Marvel's Next Step

[flavious27]

"Thor" has made almost $400 million worldwide so far.

Thor is making the money that tron should have, I wonder though how much marvel/disney is actually making from this movie.

 

[wizards8507]

Thor is making the money that tron should have, I wonder though how much marvel/disney is actually making from this movie.

I might be wrong but don't they get a fixed negotiated fee for the licensing, as opposed to a cut of the box office revenue?

 

[Captain Chaos]

"Thor" has made almost $400 million worldwide so far.

I only took U.S. figures.... Thanks for the worldwide total though... Thor is making money, that is for sure...

 

[flavious27]

I might be wrong but don't they get a fixed negotiated fee for the licensing, as opposed to a cut of the box office revenue?

Do they? Anyone have what the agreement was?

 

[Wilt Dasney]

It's just not smart to make a long-term investment in a property that they don't own.

Isn't that exactly the strategy behind every Universal park?

 

[ChrisM]

Thor is making the money that tron should have, I wonder though how much marvel/disney is actually making from this movie.

Well, Tron did pull in just over $400 million globally. That said, I'm going to speculate that Thor will end up with a final global box office of $500 million.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Yeah, I just don't see that playing out that way.

It's like Spiderman. It's an amazing ride. But I don't think people come to IOA because it's a Spiderman ride, it's because it's an amazing attraction that happens to be themed on Spiderman.

And, really, that's the true extent of Marvel at Uni. The rest of the rides could essentially be rethemed overnight with different signage.

It just doesn't make sense for UO to build some 100M Iron Man attraction when one way or another, it's not going to last forever. At some point Universal will get rid of that section - retheme Spidey to Transformers, and as I said, the other attractions would follow suit pretty easily in that area.

It's just not smart to make a long-term investment in a property that they don't own.

It will be interesting to see what this summer does to comic book films in general. It's such an off year - we have Thor and Green Lantern, which are based on C-level characters, and at least one of them is already giving off the "Catwoman" vibe. If either one of them bombs (i.e. doesn't make 100M in the first few breaths), we are going to see a downturn of comic book films in general. Next year we have the final Nolan Batman installment, but I'll be surprised to see what ends up being penciled in for 2013 after this summer's tallies are done.

This is really something that people fail to realize quite a bit. The theme of an attraction is rarely what makes it a quality attraction. Attractions can be themed around a variety of different things. Sure, certain things lend themselves to theming more so than others. You can look at the unique environments in Star Wars, Harry Potter and Cars, and how successful these themed lands can be.

Having said that, the commercial tie in is driven by marketing and merchandise. If Carsland had a generic Route 66 theme but was still as immersive, it wouldn't move the merchandise that it would move with the Cars tie in. Comparitively, it would be a tougher sell without that tie in as well.

 

[Mouse Detective]

It works the other way around. Every film Disney puts out makes kids want to see the Marvel characters more ... and they have to go to Universal to do it (at least on the east coast). Every film (or comic book, or game, or tv show, or cartoon) makes Universal's Marvel Superhero Island more valuable.

I agree. Universal remains in the drivers seat on the Uni-Marvel contract and I don't see them giving it up. Disney can't afford the price they'd have to pay to buy it out and Universal can't afford to give up the characters because the rides would be sorely lacking without the current Marvel theming. So it ain't gonna happen. Disney will use Marvel characters elsewhere but not in Florida. Period.

As for Marvel merchandise, I can't confirm if Universal has been clearing the shelves of the stuff in California since I've not been there. Might make sense if Disney is going to do something in California with Marvel. But in Florida, ain't happening. I've seen more Marvel merchandise on the shelves at IOA than I've ever seen before including stuff with some of the lesser-known characters. I think by all means Universal is taking a stand in Florida that Marvel is THEIRS and THEIRS ALONE!

 

[lebeau]

Actually, the purchase was announced then. Disney did not legally acquired Marvel until the end of the year.

Yeah, I knew that but got lazy. I found the announcement date easily, but I didn't feel like digging for when the deal became finalized.

Blackstone wouldn't secretly sell out the rights. As far as I know they own Universal and are looking for buyers.

I'm pretty sure this has been cleared up already. But just in case it hasn't, Blackstone doesn't own Universal. They have a share of the Universal Parks. So they can't just sell off pieces without Universal's consent.

The Iron Man ride was being planned for a later date but they were in the early development phase for it. This supposedly happened in early 2010 after Iron Man proved to be a hit and the sequel was on the way.

Sounds made up to me. I'm gonna need some sources to convince me. Nothing about this sounds true other than someone at Universal looked at the grosses for Iron Man and wondered if they should make an attraction.

