Marvel's Fantastic Four

[Disney Irish]

I wonder who they are going to Gender or Race swap in this one???

I'm hoping "The Thing" will be the one switched, it would be alright if he's African American. They just need someone with a cool voice like Khary Payton from "The Walking Dead".

Since 20th Century already tried and failed with that on the last one I'm not sure Feige would want to try that again so soon for the same characters.

 

[doctornick]

I wonder who they are going to Gender or Race swap in this one???

I'm hoping "The Thing" will be the one switched, it would be alright if he's African American. They just need someone with a cool voice like Khary Payton from "The Walking Dead".

FWIW, there's a number of fans out there who would be upset if Ben Grimm isn't portrayed as a Jewish person. I've seen the arguments out there that it is a fundamental part of his character (and reflective of many comic book pioneers who were often Jewish).

I personally don't care, but it's a thing out there so I figured I'd mention it.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

I just want a hot, middle-aged, relatively thin, greying man who's erudite

...
Sorry, what? I missed the rest of what you were saying...

 

[Lucky Rabbit]

In the comics the characters have looked a certain way since 1961. They may act the same, no matter what they look like. But changing their race or sex will change their outer appearance. Therefore it wouldn't be true to their comic origins.

I didn't even like Jessica Alba and Michael Chiklis in the 1st big budget version. Because they both didn't fit the characters. One was obviously wearing a blonde wig and contacts and the other was way too short.

This is an odd thing to be hung up about. Nick Fury was originally white in the comics, but Samuel L. Jackson has done a great job. Most MCU castings have been great.

But don’t worry there’s a lot of rumors out that would indicate you’ll be happy.

 

[Lucky Rabbit]

Interesting Reed tidbit. Makes me wonder if Waldron is in play to write the movie if he likes Reed this much.

Michael Waldron Wrote A Reed Richards Post-Credits Scene For Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness – Exclusive

It was a fun, brief, bloody appearance for Reed Richards, which writer Michael Waldron acknowledges is the most jaw-dropping cameo of the film. “That’s the big one, right?” he chuckles, speaking to Empire in the new issue. Writing for Mister Fantastic was a dream come for him. “I always wanted Reed Richards in this thing,” Waldron tells Empire – so much so that even before the Illuminati sequence came about, he penned a pie-in-the-sky post-credits sequence to satisfy his own curiosities. “In my very first draft, I wrote a tag just for the hell of it, of the events of the movie being recorded and reviewed by somebody in the Baxter Building, and a stretchy hand coming into frame to run it back.” It was an opportunity to do at least something with a superhero he’s always loved on the page. “Reed is probably my favourite Marvel comics character,” he says, “so I was always gunning to get him in here somewhere.”

Even if Wanda quickly takes Reed out in Multiverse Of Madness, the film ultimately sees the Darkhold-corrupted witch recognise her own fall to the dark side, burying herself under the collapsed rubble of Mount Wundagore. But is she really gone? “She’s removing herself from the board… For now? Forever? We’ll see,” hints Waldron. “I’d like to see her again…” Maybe she’ll have another variant of Reed Richards to rip to shreds in the not-too-distant future.

 

[doctornick]

I don't see it as an odd thing, but to each his own.

I just think characters should look at least somewhat similar to their literary counterpart. If I read a book about a 3 eyed green alien and in the movie they made him red with 6 eyes, I wouldn't be satisfied.

Comic books in particular are a visual medium so they are different than (say) novels that may describe a character but don’t have pictures. I think it’s pretty understandable that people want movie portrayals of characters to look similar to how they’ve depicted visually in stories for decades.

 

[tcool123]

I may be wrong here but I can’t of anything the MCU has done portrayal that wasnt done by the comics years before?

One of the examples the comes to mind is actually characters loosing their ethnicity such as Wanda Maximoff not being Romani in the MCU. Again I don’t follow the nitty gritty of comics, but like it does seem like they’re been sticking to portrayals that are similar to what they have been shown as in the comics. I truly don’t get the uproar

 

[Disney Irish]

I may be wrong here but I can’t of anything the MCU has done portrayal that wasnt done by the comics years before?

