MARVEL at WDW?

[jt04]

Incorrect information here. Universal Hollywood had a separate contract with Marvel that coincidentally expired around the time the deal was made. They had nothing to do with each other (nice try, though.)

Funny they never renewed that contract. I am sure that is just a "coincidence" though. :lookaroun:lol:

 

[Skip]

Funny they never renewed that contract. I am sure that is just a "coincidence" though. :lookaroun:lol:

Okay, so you replace what you claimed was a fact (which was quickly disproven) with rampant speculation. The only Marvel "attraction" they had was a restaurant/shop called Marvel Mania. It waned in popularity and it closed, long before the contract even expired. They decided not to renew since they didn't have the rights to the characters on the West Coast to do anything more elaborate (ala Super Hero Island).

 

[RSoxNo1]

Universal quickly removed all Marvel references at their park in California almost as soon as the deal happened. That is the indication that it bothers them.

Of course if they did the same at IoA they would lose their rights. They obviously can't just shut down MSHI. That is the dilemma. Do they stop promoting a profitable Disney franchise that is helping fund their competion or do the drop the Marvel theme park rights and replace it with an overlay (and merchandise) to a franchise they do own which would improve the resort's bottom line in a day and age when that matters a lot?

It is a conundrum. :lookaroun:lol:

The contract expired several weeks before Disney acquired Marvel. Universal elected not to renew it, presumably not knowing what Disney was up to.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Paramount is a competing media company that would get money from Transformers. Warner Brothers is a competing media company that is getting money from Potter. Fox is a competing media company that gets money from Simpsons. Disney is a competing media company that gets money form Marvel. I don't really think they care about funding other companies that are in direct competition with the parent company.

Excellent point.

 

[AEfx]

As for someone's argument that they're just putting the Spider-Man animation back in the computer - no, they're completely reanimating it. The press release was quite clear about that. Look at the image released of the new animation and tell me it's just an HD version.

I'm sorry, you are simply mistaken. As I fully explained above, "reanimated" does not mean "start from scratch". That would be "recreate". Besides that, number one, what samples you have seen on the Internet are simply that - samples. They may have simply been for show, but even if they aren't, Number 2, if you have even a basic knowledge of computer animation, you'd know these assets already exist and making a character move five feet over or what have you, or applying a new texture, takes a keystroke, not any amount of real man power.

The point is, they aren't spending a great deal of money to do this, like some speculate. If given proper access to the original files, a high school student could do it in their spare time. "Reanimating" is as meaningless a term as "remastering" - it really doesn't mean anything, and could have simply meant they flipped the computer on, changed the setting to output in HD, and clicked "Compile" as the computer does the actual animation itself.

I don't understand this at all. What indication is there whatsoever that this bothers Universal? They contracted with Marvel to use their characters. They got it when Marvel was down and pay next to nothing for the privilege, at least compared to what such a deal would cost today. And they pay Marvel a percentage of merchandise sold, not a big deal either. The fact that Marvel is owned by Disney changes nothing. They get to use these hot Marvel characters on the cheap and in doing so they deny Disney the very use of property Disney owns. And there is nothing Disney can do about it. This is one of the greatest "pimping over" of a competitor in history. Universal doesn't have this hanging over their head. Disney does.

See, this is exactly, EXACTLY the type of post I was referring to.

"Uni kicks Disney in the bum with this one! How can you not see it?"

One can just as easily say, "Disney has Uni by the nuts on this one!! Every time a cash register rings up a Spiderman T-Shirt at Uni it's cash going into Disney's pocket! Why would Disney want out of this??"


It's all fanboy nonsense.

The truth is, neither company wants to be in this position. It's messy. We can talk about who's got the better end of the deal until we are blue in the face (and we have), but it is not truly advantageous for either company to be in bed like this. The only reason it's even tolerated is because the general public does not yet associate Disney and Marvel whatsoever. It has nothing to do with theme parks, or rivalries, etc., it's simple business - you do not want to be dependent, in bed, or contractually associated with your closest competitor. If they could (forgive the reference) wave a magic wand, the situation would just disappear. No one "likes" it, besides Internet folk who like to picture it as some Mano-e-mano grudge match.

