Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine Florida's climate is any more hot and humid than Hong Kong's. It's also possible that the "brick" is not really brick, but some other material, much like the "pavement" in WDW is really concrete.
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Main Street U.S.A. concrete replacement project begins tomorrow
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
I can't imagine Florida's climate is any more hot and humid than Hong Kong's. It's also possible that the "brick" is not really brick, but some other material, much like the "pavement" in WDW is really concrete.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The Disneylands are not about historical recreation, they are about a romantic notion. As with all good fiction, there are rules that ground the fantastical which make it all the more believable. And good theme penetrates more than just the outward, exterior appearance. It should define as much as possible, from experiences to music to food to merchandise. That is the lesson relearned with the Wizarding World of Harry Potter and Cars Land.
My personal issue with Starbucks is not that they were founded in 1971 so much as the content and spirit of their beverages is not in keeping with the spirit of the street.
The Castles also fill a role from actual Main Streets, replacing the prominent civic structure that rose above and symbolized the town. At Main Street, USA, the gateway to the Magic Kingdom, walking down the street reveals the special and unique identity of this place and what else exists in the Kingdom's realms. The initial drawings showed a far more medieval fortification that was replaced by a more romantic, 19th century image of the castle.
A lot of research went into the design of the original lands. Some greater liberties were taken (ie. Frito Kid or the very contemporary Kodak shop on Main Street, USA) but many were often for sponsorships that would be put aside as finances improved and the medium grew. It has only been since the mid-1990s that Disney has embraced the purely aesthetic approach to design (the only the outside matters idea) and it doesn't work nearly as well as creating a more structured idea that is inside, out and all around.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
In the early 1900's the spirit of Main Street would have been to provide for the wants and needs of the people of the town. The people that walk on MSUSA are a whole lot different then the people that walked on MS in 1900. There needs and wants are different. In that sense MSUSA is providing for today's population. Yesterdays might have wanted a bag of ground coffee, today's wants Starbucks. The only difference, besides the culture, is that one is modern for now and 1900 it would have been whatever was modern for that time.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Then you have themed decoration and not a themed experience.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
How can you seriously have a themed experience on Main Street with a Castle at the end of the block? Gosh, I guess every Main Street in the USA looks like that or did in 1900. It is all done in the imagination anyway. Imagine it and it will be.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Themed experience is not synonymous with historical recreation.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying, but, I think in this case (castle wise) it cannot escape detracting from the experience if your goal is Main Street USA.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Again, typologically the Castle does exist on real Main Streets. In real cases it is often a civic structure such as the city hall or courthouse (churches are a bit rarer). As American towns were marked by a proud symbol of the republic so too is the Magic Kingdom marked by the proud symbol of the Disneyland. Cinderella Castle and the Hub were not designed to dominate Main Street, USA the way they do today. The landscape design of the Hub created a separation and curtain that obscured and revealed the majestic Castle at the end of the street and the gateway to the realms of the kingdom.
Sped2424
Well-Known Member
which is why there was an abundance of trees!
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
OK, stretch it all you want, but if you can tell me a time that the castle wasn't visible from the train station, I will be amazed. It's not all that important anyway. I also could have guessed that the "church" connection would be made because I thought of that myself, but a castle a church ain't.
Let's face it, from the moment we step inside a Disney park we must use our imagination and ability to block out reality and just see what we are being told we should see. I believe it's call "suspension of disbelief". It seems to me that whatever might be inside those stores should be easy to file away under not part of the story, just a necessary evil of a theme park experience and sort of move along...nothing to see here attitude.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
OK, stretch it all you want, but if you can tell me a time that the castle wasn't visible from the train station, I will be amazed. It's not all that important anyway. I also could have guessed that the "church" connection would be made because I thought of that myself, but a castle a church ain't.
The landscape design of the Hub was not about totally obscuring Cinderella Castle. Its intention was to create layers and depth. It made the Castle more of a distant vision that revealed itself the more one moved forward.
Typology is not about a certain program, but a role in a development pattern. It does not matter that a church is not a castle or a courthouse, because that specific use is not what is important to the organization of the space.
Suspension of disbelief is not about accepting anything and everything. Nor are the shops of Disney parks being decorated big box stores a necessary evil of theme parks, as the condition is not original or universal. The facades of Main Street, USA were not intended to break up a large mass, but to distinguish different stores. There is no theme park necessity about a barber shop, but it is part of creating an experience that goes beyond mere aesthetics.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I'm really not trying to talk you out of what you believe, just more expressing how I see it. I don't even necessarily disagree that it would be nice if every facade were separated on the inside with specialty items. However, in there someplace a little reality has to be accepted. That reality is that apparently, that concept wasn't working in Disney's favor or enough to justify it continuing. We don't know what Walt would have thought about the situation but what we do know is that Walt is no longer in charge and we get what we get or what we are willing to pay for. You know, as well as I, that if those individual venues had been successful, Disney Co. is way to greedy to not have it still be that way.
It's the realities within the fantasy that we have to come to grips with. If we want to continue to enjoy our overall park experience, we need to find a way past it and enjoy what we do have. It has been said many times that the only power we have is with our wallets. That can work both ways, either by holding it back or supporting what existed so it didn't go away. Real life is pretty much in the background at a Disney park, but it exists whether we like it or not.