One of the examples the comes to mind is actually characters loosing their ethnicity such as Wanda Maximoff not being Romani in the MCU. Again I don’t follow the nitty gritty of comics, but like it does seem like they’re been sticking to portrayals that are similar to what they have been shown as in the comics. I truly don’t get the uproar

Your example of Wanda goes even further because she is a mutant in the comics, and not in the MCU. This was done because Disney/Marvel didn't have the rights to mutants at the time due to being locked up at Fox. So changes had to be made.

 

[mary2013]

I see your point, for maybe smaller roles. But main characters are described with great detail and are on the covers, merchandise and many other areas. They can't just be changed willy nilly to fit certain criterias or check off a box.

Harry Potter for example is known to look a certain way. Caucasian, messy dark hair, lightning scar, etc. You can't just say "Oh wait we need more Indians in this movie. Harry Potter is Indian now. Hermione's black and Ron is now a lesbian woman with a mohawk."

She is now.

 

[Disney Irish]

I also think it is hard to see a person as their character if they are race swapped. They can definitely act like the character they are portraying. But because their appearance has changed so dramatically it prevents you from completely suspending your belief. You can't get lost in a movie the way you could if something was true to the original. Because in the back of your mind your thinking "She doesn't look like the book or original movie's version".

Overall I think it does a disservice to the actor or actress and people of their certain race as well. Because already people will have negative feelings about their portrayal. When they could easily play either an already established character that looks like them (Tiana) or a brand new character.

I disagree, Nick Fury is a great example of why this idea that you can't race swap is misguided. SLJ IS Nick Fury even though he looks nothing like the character in the comics. Sure you had some fans at the beginning call out that he isn't Fury from the comics, but because SLJ is so iconic in the role you can't imagine anyone else playing the character now in the MCU.

Point is any actor that gives an iconic portrayal of a character no matter if their skin color is different aren't having anyone but the most misguided taken out of the film.

 

[doctornick]

I disagree, Nick Fury is a great example of why this idea that you can't race swap is misguided. SLJ IS Nick Fury even though he looks nothing like the character in the comics. Sure you had some fans at the beginning call out that he isn't Fury from the comics, but because SLJ is so iconic in the role you can't imagine anyone else playing the character now in the MCU.

Point is any actor that gives an iconic portrayal of a character no matter if their skin color is different aren't having anyone but the most misguided taken out of the film.

The Ultimates version of Fury is black and predates SLJ in the role (and was actually based on SLJ’s appearance in the comics). I think most hard core fans just consider him based on that version.

Since the original Fury was actually a WW2 era character (who took an anti aging formula to be alive in more modern times), in my head cannon if that character exists in the MCU, he dates to an earlier time period.

 

[Disney Irish]

The Ultimates version of Fury is black and predates SLJ in the role (and was actually based on SLJ’s appearance in the comics). I think most hard core fans just consider him based on that version.

Since the original Fury was actually a WW2 era character (who took an anti aging formula to be alive in more modern times), in my head cannon if that character exists in the MCU, he dates to an earlier time period.

Not saying you're wrong obviously, but I think most fans don't remember this version of Fury, I know I didn't.

But the point I was making still stands. Actors that give iconic portrayals become the character no matter if they are of a different skin color to that of their comic book counterpart. Its only the misguided that would be taken out of the story and care that they aren't of the same skin color.

 

[Disney Irish]

Like Doctor Nick said, he's based on a popular version of the character.

Plus Samuel L. Jackson threatened to sue over his likeness if they didn't give him the role.

You’re missing the point my friend.

 

[doctornick]

You’re missing the point my friend.

We understand your point and I think it would be a valid one, but it’s just not in this example since there already was an established version of Fury in the comics that was similar to the MCU version. The type of people who might complain about such things didn’t really have that basis for complaint so it was accepted.