 

[GLaDOS]

It's messy.

No, it really isn't. If these companies were just comprised of WDW and Universal Orlando, it would be.

But both resorts are small parts in a much larger machine. And those machines don't lose sleep over the situation at all.

As I illustrated earlier, Comcast and NBC/Universal are already paying a myriad of people they compete against every day for character rights. This is no different.

 

[AEfx]

No, it really isn't. If these companies were just comprised of WDW and Universal Orlando, it would be.

But both resorts are small parts in a much larger machine. And those machines don't lose sleep over the situation at all.

As I illustrated earlier, Comcast and NBC/Universal are already paying a myriad of people they compete against every day for character rights. This is no different.

I didn't say they were losing any sleep, but I did say both companies would rather the situation just go away or did not exist to begin with.

As "messy" doesn't have a technical definition, it would be pointless to argue that point - in my opinion, it's what I would term messy - as in a situation that neither party particularly would choose to be a part of if there were a choice.

 

[jt04]

Yes, I think it is time to revive this subject that we have discussed here in detail. I'm sure everyone is pretty familiar with the subject and where regular posters stand on the issue.

So I guess the rumor is circulating that Transformers may be coming to Orlando. The big question is will it go to IoA or the Studio park. It is a fact that the old HRC is being bulldozed so that may be for Transformers but I think it is also possible that paying royalties to the mouse does not sit well with Universal execs and they will transform MSHI to Transformer-land. At which point Disney could use all Marvel characters at WDW. This has been my prediction since Disney bought Marvel. I have taken a lot of criticism for my take on it but what else is new? :lol:

So, anyone care to go on the record as to whether you think Marvel will soon be at WDW?

PS- I am fully aware that there may be a thread in the Universal section but my aim is to focus this thread on the 'Marvel at WDW' rumor.

PSS- the source of the Transformer's rumor is Mr Spielberg. I would say that gives it some credibility.


Link: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/fe...transformers-announcement-should-be-soon.html

Just wanted to update and bump this thread. The old HRC is now demolished as I announced it would be a few weeks ago.

So, I think this must mean some sort of expansion which makes sense considering Legoland opens in a few days, Sea World is expanding with several new attractions and Disney is developing Avatarland for DAK. Universal will have to keep pace in some way.

 

[maxairmike]

Marvel Super Hero Island looked as fresh as ever Monday morning, and Spiderman is starting to look better as well. The two are completely unrelated (MSHI and the former HRC), and I doubt anything other than an expansion of the kids area will come of its destruction. It was an old, abandoned building that had no purpose. The "empty" area between Simpsons and MIB contains their fireworks storage, which probably requires most of the land buffer that exists as well as the "bunker" surrounding the storage pods. If they do away with fireworks completely, yes, they could expand.

Marvel isn't leaving Universal anytime soon (read, next 5-10 years), and if it does, I would expect an ungodly sum of money to exchange hands in some fashion.

 

[jt04]

Marvel Super Hero Island looked as fresh as ever Monday morning, and Spiderman is starting to look better as well. The two are completely unrelated (MSHI and the former HRC), and I doubt anything other than an expansion of the kids area will come of its destruction. It was an old, abandoned building that had no purpose. The "empty" area between Simpsons and MIB contains their fireworks storage, which probably requires most of the land buffer that exists as well as the "bunker" surrounding the storage pods. If they do away with fireworks completely, yes, they could expand.

Marvel isn't leaving Universal anytime soon (read, next 5-10 years), and if it does, I would expect an ungodly sum of money to exchange hands in some fashion.

Uh-huh.

I will agree if Universal announces that Transformers is going into their studio park and not IoA.

