Magic Kingdom ranks as 2nd most favorite amusement park in the U.S. !

[Goofyernmost]

I did not say Hulk was crap (because it isn't) nor did I say a ride has to be built by Disney for it to be good (because it does not). My opinion is that Mine Train is underappreciated by Disney fans and I think it is a phenomenal ride, though a bit short. I haven't said that people cannot have their own opinions - I welcome them.

It's kind of like the idea that the critics give it thumbs down, yet the public gives it a very enthusiastic thumbs up. Or the old saying that no one goes on it because it's too crowded. I think that real Disney fans enjoy it for what it is. Not for what some others wish it was. Since it was built it has been the same argument. It's a kid coaster. Imagine that a kid coaster in a place called Fantasyland pushing a theme of Snow White along side The Little Mermaid, Pooh, Peter pan, Small world and others. What were they thinking. Imagine making something that younger people can enjoy and not have their hearts in their throats. It is simply a matter of what we individually like. If the line is always long... hint: it isn't underappreciated by park guests. That simply doesn't make sense. They don't even promote it anymore.

People like myself that like both Disney and Uni, have no idea of how the theme runs true for the Hulk. I have never followed the character, nor have I ever ridden the ride so basically I have no opinion of it other then I don't like coasters of that type. Simple. We don't all like the same things. However, we should be able to distinguish and accept that Disney is not now and I hope never will be a Thrill Park. There are thrill parks. That is where we should go if we want thrills. If we want nice stories, unique experiences and family or individual fun for everyone, we go to Disney.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There is a common misperception that if you can see big steel, that it is simply an off the shelf design with a sign stuck on it. Because that is usually the case, thank you Six Flags.

I gotcha...longtime coaster fan/roadtripper/researcher...

The common misconception around here is that only one group of over budgeted kooks can build a good show. That is way more applicable to dark rides than coasters.

When somebody says hulk does nothing compared to Everest...the warning light goes off.

Everest...by design...is a fail. You can’t cut the main story piece out and think you’ve succeeded.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I gotcha...longtime coaster fan/roadtripper/researcher...

The common misconception around here is that only one group of over budgeted kooks can build a good show. That is way more applicable to dark rides than coasters.

When somebody says hulk does nothing compared to Everest...the warning light goes off.

Everest...by design...is a fail. You can’t cut the main story piece out and think you’ve succeeded.

Oddly enough Slinky Dog Dash is an awesomely themed bare steel coaster. Realism and bare steel. That's a hard one unless you go the California Screamin' route of it's a coaster themed to a coaster.

 

[matt9112]

Well...I’m a longtime invert Fan. Montu raptor and alpengeist May never leave my top 10. I’m biased

ever ride one of the many cloned classic compact inverts? god those are awful...lets put all these inversions in a footprint smaller than some flat rides i sware.

 

[BlakeW39]

Your opinion...no argument with that concept.

But about that opinion...”phenomenal”????

...gotta hear an explanation of that...

Are you a “low thrills” kinda cat? That would make sense.

Phenomenal? What do I think is phenomenal about 7 Dwarves? It's a great dark ride and a great (mild) coaster. It accomplishes the immersion into an iconic story with some thrilling elements effectively.

 

[BlakeW39]

BTMRR, Everest, the new potter coaster, California Screamin' and Mummy are examples of "Realism" artistic style. Hulk, Dueling Dragons, Manta, Mako, and all the Space Mountains are examples of "Impressionism". Realism shows you the visuals the artist wants you to see. Impressionism invokes a mental image of what the artist is trying to convey. Space Mt. is no more realistic in comparison to an actual rocket to space than Hulk is to a rampaging Hulk. But both look cool and are great attractions.
The art of coaster design is very much a legit art form in it's own right, and has it's own rules. Greatness is based in integration, kinetics, and sheer awe. I think Manta at SWO is a fantastic themed coaster and WAY better than Everest, but not as good as BTMRR. Manta nails everything it attempts to do. Great queue, the layout NAILS the underwater flight of the majestic Manta Ray, and the reveal with the splashing fly by is just cool.

