MickeyMouse10
Well-Known Member
Nope, I'm not. It's just you are wrong Buddy.
He's been black in the comics since 2002. So it isn't just a random race swap like "The Little Mermaid", "Cinderella" and "Anne Boleyn" (whose a real person).
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Marvel's Fantastic Four
- Thread starter Darkprime
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Nope, I'm not. It's just you are wrong Buddy.
He's been black in the comics since 2002. So it isn't just a random race swap like "The Little Mermaid", "Cinderella" and "Anne Boleyn" (whose a real person).
doctornick
Well-Known Member
We understand your point and I think it would be a valid one, but it’s just not in this example since there already was an established version of Fury in the comics that was similar to the MCU version. The type of people who might complain about such things didn’t really have that basis for complaint so it was accepted.
The better example in the MCU is making the Ancient One a bald Celtic female instead of an Asian male. That’s really the only example of significant “swapping” that has happened in the MCU that I can think of. Has there been any others?
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
The example I provided was probably not the best.
However with that said, the point still stands. It shouldn't matter, and it doesn't to most out there, if a Marvel character in the MCU has been race swapped as long as the actor/actress playing the character turns in an iconic performance. That is the point, which you clearly keep missing or just out right ignoring.
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
Yes I get it the example I provided was not the best one, but the point I was making still stands even if the example doesn't.We understand your point and I think it would be a valid one, but it’s just not in this example since there already was an established version of Fury in the comics that was similar to the MCU version. The type of people who might complain about such things didn’t really have that basis for complaint so it was accepted.
The better example in the MCU is making the Ancient One a bald Celtic female instead of an Asian male. That’s really the only example of significant “swapping” that has happened in the MCU that I can think of. Has there been any others?
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MickeyMouse10
Well-Known Member
The example I provided was probably not the best.
However with that said, the point still stands. It shouldn't matter, and it doesn't to most out there, if a Marvel character in the MCU has been race swapped as long as the actor/actress playing the character turns in an iconic performance. That is the point, which you clearly keep missing or just out right ignoring.
Appearances matter!
I'll take Race and Sex out of the conversation for my next Example. If Josh Gad or Jack Black were cast to play Superman. I wouldn't like the choice at all. They are both too short and fat to play the role.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Brandon Routh was the right height and build but yet he turned in one of the worse performances as Superman, same with Kate Bosworth as Lois. And I say that as someone who actually liked Superman Returns. So its not about appearance, its about performance.
The right actor/actress for a part doesn't necessarily have to have the "right look" in order to play a character and turn in an iconic performance.
MickeyMouse10
Well-Known Member
Brandon Routh was the right height and build but yet he turned in one of the worse performances as Superman, same with Kate Bosworth as Lois. And I say that as someone who actually liked Superman Returns. So its not about appearance, its about performance.
The right actor/actress for a part doesn't necessarily have to have the "right look" in order to play a character and turn in an iconic performance.
You can't blame Brandon Routh for "Superman Returns". That's like blaming Ryan Reynolds for "The Green Lantern" and Gal Gadot for "Wonder Woman 84". It's the Writers and Directors faults for how they turned out.
I thought Brandon Routh and Kevin Spacey were great in the roles. The movie was just a mess from start to finish. Who does a sequel to a film from 1978 with a whole new cast? I'll tell you who, an idiot.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
You certainly can blame the actors/actresses for their performances, and Routh didn't turn in a stellar performance. Neither did Spacey for that matter.
And yes Reynolds can be blamed for Green Lantern, heck he blames himself. Even makes fun of the film in Deadpool and Deadpool2, including shooting himself in an attempt to prevent himself from taking the role.
But I do agree on the Gal Gadot point, as that wasn't her fault with 1984. But you're also talking about an actress that turned in a stellar performance in the role, which actually proves my point. If an actor/actress turns in a stellar/iconic performance even in spite of the material then they have become that character.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
My only problem is when the swapping causes narrative confusion. Disneyland's production of Frozen for awhile was running Black actors for Anna and Elsa's parents and a Black actress for Elsa, but a White actress playing Anna, which caused narrative confusion vis-a-vis Anna's paternity.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
That one I won't argue with, but I chalk that up to Parks trying to find the best voice talent while also trying to be inclusive. But its also not the first time that Broadway shows have done that, Hamilton being a prime example.
But overall I don't have an issue with it.
MarvelCharacterNerd
Well-Known Member
For reference, there were Black performers cast in all the main roles (including Elsa, Anna and Hans), but because they were going for colorblind casting (ala Hamilton as noted above), they intentionally mixed the characters together on stage.