As for Disney paying to buy out the Marvel rights from IoA, I just do not see it happening. The arrangement, as is, is just too beneficial to the mouse.

 

[maxairmike]

Anything related to Transformers will likely be a single attraction, not an entire land. Universal made the "first move" with Potter and is still sitting pretty. They have no need for another blockbuster land, especially since Lost Continent will likely be swallowed up into the Wizarding World in 5 years. Legoland infringes more on Disney's key demographic than Universal's anyway. Transformers further cements this issue. I get that some here want Marvel at WDW, but despite the twisting and contorting of situations, I don't see it happening any time soon. Not to "toot my own horn," but if you spend any regular time in the parks and around people who know the industry and get involved in it yourself, it isn't hard to see.

It is a licensing agreement, just like Universal has with FOX and Warner Brothers, two other competing studios. Universal isn't paying money to Disney Parks and Resorts, its going to the Marvel arm. If Disney is using the money directly in P&R, specifically WDW, that would be incredibly stupid, petty, and short-sighted on the part of Disney. In fact, there's a better chance that the royalties and fees paid to FOX and WB goes directly into competing movies and TV shows than the royalties Universal pays to Marvel going into P&R.

Oh, and by holding on to Marvel, they deprive the Mouse of using one of "its own" franchises in its parks. That's got to be worth something in the largely made up egotistical competition between the two, right?

 

[jt04]

Anything related to Transformers will likely be a single attraction, not an entire land. Universal made the "first move" with Potter and is still sitting pretty. They have no need for another blockbuster land, especially since Lost Continent will likely be swallowed up into the Wizarding World in 5 years. Legoland infringes more on Disney's key demographic than Universal's anyway. Transformers further cements this issue. I get that some here want Marvel at WDW, but despite the twisting and contorting of situations, I don't see it happening any time soon. Not to "toot my own horn," but if you spend any regular time in the parks and around people who know the industry and get involved in it yourself, it isn't hard to see.

It is a licensing agreement, just like Universal has with FOX and Warner Brothers, two other competing studios. Universal isn't paying money to Disney Parks and Resorts, its going to the Marvel arm. If Disney is using the money directly in P&R, specifically WDW, that would be incredibly stupid, petty, and short-sighted on the part of Disney. In fact, there's a better chance that the royalties and fees paid to FOX and WB goes directly into competing movies and TV shows than the royalties Universal pays to Marvel going into P&R.

Oh, and by holding on to Marvel, they deprive the Mouse of using one of "its own" franchises in its parks. That's got to be worth something in the largely made up egotistical competition between the two, right?

No, no. As usual those on your side of the debate always end up spinning the details. Disney is not "deprived" from using Marvel in any of the parks except those at WDW. And with the announcement of AvatarLand it is now obvious that if Disney intends to exploit the Marvel franchise in the parks it will be elsewhere. Possibly California or Japan. Meanwhile Universal will help fund which ever way Disney uses Marvel. Suckers. :lol:

 

[maxairmike]

I realize I worded it poorly, but I never meant any of the other Disney parks besides WDW. And again, the royalties that Universal pays are not going into the P&R division directly, if at all. And again, Universal funds WB and FOX as well. So I guess they're suckers for funding two rival studios who are producing other directly competing content. The egotistical "competition" that many imagine between Disney and Universal just doesn't exist at the business end of it all. So Universal is not funding Disney's use of Marvel any more than they fund the production of the Simpsons and other FOX TV shows, or they fund WB productions. The money isn't going to P&R, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[GLaDOS]

I realize I worded it poorly, but I never meant any of the other Disney parks besides WDW. And again, the royalties that Universal pays are not going into the P&R division directly, if at all. And again, Universal funds WB and FOX as well. So I guess they're suckers for funding two rival studios who are producing other directly competing content. The egotistical "competition" that many imagine between Disney and Universal just doesn't exist at the business end of it all. So Universal is not funding Disney's use of Marvel any more than they fund the production of the Simpsons and other FOX TV shows, or they fund WB productions. The money isn't going to P&R, so it doesn't really matter.