There is nothing reflected in the contract that says Disney/Marvel can flat out prevent Universal from putting an Iron Man attraction on that island.[/qoute]

Precisely.

I'm actually kind of surprised Universal hasn't already done so, but my guess is they poured all available money into the Harry Potter land.

That's my thought. HP is the priority. And Then they have to keep things balanced at US. They can't just heap everything onto IoA. HP and new Marvel attractions would cannibalize US attendance.

I don't see disney blocking it outright, they will just drag their feet. Uni can try to sue them for delaying their development, but the case won't come to a conclusion. Just the threat of a lawsuit will grease the gears.

So, Disney will more or less have to approve any proposal that isn't absurd. And if the standard is the comics, Universal can get away with a lot. I don't really see Disney's approvel ever being a factor. Anything Disney could deny, Universal would never want to build in the first place.

Universal would be stupid to add any more Marvel to their parks, which is why they won't (they were already clearing the shelves of Marvel merch at USH back last spring).

The fact that they are upgrading the Spiderman ride suggests they are not getting out of the Marvel business.

I don't think they would be stupid at all to build new Marvel attractions. It's just not the priority right now. I'd be kind of surprised if 10 years from now there isn't some kind of Avengers themed attraction.

It makes absolutely no sense at this point for them to add anything Marvel because they would be promotion Disney characters. They may not be bailing on the Marvel concepts yet, but they certainly won't be looking to get deeper in.

I don't see anyone saying, we need to go see that new Hulk movie because the Hulk coaster in Orlando was awesome! If anything, Marvel is doing more for Universal than Universal is doing for Marvel/Disney.

It works the other way around. Every film Disney puts out makes kids want to see the Marvel characters more ... and they have to go to Universal to do it (at least on the east coast). Every film (or comic book, or game, or tv show, or cartoon) makes Universal's Marvel Superhero Island more valuable.

Exactly!

Yeah, I just don't see that playing out that way.

It's like Spiderman. It's an amazing ride. But I don't think people come to IOA because it's a Spiderman ride, it's because it's an amazing attraction that happens to be themed on Spiderman.

Some people do. What you are suggesting is that anyone would be stupid for buying the Marvel lisence. That the Marvel lisence adds no value. Of course if that is true, Disney definitely overpaid for Marvel.

It just doesn't make sense for UO to build some 100M Iron Man attraction when one way or another, it's not going to last forever. At some point Universal will get rid of that section - retheme Spidey to Transformers, and as I said, the other attractions would follow suit pretty easily in that area.

It's really not the foregone conclussion you make it out to be. Marvel Super Hero Island may be at Universal for a long, long time.

Also, you just made a point of how easily Universal could retheme the whole island to another property if they had to. Kind of defeats your whole argument.

It's just not smart to make a long-term investment in a property that they don't own.

Universal must be stupid then because they keep doing exactly that. Guess you should tell them what a dumb investment the Harry Potter lisence was!

It will be interesting to see what this summer does to comic book films in general. It's such an off year - we have Thor and Green Lantern, which are based on C-level characters, and at least one of them is already giving off the "Catwoman" vibe. If either one of them bombs (i.e. doesn't make 100M in the first few breaths), we are going to see a downturn of comic book films in general. Next year we have the final Nolan Batman installment, but I'll be surprised to see what ends up being penciled in for 2013 after this summer's tallies are done.

Wow. Just wow.

Thor's a big hit already. If X-Men fails, it will likely only effect that franchise. If Cap fails, the Avengers franchise will still go on. We just won't get a Cap 2. The stakes are highest on GL. I think GL will be a hit, but if it's not the outlook for othe DC movies outside of Batman and Superman might not be so good.

You seem to have forgotten Avengers, Spider-man and Superman. The big stuff is still coming. 2011 is just warm-up.

Rebooting spiderman 10 years after the original, with two other movies in the middle, is going to cheapen the brand.

Or bring it back to new life.

X Men first class is a joke for how it messes with the canon of the last films, along with storm not being in the newest film so that ride won't get any extra pr. the hulk ride hasn't been rebuilt 3 times in the last decade. I don't think the F4 will have a new movie made by Fox, nor would Disney buyout the rights and not be able to use that IP in the parks.

I really have no idea what you're getting at.

Marvel Entertainment was able to help with the PR for IOA in the past decade, but I don't see it happened in the future with the current lineup of attractions.

I agree that Marvel probably won't actively promote Marvel Super Hero Island any more than they used to. But I don't think they were actively doing that before anyway.

Marvel/Disney is promoting their brand. That helps Universal. Really, this is a mutually beneficial situation. A lot of people around here don't seem to grasp that. Both sides are happily raking in the dough.