Impressionism is encountered most often IRL in movie scores where they use music to invoke moods and imagery. Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel are the two most famous Impressionists in music. Here is an example.



And in painting you have Rembrandt (Realism)

Verses Impressionism, Claude Monet

Oh I gotchu, I agree that a coaster can be attractive without being realistic. But Manta more appealing than Everest? Eesh... I'm going to have to disagree hard on that one, Everest is the single most visually appealing coaster that I've every seen or heard of, and fully functioning with a massive yeti, it is one of the greatest rides Disney has every created. I would rank quite a bit above Thunder. Without the yeti it is still fantastic, but loses one of its core elements, and is still #1 for immersion.

 

[BlakeW39]

I gotcha...longtime coaster fan/roadtripper/researcher...

The common misconception around here is that only one group of over budgeted kooks can build a good show. That is way more applicable to dark rides than coasters.

When somebody says hulk does nothing compared to Everest...the warning light goes off.

Everest...by design...is a fail. You can’t cut the main story piece out and think you’ve succeeded.

In what way is Everest a fail...? Lol?

 

[flynnibus]

Phenomenal? What do I think is phenomenal about 7 Dwarves? It's a great dark ride and a great (mild) coaster. It accomplishes the immersion into an iconic story with some thrilling elements effectively.

Things it's does extremely well...

1 - Scale without a massive eyesore. The recessed into the ground allows more elevation without screwing up the overall scale of the attraction with relation to the rest of the land.

2 - Setting - The natural setting of the trees, grasses, and rockwork that make up not just the ride path, but the environment everyone NOT on the coaster sees is top notch. This again allows the attraction to be fully 360 exposed in the land without looking like a big mechanical nightmare

3 - Obscuring - Nearly everything about the 'infrastructure' of the ride is hidden away from both guests on and off the track.. again, allowing the 360 exposure in the land

4 - Intensity - For a land that needed an 'all ages' attraction, the ride strikes a good balance without being 'a kiddie ride adults fit in'

5 - Indoor Show Scene - still an impressive implementation of the hybrid AA figures. There is full surround... there is scale... you are in close proximity... the scene achieves a high element of immersion

6 - Effort put into having an integrated queue and cover that is integrated very well into the footprint and scene

The ride itself is fun for what it is... certainly a nice stepping stone coaster for the younger ones, and tame enough that the kids at heart aren't scared off... and no one is bored of the ride level.

 

[BlakeW39]

The ride actually accomplishes that by trying to make you feel Hulk's fury that starts with the launch. I believe that the goal of it is that Hulk is jumping quickly here and there not flying (that would be stupid). That's the reason that the ride is quite intense and many people are afraid to go on.

Yep, I was saying that the coasters track simulates flying instead of jumping. I was saying that the all of those loops mid air... better themed to a character that flies. To simulate Hulk, it would be best done by fast turns on the ground and tall leaps of varying sizes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In what way is Everest a fail...? Lol?

The main story element does not work and hasn’t since shortly after debut.

Did you ride it with it?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yep, I was saying that the coasters track simulates flying instead of jumping. I was saying that the all of those loops mid air... better themed to a character that flies. To simulate Hulk, it would be best done by fast turns on the ground and tall leaps of varying sizes.

It was designed in mid 90’s and constructed in 1998...those elements were the best B&M had to offer at that time and the goal was to showcase a modern machine with a little bit of theme tie in.

I can’t honestly believe some of the criticisms and really embarrassing double standards being applied here.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Everest looks great from a distance, but up close you can notice that the rock work is pretty awful. The theming before the lift hill is non-existent. Inside the mountain, in the dark sections, there is a ridiculous amount of light leakage. The bird on a stick is laughable. And the Yeti is broken.

That is why it's #7 of my favorite all time domestic themed coasters.

