Marvel's Fantastic Four

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

My only problem is when the swapping causes narrative confusion. Disneyland's production of Frozen for awhile was running Black actors for Anna and Elsa's parents and a Black actress for Elsa, but a White actress playing Anna, which caused narrative confusion vis-a-vis Anna's paternity.

For reference, there were Black performers cast in all the main roles (including Elsa, Anna and Hans), but because they were going for colorblind casting (ala Hamilton as noted above), they intentionally mixed the characters together on stage.

Here's a song performance (sorry for the poor quality video but it was a couple of generations of phones ago!) with the funniest Anna in the cast and definitely the MOST charming Hans!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

For reference, there were Black performers cast in all the main roles (including Elsa, Anna and Hans), but because they were going for colorblind casting (ala Hamilton as noted above), they intentionally mixed the characters together on stage.

Here's a song performance (sorry for the poor quality video but it was a couple of generations of phones ago!) with the funniest Anna in the cast and definitely the MOST charming Hans!

Understood. I guess my point is that I don't like colorblind casting for lineal family members. Colorblind-cast Mom, colorblind-cast Dad, I'm good with that. But I think it makes more sense if the biological children of Mom and Dad be plausible offspring of the two. When two siblings are a different race than one another, it implies that one or both of them is adopted.

I don't think Hamilton really applies, at least with the original cast, because Anthony Ramos and LMM are both Puerto Rican.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

Understood. I guess my point is that I don't like colorblind casting for lineal family members. Colorblind-cast Mom, colorblind-cast Dad, I'm good with that. But I think it makes more sense if the biological children of Mom and Dad be plausible offspring of the two. When two siblings are a different race than one another, it implies that one or both of them is adopted.

I don't think Hamilton really applies, at least with the original cast, because Anthony Ramos and LMM are both Puerto Rican.

For Hamilton, see: the Schuyler Sisters played originally by Renee Elise Goldsberry, Phillipa Soo and Jasmine Cephas Jones. Hamilton did colorblind casting throughout the production - including for family members.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

For Hamilton, see: the Schuyler Sisters played originally by Renee Elise Goldsberry, Phillipa Soo and Jasmine Cephas Jones. Hamilton did colorblind casting throughout the production - including for family members.

Derp I forgot about the sisters, my head went to "kids" and all I thought about was Philip.

 

[Disney Irish]

We will have to agree to disagree on Superman Returns.

Ryan Reynolds pokes fun at Green Lantern because he hates the movie and it tanked. If it wasn't so overly CGI'ed and had a better villain, things probably would have turned out different. The faults of the film shouldn't lie on the actors.

The same can be said about Wonder Woman 84, for it's bad CGI and bad villains.

Actually Reynolds famously said he pokes fun at himself for his contribution to it failing, ie his acting:

Ryan Reynolds Explains Why He Keeps Joking About Green Lantern

Touche.

www.cinemablend.com

So yes you most certainly can and should blame actors/actresses for their contributions to the films that fail, especially when they do it to themselves. Why do you think we have fake award shows like the Razzies, to poke fun at the bad performances actors/actresses turn in.

 

[Disney Irish]

What Went Wrong With the 2011 Green Lantern Movie?

In 2011 Warner Bros tried to launch the DC Extended Universe with a Green Lantern movie. It didn't work out.

www.denofgeek.com

I could find way more websites blaming the CGI and the bad villain than Ryan Reynolds. Next you'll be blaming him for Xmen origins: Wolverine.

Look, I wasn't saying that all that other stuff wasn't also to blame for the movies failure, it obviously was. But you can't just say that the actors/actresses are blameless. Especially if they themselves publicly state they take the blame for their part in the films failure.

Actor/actresses are not perfect, they make mistakes, they sometimes don't care about the project, distracted by personal issues, etc., all of which leads to bad performances. So just like any job if they perform badly they are called out for it.

 

[erasure fan1]

We understand your point and I think it would be a valid one, but it’s just not in this example since there already was an established version of Fury in the comics that was similar to the MCU version.

I saw an interview with one of the people creators of the run. They specifically said they based it on Sam Jackson playing the roll. So Fury in the mcu might be the most accurate comic casting yet. Lol

 

[Disney Irish]

Bottomline... Appearances matter. Take for example the casting of Captain America.

They went with "Chris Evans", a muscular, good looking white dude. Because that is what Captain America looks like in the comics. If they would have gone with say "Michael B. Jordan", a muscular good looking black dude, it wouldn't have been accurate.

Plus it would have taken everyone out of the story being told on screen. Because they'd be thinking in their head "That's not what Captain America looks like. This isn't real!" The same can be said for Ironman, Thor, Batman, Superman, Harry Potter, James Bond, etc.

And yet Captain America is now played by Anthony Mackie, a muscular good looking black dude, because that is actually very comics accurate.

 

[Disney Irish]

He's not the original Captain America, Steve Rogers. He's just another replacement in Phase Bore. Just like Riri Williams (Ironheart) and Jane Foster (Thor), retreads of more popular characters.

And yet again its comics accurate because it was something done in the comics where Sam Wilson became Captain America. Just like all the others you mentioned, they are all comics accurate character changes being taken straight from the comics.