Uni never owned Marvel anyway, so they're not losing anything. A new Iron Man ride would bring people in. Marvel Universe will basically be around forever, there's no shelf life to it. The rides are based more on the comics than the movies, anyway. Anything that brings people into UNI is a good thing for them.

Agreed.

And Thor is a hit. There's no chance of it being a bomb. And, I'm sorry, but one bad comic film isn't going to cripple the Comic book-movie landscape. There have already been plenty of bombs, and comic book films are still surviving pretty darn well. Also, Marvel and DC comics don't just revolve around Superheros.

:sohappy:

Here is the point that I would like to make. Disney is sometimes lacking boy appeal. For my young granddaughter there is always something Disney I can buy for her. For my grandson this the choices are usually limited to “Cars”. Disney could make the Marvel Brand into the thing that little boys want to do at the parks, see the movies and buy the toys (action figures would be the big one). If Disney is going to get the most out of Marvel they have to get it into the parks some way. If that requires buying out the contract with Universal, then so be it. I can remember back years ago when I took my 5 year old son to Walt Disney World; all he wanted to see was the “Ninja Turtles” and they were not a Disney brand.

You can already buy Marvel merch in the Disney parks.

But it would be silly for Disney to shell out what Uni would most likely ask to buy back the Marvel rights in Florida. The money could be much better spent building up the 4 exisiting parks without the Marvel brand.

 

[lebeau]

Do they? Anyone have what the agreement was?

From Deadline:

The Walt Disney Studios deal to buy Paramount Pictures out of the final two films of its six-picture distribution deal with Marvel Studios amounts to the Mouse paying a premium to get cracking on its $4 billion investment in Marvel. When you break down the numbers, it's a pretty good deal for both studios. Paramount had been earning an 8% distribution fee on the Marvel titles like Iron Man. Paramount also put up P&A and got reimbursed over time. The $115 million will be paid in two installments--half when The Avengers is released May 4, 2012, and the other half when Iron Man 3 is released May 3, 2013. If those movies perform more strongly than expected, Paramount will earn more than $115 million advance. I'm told that Paramount is actually getting 9% on that third Iron Man movie, a reward for launching one of Hollywood's most valuable franchises. So essentially, Paramount is getting paid without having to put up the P&A or exert the manpower that goes into releasing summer blockbusters.

Paramount loses bragging rights that come with counting the worldwide grosses in its annual tally. But considering that Disney kept 92% of the profits that came from Iron Man 2's $622 million worldwide revenues, how much were those bragging rights really worth? Paramount needed the Marvel deal when it was signed because the studio had little of its own homegrown franchise product to lean on. Marvel and DreamWorks product got the studio through lean times. DreamWorks is gone and Marvel will be out in 2012, but Paramount is already in a much better place. The $50 million grosses on the $20 million budget Jackass 3D indicate that this franchise is far from done. Transformers 3 gets released in July, a fourth Mission:Impossible is in production and will be released for holiday, 2011. The following year brings another Star Trek, G.I. Joe and the relaunch of the Tom Clancy-created Jack Ryan series, with Chris Pine playing the CIA analyst. Paramount next week releases Paranormal Activity 2, and it owns worldwide distribution rights on sequels. Many of those movies are coming from core lot producers Bad Robot and Lorenzo di Bonaventura, and newcomer Platinum Dunes is revamping the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise. Clearly, Paramount won't need the product in 2012 as much as it has in recent years. Paramount will still distribute Thor on May 6, 2011 and The First Avenger: Captain America on July 22, 2011.
For Disney, the deal brings its superhero franchises under one roof and eliminates the difficulty and power struggles of trying to work with another studio's marketing and distribution. Bruised feelings and egos are inevitable. We don't believe that Disney will try to buy up other Marvel franchises that are tent poles for other studios, like Spider-Man, X-Men and other franchises. Sony, Fox and other studios can hang onto those titles as long as they keep making payments and occasional movies that they finance. The difference here is that the films under the Paramount deal are the ones that Marvel Studios began funding under its $500 million credit line with Merrill Lynch, an accommodation made before the studio was bought by Bob Iger last year for $4 billion.

 

[sublimesting]

Also, Marvel and DC comics don't just revolve around Superheros.

Wait...WHAT?!?!

 

[lebeau]

Wait...WHAT?!?!

They do publish other stuff. DC's Vertigo imprint is a major player. Even Marvel has some non-super hero product.

Also, comics don't revolve solely around Marvel and DC. The success of the Walking Dead shows that.

 

[roadtripper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtripper
"Blackstone wouldn't secretly sell out the rights. As far as I know they own Universal and are looking for buyers."