1. BTMRR
2. Mummy
3. Manta
4. Gringott's
5. Loch Ness Monster
6. Space Mountain (Disneyland)
7. Everest
8. Dueling Dragons
9. Mako
10. Hulk

Hulk is higher on my best steel coaster list than on my best themed coaster list. Out of those coasters Hulk would be #1 on my best steel coaster list. Or maybe Mako. Mako is just a ridiculously fun coaster. But Steel Vengeance and Millennium Force are much better than Hulk.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Things it's does extremely well...

1 - Scale without a massive eyesore. The recessed into the ground allows more elevation without screwing up the overall scale of the attraction with relation to the rest of the land.

2 - Setting - The natural setting of the trees, grasses, and rockwork that make up not just the ride path, but the environment everyone NOT on the coaster sees is top notch. This again allows the attraction to be fully 360 exposed in the land without looking like a big mechanical nightmare

3 - Obscuring - Nearly everything about the 'infrastructure' of the ride is hidden away from both guests on and off the track.. again, allowing the 360 exposure in the land

4 - Intensity - For a land that needed an 'all ages' attraction, the ride strikes a good balance without being 'a kiddie ride adults fit in'

5 - Indoor Show Scene - still an impressive implementation of the hybrid AA figures. There is full surround... there is scale... you are in close proximity... the scene achieves a high element of immersion

6 - Effort put into having an integrated queue and cover that is integrated very well into the footprint and scene

The ride itself is fun for what it is... certainly a nice stepping stone coaster for the younger ones, and tame enough that the kids at heart aren't scared off... and no one is bored of the ride level.

I agree with everything you said...a very reasonable assessment.

...but it doesn’t lead to “phenomenal”. That assessment was not accurate.

 

[BlakeW39]

The main story element does not work and hasn’t since shortly after debut.

Did you ride it with it?

Though I did not ride with a working Yeti, I can say that its static motion does not remove the story... it is still made clear that the Yeti is there and he still does his job. I hate that broken yeti more than anyone but to say it was the sole main story element is silly.

Everest looks great from a distance, but up close you can notice that the rock work is pretty awful. The theming before the lift hill is non-existent. Inside the mountain, in the dark sections, there is a ridiculous amount of light leakage. The bird on a stick is laughable. And the Yeti is broken.

That is why it's #7 of my favorite all time domestic themed coasters.

1. BTMRR
2. Mummy
3. Manta
4. Gringott's
5. Loch Ness Monster
6. Space Mountain (Disneyland)
7. Everest
8. Dueling Dragons
9. Mako
10. Hulk

Hulk is higher on my best steel coaster list than on my best themed coaster list. Out of those coasters Hulk would be #1 on my best steel coaster list. Or maybe Mako. Mako is just a ridiculously fun coaster. But Steel Vengeance and Millennium Force are much better than Hulk.

I don't even know what you're talking about man, Everest's rockwork is superb... and up close you can observe the intricacies of its real-to-life contruction. Thingsike light leakage... it's a mountain, when you have something that in itself is supposed tk look natural, stuff like this doesn't matter since a mountain isn't perfect. Now if Space Mountain has a similar problem, then it matters.

The lift hill is themed... the small temple are it takes you through... what you mean is that the track isn't which... I mean what do you want it themed to? It is themed to look like railroad, which it does, there is no more that should be done with it.

Take a look at that rock work:

 

[BlakeW39]

I agree with everything you said...a very reasonable assessment.

...but it doesn’t lead to “phenomenal”. That assessment was not accurate.

Your opinion, which I happen to strongly disagree with, but to eavh their own I suppose...

 

[HansGruber]

This is the problem, Hulk has nothing on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad, as it's a better ride than RnR or Hulk. It is an immersive and well themed coaster that accomplishes its goal very well. And that's key, each ride jas a goal, and the ride system should serve the goal of the attraction very well. Big Thunder's railroad track and train car is perfect for its goal of a wild ride through the desert wilderness. I couldn't think of a better system.