 

[Disney Irish]

Bucky became Captain America before him, but they skipped over him in favor of Sam Wilson. So they aren't really sticking to the comics. The reason they did that is because Sam Wilson fits Phase Bores criteria much more. Which is an emphasis on adding more females and diverse characters.

Also you can't really judge the New Version of Comics the same as the Classic Versions. They wanted to just tell great stories back then. Nowadays however there's more of an emphasis on diverse individuals. So characters like America Chavez, Miss Marvel and Ironheart are getting Movies and TV series, even though their comics all failed miserably.

Since when has the MCU ever followed a strict timeline of the comics they would follow? They have always jumped around from different comic runs and different versions of the characters since the beginning.

So while its your opinion that the MCU characters have to have only a certain look doesn't mean that is the opinion of the entire MCU fan base. And honestly there is nothing wrong with that. If the MCU is meant to be for everyone, and I think it is, then everyone has to be able to see themselves in the characters, and that has to include having a muscular good looking black dude become Captain America.

 

[erasure fan1]

I've seen plenty of little girls of all colors dressed as white Disney princesses, and plenty of little boys of all colors dressed as white Marvel characters.

My son when he was in 1st grade wanted nothing more than to be the falcon from winter soldier. And he's a white kid. He didn't care the character wasn't the same as him. Just that he liked the character.

Besides there are plenty of characters (Black Panther, Blade, Luke Cage, Storm, Shang Chi) that look like them.

A lot of the characters of color are not that well known and Disney seems afraid to try and use them. And it's fairly silly in my eyes because if they can make a tree that says 3 words and a talking racoon amongst the most popular characters in Marvel. Even though NO ONE outside of a few comic nerds had any clue they existed. They can definitely do the same with the lesser known diverse characters. The problem in my eyes is modern Disney is just too lazy. And it's sad because they did it perfect in winter soldier with Falcon.

 

[Disney Irish]

I think you can still see yourself as a character even if they look different from you. People don't have to be the same race or sex to do that. I think it's ridiculous whenever someone says that. I've seen plenty of little girls of all colors dressed as white Disney princesses, and plenty of little boys of all colors dressed as white Marvel characters.

Besides there are plenty of characters (Black Panther, Blade, Luke Cage, Storm, Shang Chi) that look like them. They don't have to steal someone else's character to feel represented. It just demeans minorities, by giving them lesser versions of already established characters.

"Steal someone else's character"?!? Who is stealing characters? Marvel? Nope, its their characters in the first place. They can do whatever they want with them including changing the characters skin color to white, black, brown, or even green.

I think its best to move on from this topic and just agree to disagree.

 

[Prince-1]

I think you can still see yourself as a character even if they look different from you. People don't have to be the same race or sex to do that. I think it's ridiculous whenever someone says that. I've seen plenty of little girls of all colors dressed as white Disney princesses, and plenty of little boys of all colors dressed as white Marvel characters.

Besides there are plenty of characters (Black Panther, Blade, Luke Cage, Storm, Shang Chi) that look like them. They don't have to steal someone else's character to feel represented. It just demeans minorities, by giving them lesser versions of already established characters.

A black Captain America has existed in Marvel comics for many years. No one is stealing anything.

 

[Prince-1]

Nope, 2014 isn't MANY YEARS.

He's Falcon, he should have just stayed Falcon in the MCU. It was his own thing, not a cheap knockoff and a stereotype of his own race.

Actually, 8+ years is indeed considered to be many years but I think it could be 25 years and you would still have a problem with a black character being Captain America. Go complain to Marvel and tell them that they ruined your day.

 

[Prince-1]

LOL, You're wrong, so you have to change the subject. You sound like Disney blaming the fans for their bad shows.

Lol, I have no idea what you are talking about. You obviously have an issue with a black character being CA and a few of us pointed out the simple fact that this came from a storyline from the comics. Moving on....

 

[Disney Irish]

Nope, 2014 isn't MANY YEARS.

He's Falcon, he should have just stayed Falcon in the MCU. It was his own thing, not a cheap knockoff and a stereotype of his own race.

Actually in the comics Isaiah Bradley was introduced as the first black Captain America back in 2002, 20 years ago. The story line was meant to be reminiscent of the Tuskegee testing and similar other experimentation that happened specifically to black soldiers during the war. He is not some cheap knockoff and is now also official in the MCU as having been in Falcon and Winter Soldier.

So two decades would be considered many years ago at this point.

Also Captain America is a mantle, not a single person. Its been used by many characters over its history going all the way back to the origin of the mantle in 1945.

There is nothing wrong with anyone preferring Steve Rogers be Captain America. However since there is a long history of other characters taking up the mantle including characters of other races then it should be no surprise that its also happening in the MCU.

 

[Disney Irish]

People are allowed to have criticisms about characters, even if they are black. To cry "Racist" or "Sexist" is just weak and shows you don't have a leg to stand on.

Well this all started because you specifically posted:

I wonder who they are going to Gender or Race swap in this one???

If you want a specific "look" for a character that is fine. But when you specifically call out Marvel for Gender and Race swapping in a perceived negative way don't be surprised when other posters take issue with that.

Anyways like I mentioned before its probably best that we just end this and move on.

 

[DCBaker]

No casting news today -

 

[MisterPenguin]

No casting news today -

Indeed, we already knew about Shakman and had the date.

 

[Screamface]

Nice, he directed a wonderful short film called "Franks Brother.'"