Here's a song performance (sorry for the poor quality video but it was a couple of generations of phones ago!) with the funniest Anna in the cast and definitely the MOST charming Hans!
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
For reference, there were Black performers cast in all the main roles (including Elsa, Anna and Hans), but because they were going for colorblind casting (ala Hamilton as noted above), they intentionally mixed the characters together on stage.
Here's a song performance (sorry for the poor quality video but it was a couple of generations of phones ago!) with the funniest Anna in the cast and definitely the MOST charming Hans!
Understood. I guess my point is that I don't like colorblind casting for lineal family members. Colorblind-cast Mom, colorblind-cast Dad, I'm good with that. But I think it makes more sense if the biological children of Mom and Dad be plausible offspring of the two. When two siblings are a different race than one another, it implies that one or both of them is adopted.
I don't think Hamilton really applies, at least with the original cast, because Anthony Ramos and LMM are both Puerto Rican.
MarvelCharacterNerd
Well-Known Member
For Hamilton, see: the Schuyler Sisters played originally by Renee Elise Goldsberry, Phillipa Soo and Jasmine Cephas Jones. Hamilton did colorblind casting throughout the production - including for family members.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
Derp I forgot about the sisters, my head went to "kids" and all I thought about was Philip.
MickeyMouse10
Well-Known Member
We will have to agree to disagree on Superman Returns.
Ryan Reynolds pokes fun at Green Lantern because he hates the movie and it tanked. If it wasn't so overly CGI'ed and had a better villain, things probably would have turned out different. The faults of the film shouldn't lie on the actors.
The same can be said about Wonder Woman 84, for it's bad CGI and bad villains.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Actually Reynolds famously said he pokes fun at himself for his contribution to it failing, ie his acting:
So yes you most certainly can and should blame actors/actresses for their contributions to the films that fail, especially when they do it to themselves. Why do you think we have fake award shows like the Razzies, to poke fun at the bad performances actors/actresses turn in.
MickeyMouse10
Well-Known Member
Actually Reynolds famously said he pokes fun at himself for his contribution to it failing, ie his acting:
So yes you most certainly can and should blame actors/actresses for their contributions to the films that fail, especially when they do it to themselves. Why do you think we have fake award shows like the Razzies, to poke fun at the bad performances actors/actresses turn in.
He's just being modest, he's Canadian. They can't help, but be nice.
MickeyMouse10
Well-Known Member
What Went Wrong With the 2011 Green Lantern Movie?
In 2011 Warner Bros tried to launch the DC Extended Universe with a Green Lantern movie. It didn't work out.
www.denofgeek.com
I could find way more websites blaming the CGI and the bad villain than Ryan Reynolds. Next you'll be blaming him for Xmen origins: Wolverine.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Look, I wasn't saying that all that other stuff wasn't also to blame for the movies failure, it obviously was. But you can't just say that the actors/actresses are blameless. Especially if they themselves publicly state they take the blame for their part in the films failure.What Went Wrong With the 2011 Green Lantern Movie?
In 2011 Warner Bros tried to launch the DC Extended Universe with a Green Lantern movie. It didn't work out.
I could find way more websites blaming the CGI and the bad villain than Ryan Reynolds. Next you'll be blaming him for Xmen origins: Wolverine.
Actor/actresses are not perfect, they make mistakes, they sometimes don't care about the project, distracted by personal issues, etc., all of which leads to bad performances. So just like any job if they perform badly they are called out for it.
MickeyMouse10
Well-Known Member
Bottomline... Appearances matter. Take for example the casting of Captain America.
They went with "Chris Evans", a muscular, good looking white dude. Because that is what Captain America looks like in the comics. If they would have gone with say "Michael B. Jordan", a muscular good looking black dude, it wouldn't have been accurate.
Plus it would have taken everyone out of the story being told on screen. Because they'd be thinking in their head "That's not what Captain America looks like. This isn't real!" The same can be said for Ironman, Thor, Batman, Superman, Harry Potter, James Bond, etc.
They went with "Chris Evans", a muscular, good looking white dude. Because that is what Captain America looks like in the comics. If they would have gone with say "Michael B. Jordan", a muscular good looking black dude, it wouldn't have been accurate.
Plus it would have taken everyone out of the story being told on screen. Because they'd be thinking in their head "That's not what Captain America looks like. This isn't real!" The same can be said for Ironman, Thor, Batman, Superman, Harry Potter, James Bond, etc.