"I'm pretty sure this has been cleared up already. But just in case it hasn't, Blackstone doesn't own Universal. They have a share of the Universal Parks. So they can't just sell off pieces without Universal's consent."

They are a majority shareholder and the article clearly states that Uni will have to figure out a way to buy out Blackstone's shares to prevent possible losses of some licensing rights. Uni can "approve the deals" by coming up with money or investors interested in letting Uni borrow money to buy out Blackstone. If Blackstone finds a buyer interested in something in particular who knows what will happen. I doubt Disney will buy out the Marvel contract but if other things fall into place it could be up for sale. That being said Disney probably would still allow Uni the rights because their still making money off of rides and things they didn't have to build.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I agree. Universal remains in the drivers seat on the Uni-Marvel contract and I don't see them giving it up. Disney can't afford the price they'd have to pay to buy it out and Universal can't afford to give up the characters because the rides would be sorely lacking without the current Marvel theming. So it ain't gonna happen. Disney will use Marvel characters elsewhere but not in Florida. Period.

As for Marvel merchandise, I can't confirm if Universal has been clearing the shelves of the stuff in California since I've not been there. Might make sense if Disney is going to do something in California with Marvel. But in Florida, ain't happening. I've seen more Marvel merchandise on the shelves at IOA than I've ever seen before including stuff with some of the lesser-known characters. I think by all means Universal is taking a stand in Florida that Marvel is THEIRS and THEIRS ALONE!

And they can have it.

I hope you're right about Disney not using Marvel characters in Florida. At least that will keep one of the Disney parks a little more, well, Disney.

 

[lebeau]

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadtripper
"Blackstone wouldn't secretly sell out the rights. As far as I know they own Universal and are looking for buyers."

"I'm pretty sure this has been cleared up already. But just in case it hasn't, Blackstone doesn't own Universal. They have a share of the Universal Parks. So they can't just sell off pieces without Universal's consent."

They are a majority shareholder and the article clearly states that Uni will have to figure out a way to buy out Blackstone's shares to prevent possible losses of some licensing rights. Uni can "approve the deals" by coming up with money or investors interested in letting Uni borrow money to buy out Blackstone. If Blackstone finds a buyer interested in something in particular who knows what will happen. I doubt Disney will buy out the Marvel contract but if other things fall into place it could be up for sale. That being said Disney probably would still allow Uni the rights because their still making money off of rides and things they didn't have to build.

I think you may want to go back and re-read that article. Blackstone isn't a majority shareholder. It's a 50/50 split. Blackstone has offered to sell its half of the parks. Universal has the option to buy them out. If , they don't, Blackstone can force a sale which may jeopardize some of the licensing agreements. But that doesn't mean Blackstone can decide unilaterally to sell off certain properties.

 

[juniorthomas]

They do publish other stuff. DC's Vertigo imprint is a major player. Even Marvel has some non-super hero product.

Also, comics don't revolve solely around Marvel and DC. The success of the Walking Dead shows that.

In about five seconds the following new thread will pop up: ZOMG!!1! WALKING DEAD Ride at DHS!!!!!?!

 

[lebeau]

In about five seconds the following new thread will pop up: ZOMG!!1! WALKING DEAD Ride at DHS!!!!!?!

Walking Dead ride? Try Walking Dead Land! aka Zombieland!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Sorry, misread what he was asking. Wouldn't the contract for Marvel Super Heroes 4D been signed between disney and merlin anyway because the announcement of super hero 4d was announced after marvel was purchased.

Along with that DLP's CEO mentioned last year of having DLP's 3rd gate being a marvel/superhero park. Disney would not have signed away the rights to marvel in europe in march of 2010 and have dlp's ceo talking about using that IP in September of 2010.

Attractions typically spend years in development. If Disney owned Marvel when the deal was made then that means Marvel Super Heroes 4D had an incredibly fast development cycle of less than a year.

 

[Captain Neo]

There is nothing reflected in the contract that says Disney/Marvel can flat out prevent Universal from putting an Iron Man attraction on that island. They can prevent Universal from using the likeness of Robert Downey Jr (and other actors). They can probably prevent Universal from using aspects of the character created first in the film (such as rebooting the character's origin to the current Middle East wars). But they can't just say "You can't make an Iron Man attraction." I'm actually kind of surprised Universal hasn't already done so, but my guess is they poured all available money into the Harry Potter land.

Well you'll have to take it up with leemac who works for WDI. Thats who I heard it from on the lp forum.

 

[Krack]

Well you'll have to take it up with leemac who works for WDI. Thats who I heard it from on the lp forum.

I'll pass.