I was to dumb to ever put any concern over what was inside those places. To me Main Street was what I had to pass through to get to what I really wanted to do. I thought it was pretty and I thought that with the street activity, with or without the old cars and trolleys running all day was more then sufficient to keep me happy. You want to blame someone for cars, buses or trolley's not existing anymore, try blaming the idiots that were either to stupid or to entitled to move out of the way of moving vehicles that made it to dangerous to do anymore. Anything that goes away in a capitalistic setting can usually be traced to US not participating or supporting the concept. Another big part of the reality within the fantasy is that a Disney park is indeed a capitalistic venture and we cannot change that. We don't have to support it if the situation makes it unbearable, but then we have to weigh that against the good stuff before we make such a drastic change.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
But isn't that reading MS backwards?
Sure enough, today, MS suffers from 'façadism'. Indeed, one could mistake MS for just a series of pretty store fronts that bear no relation to what's inside. But this is largely a result of neglect, vandalism and runaway Walmartisation.
Previously, MS would have a cinema, called a cinema, in a building which resembled a cinema, inside and outside. Now it's a façade, behind which a pin shop. MS would have a bakery, in a building called a bakery, that resembled a bakery. Today, it houses a large coffee franchise chain. And there was a Penny Arcade, and etc.
Interiors and exteriors told the same 'story', cooperated.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
That's such a sad thing to read.
Main Street once was one of the crowning achievements of WED. Some of the best theming and placemaking in any Disney park. A happy factory.
Now it's a stinking Walmart that guests travel through on their way to the Magic Kingdom.
Future Imagineer
Active Member
Is the concrete that bad because we are going to Disney World in 3 Days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I wouldn't want to see people putting in concrete but I'm not the only one.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Sad or not...I'm starting to get the idea that this is what it has been to most people. Think about walking into MK and Main Street. How many of the hundreds of people that enter the park just keep on walking OR running through MS to get to the stuff they want. Maybe Disney and Fastpass is somewhat responsible for that in some cases, but when I think back pre-fastpass I can remember that at rope drop there was a literal stampede towards Space Mountain. It made the Brazilian groups look like angels. They'd mow down anyone in the way. The reason why it was "walmarted" is because that was the only thing that worked and generated a cash flow. That's more cultural then anything.
DrewmanS
Well-Known Member
Agreed, but unfortunately times and people change. When MK opened, IASW was an E-ticket, now people expect big exciting rides. As a kid, I use to love the penny arcade, theater showing b/w Mickey Mouse cartoons, and the magic shop. Today, kids play photorealistic video games at home, there are multiple Disney channels to watch, and magic kits can be bought in any toy store. The nostalgic factor was not enough and people started by-passing MS. But people did want Mickey Ears and other merchandise. So much so, that the Emporium swallowed up a street.
So yes, today we are left with a street that is themed to the turn of the last century, but provides for the modern wants and needs of guests instead of providing nostalgia.
It is human nature to want things to return to what they once were. But is is also true that our memory of those things are often different from the reality. The games in the penny arcade were well worn and often broken. I probably spent less then 5 minutes in the theater watching the cartoons. The items in the magic shop were cheap dime store items (at least the ones my Mom bought me) that rarely lasted a week.
You know what though, to my 6 and 8 year old boys, it is still the most magical place on earth. We go about once every two years and as soon as we get home they are talking about the next visit. With his iPod touch and all the modern technology at home, my 8 year old still gets an angelic smile when we ride IASW. Coming home with a new souvenir from the Emporium is probably as lasting a memory for him as a visit to MS was for me at his age.
wogwog
Well-Known Member
No pictures. I am sure someone will post some pictures soon. Being local I do frequent MK many times a year but we are in the middle of the hot summer, daily rain as in every day but one in July so far, and it is still active Brazilian group season so it is not some place I want to visit soon. But I can write a visual for you from history and some inside info. You will see walls around any construction work. Don't worry about open pits or construction equipment moving around during your visit. When the entire front of buildings are refurbished you frequent visitors know a life size picture of the building is plastered over the construction wall. Since this work is only street level we may only see low walls maybe just decorated with pictures or such. Probably soon walls will extend beyond the sidewalks into the street as has been done in the past causing issues for parades. I would guess parades will be detoured or canceled at times. This will be a several month project slowly moving from Town Square toward and perhaps all the way to Center St.. I understand the end result may be absolutely no curbs will remain in the area. Think like in front of the Train Station or the Castle Hub at the top of Main St. wher the statue of Walt an Mickey is situated. Only a little ramping at the doors to the shops from the sidewalk to avoid a step up to enter. They must accomodate the strollers. The rest of the new sidewalk from the street to the building front will be as level as possible after allowance for draining. Other than the walls you should not be disturbed by construction noise or traffic during a visit as actual work will be done while the park is closed at night.
At the moment only the corner at Emporium AKA MM Wal-Mart is being blocked off. Phase one of many. I was told the next area will be the corner at the Confectionary.
Part of the project should include some extensive street paving as the present street condition is not "pretty" with lots of temporary patch work that can't withstand the constant travel of heavy parade floats. The street work is only a guess by me at the moment but it really needs to be done. I see crumbled bits of the street at joints in the paving and next to the trolly tracks where temporary patches have become common.
The project is scheduled to take several months.
muteki
Well-Known Member
That is generally what I was most interested in, because I know they can't do it all at once, but also can't have a patchy uneven surface when all is said and done. Ideally they could take it in as large a pieces as possible but as you said with foot traffic, parades, etc I see this getting very complicated.