Hulk's goal is to put you in the place of the Incredible Hulk as you Hulk out and rage through New York. Is there a better way to do this? Yes, if its goal is to mske you feel likr a raging Hulk then it is best done through a series of leaps and strong turns, Hulk's ride doesn't do that, so if anything the ride would be better themed to make you feel like you're someone like Thor or the Silver Surfer.

My basic point is that Hulk, while bigger and faster than rides like Big Thunder, is not better, because being the biggest does not equate being the best. Cedar Point has roller coaster that in extremity put Hulk to shame - does that mean Millenium Force is better than Hulk? No. How a ride accomplishes its goal is how it should be judged - if it accomplishes what it seeks to in the best way possible. You can't penalize a ride for not having a different goal to be the biggest or fastest ride.

I'm not speaking negatively to the visuals, but don't pretend for a second that people ride Thunder Mountain for the ambiance; they ride it because it's a roller coaster!
ALL thrill rides at WDW are popular which is reflected in the massive wait times. If ambiance was the attraction, then the wait times for thrill rides wouldn't be as high.
There is a large subset of visitors who would never ride RnR, yet it's still one of the most popular rides in all of WDW. Why? Because it's a thrill ride.

 

[BlakeW39]

I'm not speaking negatively to the visuals, but don't pretend for a second that people ride Thunder Mountain for the ambiance; they ride it because it's a roller coaster!
ALL thrill rides at WDW are popular which is reflected in the massive wait times. If ambiance was the attraction, then the wait times for thrill rides wouldn't be as high.
There is a large subset of visitors who would never ride RnR, yet it's still one of the most popular rides in all of WDW. Why? Because it's a thrill ride.

You're right, but that doesn't mean ambiance doesn't play a part in why most ride it, or an even bigger part in why some ride it (including me). I mean the theme obviously plays some role, and that role will be more or less depending upon how observattive the rider is.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Though I did not ride with a working Yeti, I can say that its static motion does not remove the story... it is still made clear that the Yeti is there and he still does his job. I hate that broken yeti more than anyone but to say it was the sole main story element is silly.



I don't even know what you're talking about man, Everest's rockwork is superb... and up close you can observe the intricacies of its real-to-life contruction. Thingsike light leakage... it's a mountain, when you have something that in itself is supposed tk look natural, stuff like this doesn't matter since a mountain isn't perfect. Now if Space Mountain has a similar problem, then it matters.

The lift hill is themed... the small temple are it takes you through... what you mean is that the track isn't which... I mean what do you want it themed to? It is themed to look like railroad, which it does, there is no more that should be done with it.

Take a look at that rock work:

Look around at the rock work and snow at the broken track stop. It just doesn't look all that good. Certainly not Carsland/Pandora level. But yes, the money shot looks good. And I wasn't talking about the theming on the lift hill. I love the temple. Before the lift hill is mostly grass. It should have a sherpa base camp or something.

The problem with the light leaks is that the inside of the mountain isn't themed and the light leaks allows you to see that.

 

[HansGruber]

You're right, but that doesn't mean ambiance doesn't play a part in why most ride it...

Disagree 100%...for the reasons given above.

...or an even bigger part in why some ride it (including me). I mean the theme obviously plays some role, and that role will be more or less depending upon how observattive the rider is.

I would use the word some, incredibly loosely. I believe you are talking about a very small subset of people.

Ambiance can be a major attraction to rides that don't otherwise provide thrills. But for most thrill rides, it's the thrills themselves that provide the attraction.

 

[flynnibus]

Disagree 100%...for the reasons given above.



I would use the word some, incredibly loosely. I believe you are talking about a very small subset of people.

Ambiance can be a major attraction to rides that don't otherwise provide thrills. But for most thrill rides, it's the thrills themselves that provide the attraction.

They go hand in hand. Btmrr wouldnt be a coaster of any mention besides having three lift hills if it were an exposed six flags coaster.

Its just average - but put the whi
Ole package together and its unique