The better example in the MCU is making the Ancient One a bald Celtic female instead of an Asian male. That’s really the only example of significant “swapping” that has happened in the MCU that I can think of. Has there been any others?

 

[Disney Irish]

Nope, I'm not. It's just you are wrong Buddy.

He's been black in the comics since 2002. So it isn't just a random race swap like "The Little Mermaid", "Cinderella" and "Anne Boleyn" (whose a real person).

The example I provided was probably not the best.

However with that said, the point still stands. It shouldn't matter, and it doesn't to most out there, if a Marvel character in the MCU has been race swapped as long as the actor/actress playing the character turns in an iconic performance. That is the point, which you clearly keep missing or just out right ignoring.

 

[Disney Irish]

We understand your point and I think it would be a valid one, but it’s just not in this example since there already was an established version of Fury in the comics that was similar to the MCU version. The type of people who might complain about such things didn’t really have that basis for complaint so it was accepted.

The better example in the MCU is making the Ancient One a bald Celtic female instead of an Asian male. That’s really the only example of significant “swapping” that has happened in the MCU that I can think of. Has there been any others?

Yes I get it the example I provided was not the best one, but the point I was making still stands even if the example doesn't.

 

[Disney Irish]

Appearances matter!

I'll take Race and Sex out of the conversation for my next Example. If Josh Gad or Jack Black were cast to play Superman. I wouldn't like the choice at all. They are both too short and fat to play the role.

Brandon Routh was the right height and build but yet he turned in one of the worse performances as Superman, same with Kate Bosworth as Lois. And I say that as someone who actually liked Superman Returns. So its not about appearance, its about performance.

The right actor/actress for a part doesn't necessarily have to have the "right look" in order to play a character and turn in an iconic performance.

 

[Disney Irish]

You can't blame Brandon Routh for "Superman Returns". That's like blaming Ryan Reynolds for "The Green Lantern" and Gal Gadot for "Wonder Woman 84". It's the Writers and Directors faults for how they turned out.

I thought Brandon Routh and Kevin Spacey were great in the roles. The movie was just a mess from start to finish. Who does a sequel to a film from 1978 with a whole new cast? I'll tell you who, an idiot.

You certainly can blame the actors/actresses for their performances, and Routh didn't turn in a stellar performance. Neither did Spacey for that matter.

And yes Reynolds can be blamed for Green Lantern, heck he blames himself. Even makes fun of the film in Deadpool and Deadpool2, including shooting himself in an attempt to prevent himself from taking the role.

But I do agree on the Gal Gadot point, as that wasn't her fault with 1984. But you're also talking about an actress that turned in a stellar performance in the role, which actually proves my point. If an actor/actress turns in a stellar/iconic performance even in spite of the material then they have become that character.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I disagree, Nick Fury is a great example of why this idea that you can't race swap is misguided. SLJ IS Nick Fury even though he looks nothing like the character in the comics. Sure you had some fans at the beginning call out that he isn't Fury from the comics, but because SLJ is so iconic in the role you can't imagine anyone else playing the character now in the MCU.

Point is any actor that gives an iconic portrayal of a character no matter if their skin color is different aren't having anyone but the most misguided taken out of the film.

My only problem is when the swapping causes narrative confusion. Disneyland's production of Frozen for awhile was running Black actors for Anna and Elsa's parents and a Black actress for Elsa, but a White actress playing Anna, which caused narrative confusion vis-a-vis Anna's paternity.

 

[Disney Irish]

My only problem is when the swapping causes narrative confusion. Disneyland's production of Frozen for awhile was running Black actors for Anna and Elsa's parents and a Black actress for Elsa, but a White actress playing Anna, which caused narrative confusion vis-a-vis Anna's paternity.

That one I won't argue with, but I chalk that up to Parks trying to find the best voice talent while also trying to be inclusive. But its also not the first time that Broadway shows have done that, Hamilton being a prime example.

But overall I don't have an issue with it.