I've tried to explain this to jt04 countless times.

Don't waste the energy it takes to type. He's intent on this being a bigger deal than it really is.

 

[lebeau]

Please don't get jt started again!

He has no idea what he's talking about, but he'll continue to spew misinformation till it makes your head spin. Many have tried, but he can't be reasoned with. There is a mountain of facts that refute everything jt has ever said on the subject. But jt won't be swayed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, no. As usual those on your side of the debate always end up spinning the details. Disney is not "deprived" from using Marvel in any of the parks except those at WDW. And with the announcement of AvatarLand it is now obvious that if Disney intends to exploit the Marvel franchise in the parks it will be elsewhere. Possibly California or Japan. Meanwhile Universal will help fund which ever way Disney uses Marvel. Suckers. :lol:

Exclusivity may well be in effect that would prevent usage at Tokyo Disney Resort and/or Disneyland Paris. So unless you have dug up the contracts between Marvel and Universal Studios Japan and Madam Tussauds London, you do not know. You also do not know how much Marvel makes off of the Universal Orlando deal as the numbers were redacted from the publicly available contract. Based on Marvel's situation at the time (desperate) the numbers are likely in Universal's favor as well and even more so now with the resurgence of Marvel.

 

[skellington22]

Hey, why wouldnt Universal partner with Warner Bros./Six flags and bring some of the DC characters to the IoA .... and say goodbye to marvel all together... they could but together more shows and rides with the likes of Batman,Superman,Green Lantern since they cant do anything else with Marvel... and Disney will most likely have an avengers ride in DHS ... its gotta happen

 

[skellington22]

Yes, I think it is time to revive this subject that we have discussed here in detail. I'm sure everyone is pretty familiar with the subject and where regular posters stand on the issue.

So I guess the rumor is circulating that Transformers may be coming to Orlando. The big question is will it go to IoA or the Studio park. It is a fact that the old HRC is being bulldozed so that may be for Transformers but I think it is also possible that paying royalties to the mouse does not sit well with Universal execs and they will transform MSHI to Transformer-land. At which point Disney could use all Marvel characters at WDW. This has been my prediction since Disney bought Marvel. I have taken a lot of criticism for my take on it but what else is new? :lol:

So, anyone care to go on the record as to whether you think Marvel will soon be at WDW?

PS- I am fully aware that there may be a thread in the Universal section but my aim is to focus this thread on the 'Marvel at WDW' rumor.

PSS- the source of the Transformer's rumor is Mr Spielberg. I would say that gives it some credibility.


Link: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/fe...transformers-announcement-should-be-soon.html

Hey, why wouldnt Universal partner with Warner Bros./Six flags and bring some of the DC characters to the IoA .... and say goodbye to marvel all together... they could but together more shows and rides with the likes of Batman,Superman,Green Lantern since they cant do anything else with Marvel... and Disney will most likely have an avengers ride in DHS ... its gotta happen

 

[WDW Vacationer]

Just wanted to update and bump this thread. The old HRC is now demolished as I announced it would be a few weeks ago.

So, I think this must mean some sort of expansion which makes sense considering Legoland opens in a few days, Sea World is expanding with several new attractions and Disney is developing Avatarland for DAK. Universal will have to keep pace in some way.

Just throwing out there that Universal is far ahead of any Orlando competition at this point with large projects completed and large projects underway or coming soon in every area of the resort.

They don't need to keep pace with anyone.

Disney, well...

 

[lebeau]

Just throwing out there that Universal is far ahead of any Orlando competition at this point with large projects completed and large projects underway or coming soon in every area of the resort.

They don't need to keep pace with anyone.

Disney, well...

You have made the classic mistake of not factoring Legoland into your equation...

(sarcasm in case there was any doubt)