with what I would expect based on the requirements. (RFID may be cheap but don't forget the labor, equipment cost, etc...)

Sorry, I stand by my statements. I have quite a bit of professional knowledge about IT, as well. I very well understand what complexities there were, and so do many other established members of this board who have demonstrated expertise in this area. I'm not going to regurgitate the details that have been discussed hundreds of times, I was simply giving a reality check about what it really is we are talking about here.

Even though we have been discussing the details of this project for years, I do believe you are the first person to even dare to say something so outrageous as "the price tag is in line with what I would expect". It's not just silly, it's laughably insane.
 
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ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I stand by my statements. I have quite a bit of professional knowledge about IT, as well. I very well understand what complexities there were, and so do many other established members of this board who have demonstrated expertise in this area. I'm not going to regurgitate the details that have been discussed hundreds of times, I was simply giving a reality check about what it really is we are talking about here.

Even though we have been discussing the details of this project for years, I do believe you are the first person to even dare in to say something so outrageous as "the price tag is in line with what I would expect". It's not just silly, it's laughably insane.
I agree. It’s an absurd statement. The folks who sold the higher ups on MDE were fired for a reason. Its lack of integration into the other Disney properties is for a reason.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I agree. It’s an absurd statement. The folks who sold the higher ups on MDE were fired for a reason. Its lack of integration into the other Disney properties is for a reason.

This system was such a success nobody else in the Disney world wanted it. Because the idea was to share the system accross all the parks including OLC Paris and China
 

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